Are we creating a class system of hunting? If you can afford private property you get exclusive hunting rights and in many states, landowner tags, which equates to additional hunting opportunities. If you don't own the land and you have enough money you can sell out and lease the land. Leasing hunting land is a horrible precident to start. Leasing is gaining in popularity, and with it more and more hunters will lose hunting land that owners decide to lease. As hunting land continues to get developed leases will ultimately be subject to the law of supply and demand. Eventually, only the wealthiest hunters will be able to afford leases.
How about auctioning? Many states now offer at least one coveted big game tag to the highest bidder. While this does generate huge amounts of dollars for the conservation efforts, we are simaltaniously advocating class strata in hunting. If you got the most money, you get the tag. This practice is disgusting.
Buy it up and shut it down: Here in Montana a massive influx of out of state money is buying up private land and closing it off to hunting. California liberals, environmental whacko's, and anti hunters are purchasing land and closing of access. This is seriously damaging Montana FWP ability to manage game herds, and is yet another example of money limiting hunter access.
Nuainces of money and hunting: there are countless examples of money impacting hunting. How about the recent USO lawsuits. These suits are brought forth to cater to the richest clients, and have impacted the less fortunate local residents in a most negative way. How about these big game hunters on TV taking record book animals on routine? Frankly, I am much more impressed with Joe Schmoes' 6x6 on public land, than Chuck Adams world record bull.
Increased fees: Montana FWP has proposed fee increases. For me, my wife, and my oldest bot to apply for Moose, Goat, and Sheep tags the cost is a stagering $1350.00! The vast majority of Montanians cannot afford this application fees, thus only those with the money can. This clearly is creating a class system.
In conclusion, our biggest threat is a class system of hunting and everything that goes with it, not anti-hunters. I hope that some of you will give this thought, and ponder what can be done about it.

Money speaks a language that is seductive and intoxicating. Few can resist the enticement of its grasp. Of course not every lease is cemented in greed. I think your arguement has merit, I just don't know how to stop the actions that have been set in motion.

How many would be willing to boycott a few hunting seasons (fat chance)??? It would take a huge number of hunters to be effective. It might be easier to make a pig fly. Until supply outweighs demand I can't see a change.

That said, I too, hope we can find some solutions.

Based on your post, I can be very thankful to live in Missouri. My archery tags cost $19 for 2 deer and 2 turkey and the amount of public land Conservation Areas throughout the state provides many oppurtunities for hunting, sometimes without seeing other hunters for a souple days.

I feel for you and if I had to pay the staggering costs for tags in my area, I would probably give it up because its not worth that kind of money for me. I will stick to fishing when it starts costing me 1000+ for me and my family to hunt. Call me cheap but at some point it starts to get ridiculous.

Grandpa told me about the Land Baron scoundrels,,So what is next for bowhunters = $5,000 yearly fees[:'(] Forget about it!!
I hunt a public park with 500 acres with 500 other hunters now for appx. $25 a year and i am O.K. with this.
I often wonder why today Storage Facilities are in such big demand??Who can afford property?Let alone automobiles.
The cost for our nuclear submarines alone during the Cold war =$800,000,000,000
Hey, give me a break,, Let the damn Russians in at this price[:@]

Muley69 -

I can't help but nod my head as I read your post. I agree with what you said, but the question as to how to fix the damage that's already been done is a tough one. Hunting around where I live is not overly expensive yet. But I don't see it staying at reasonable prices forever. As land continues to be developed, hunting areas continue to dwindle It's a shame, but it's the truth. Private land ownership is the only cure, but at the same point, the biggest threat.

Something to think about next time I'm in the woods! That's for sure!

This is a real hot button topic on one of the Indiana based boards I frequent .

On one side is the everyday hunter who just wants to hunt in peace and is satisfied with what's out there . On the other is the trophy hunters and landowners who want a booner behind every bush on the pretext of a "quality hunting experience" . The trophy hunters don't seem to mind paying outrageous fees for this "quality experience" , and the landowners , along with brokers and outfitters , will be all too happy to sell it to them . The regular Joe in most cases couldn't or wouldn't pay what will be asked . How many non-resident tags are being auctioned on Ebay as we type ? Why is that even legal ?

I can't even picture the concept of having to draw for a tag just to be able to hunt in my own state , especially since I , not the non-resident , is paying for the resource management through my taxes . The idea that I might also have to drive to the other end of the state simply because I didn't draw the unit I live in is even more alien to me . I own property now , and I'll be damned before I'll drive somewhere else instead of hunting in my own backyard . I'd swallow my pride , high fence it , and buy some deer before I'll ever draw to hunt at home . Leasing isn't rampant here yet , but it's growing .

Could some of the folks living in those fabled trophy producing states give us your take on what it's like to be a resident hunter in such a state ?

I hate to say it but hunting as we know it is fast fading away guys. I am lucky here in WV it only cost me around 50.00 which allows me 3 deer with my bow one with a gun and one with a muzzleloader 1 bear and 2 turkeys. Now that said we dont have elk or moose or goats but it is a nice package. But even here the places to hunt are disappering fast if you dont own your own land.Yes MONEY speaks too loudly everywhere. Just think about lets take Texas how much does a full grown beef bring on the open market and how much did it cost to raise that beef and get it to market. Now take a deer yes you planted special food and stopped anyone from shooting small bucks for a few years. Now comes the trophy hunter looking to score on a 170 class deer he is will to pay over 3000.00 dollars for that try and if you are looking for a 200 class you can get it for a few thousand more. Now what would you raise.And its not just Texas it is growing by leaps and bounds everywhere.
Where does it all end? Well it ends when we have priced the average hunter out when the only thing he can hunt is small game if he can even find a place to do that. Yes we are our own worst enemy's ever striving to take the trophy to take an even larger animal and looking down on and even talking trash about the hunter who takes a spike or 4 point or even an 8 point that is only 2 1/2 years old.
Who's destroying hunting we are. And of course all of this is only one old mans opinion. Roy

Well you are right to an extent. Hunting is becoming a class system to an extent. However, with as much public ground as exists in this country, no one is going to ever be without a place to hunt. The wealthier may be hunting the better properties but like you said that's capitalism (supply and demand) at it's finest. If you want to be able to hunt the good properties then you have the oppurtunity to get out there and work hard and do that. You are complaining because you don't want to have to work for anything. You want it to just be handed to you. You are basically saying that farmers shouldn't have the right to lease their own property. Well I quite obviously disagree with you whole heartedly. If I get a chance to lock a prime property up for myself then you can bet that I will do so. I have worked hard and had the drive to put myself in a situation that I will be able to afford to lease hunting properties or go on hunting trips etc. You have the same oppurtunity to do so. The days of the free ride is ending. In the future you are going to have to pay your due share, hunt public ground, or quit. If you quit, you were never hunter in the first place IMHO. It's a free country. People are free to shoot record book animals on video. If you don't like it then don't watch it. Some states offer 1 tag up for auction. One stinking tag. Like that's really affecting hunters in general. Look at the other side of that coin. How much wildlife can be benefitted by the sale of that one tag. Most of the time these tags sell for enough to finance a game study or put in a series of food plots or buy a new piece of equipment. So what about the positives of the purchase of the one tag. We already have a welfare system in hunting. It's called public ground. If you can not afford to lease or buy then the state has ensured that you wouldn't be without and provided you with public ground to hunt. Now you are saying that isn't good enough and you should get to hunt private ground, that in most cases you did absoutely nothing to earn the right to, for free. Well, I guess I am a little different. I was taught growing up to pay my way. I don't expect to be able to go to a property that someone sweated and toiled over and sacrificed and paid good money for and then have the same rights that they do. I don't expect anyone to give anything to me. If I want something, I will pay for it. Hunting is a business for many people. Just like any other business if you want the premier services, then you have to pay accordingly for them. You can't expect them to be given to you!

You bring some very valid points Muley. Most of which are very tough to dispute and if fact, I find to be very correct.
Luckily in Maine and New Hampshire there are large tracts of private multi purpose lands (mostly paper company owned) and national forrest that is open to the public. As for private land that is being developed or closed to hunting, I see that being a real and growing problem. New Hampshire is the fastest growing state in the country. What is left of avaiable land is being gobbled up for develpoment and the influx of people have led to the closing of a good portion of privately owned land that had previously been oped to the public(In New Hampshire if the land isn't posted anyone can hunt on it.) Unfortunately alot of the "sportsmen" in the southern part of the state are less then respectfull of others land. On our property we've had vandilism, trash (large amounts of trash) left behind and because of diffrences in hunting stratagies ( I prefer to bow hunt out of a tree stand and the neighbors prefer to hit the woods with an army and drive every square inch on land) it has lead to us posting the 50 acres of land that has been open since my parents bought it about 20 years ago. Now the land is hunting by written permission only and we are very selective on who is allowed to hunt the property. I'm not saying this to be the case everywhere but as our population in New Hampshire grows so dose the amount of bad apples. Although the number of bad apples may be relatively few the damage they do effects us all. Our land is on a lake and we had two campers on the property, both of which fell victem to vandals. First durring the winter snowmobilers broke in and stole most anything of vaule. then the following year all the windows were shot out of the campers. When the second incident occured the doors were unlocked because we anything of vaule had been stolen or taken home. Aparently this must have upset the individuals so they felt they had to destroy my camp. It's $#!^^y and now everyone pays because of these jerks.

The best solution I can come up with is to buy some private land. Form a club of close knit friends and pool rescources. This may not work where you have to draw tags but if residents can just buy tags this is the best permanent solution( although it will only add to the overall problem).

This to me looks to be the classic catch 22

Bravo Silentassassin!!! You summed up my thoughts exactly. But then again maybe we are just a couple rich, snobby bastards!!!


Bottom line guys..........You've got to pay to play!!!!