Silentassassin ,
hunting is becoming a class system largely because of attitudes like yours , only the deep pockets get to hunt prime land . BTW , unlike the West most Eastern states are less than 5% public land , usually scattered into lots of small crowded pockets statewide . You also fail to take into account that the wildlife being hunted belong to ALL who live there , not just the landowners . Take away the wildlife and any lease will die .

Granted , landowners provide the majority of the habitat , but that shouldn't be an open license to rob the public that's paying for the game management that makes their "pay honeyhole" possible in the first place through their taxes and license purchases . Don't even try that static about QDM created the honeyhole , because that's bullchips . Without the publicly owned wildlife that QDM program would be totally useless since there would be no wildlife to attract .

Pride and greed is what's killing hunting , your post is a living testament to that . In the name of pride and greed we're killing something we love for a few miserable pieces of silver . [&o]

This is a very good subject and one that I'm dealing with here in n.w. Penna. I have a partner in my business who refuses to ask permission to hunt on anybody's land. He wants to either lease it or else complain about there not being any property to hunt. I live in the same area he does and have more than 700 acres of farmland that I have permission to hunt. All of this land is posted and when I asked permission they all told me the same thing. The signs are for thos people who wont ask permission. All they want is to know who's on their land and when. One of the famrs my son and Ihunted exclusively for 5 years was grabbed up by 4 guys form Pittsburgh who offered him $1,000.00 each to hunt his land. They then went in and bull dozed a mile long road for him to get to his fileds complete with drains and gravel! Now the other farmers are looking for their cash cow and my own partner may end up being it! I'm a guy who has hunted my whole life and who enjoys it but I hate to see money make the difference of who can go and who can't.

This whole "the deer belong to the public" agenda is ignorant. The deer belong to noone, they belong to the land they inhabit.

Kevin,

We obviously have differing opinions. You think you are owed the right to hunt and I think if I want the right then I should expect to pay for it. Are you saying that landowners shouldn't have the right to restrict access to their land. If so then are you advocating taking away one of the most basic freedoms of this country. If a landowner does choose to limit access to land then it really is none of your business whether he does so for personal or monetary reasons. In most situations landowners spend far more than the state does on wildlife habitat anyway. The state merely subsidizes the landowners expense. Unless the landowner has high fences the game is free to roam on or off the property at leisure. Therefore, hunters are paying for the right to have access to the land where the animal may or may not be. Every state that I know of thinks that is an acceptible way to administer game and fish laws and restrictions. So while the game may be the states, the land is the individuals and the landoners rights prevail over the wildlifes in this scenario. Again, I ask you if you are saying that landowners shouldn't have the right to limit access to their own land that they bought and paid for with their own blood, sweat, and tears? Also, why do you think you should be given something freely that others had to work and sacrifice for? Finally, would you care to list the other things that you feel like you are owed by society that you should not have to pay or work for?

Yes they do belong to the land they inhabit BUT........they also can move to other lands if they want.

Although my side of Illinois is not as deer populated as western Illinois, the greed factor is beginning to take hold. For example a non-resident started leasing 900 acres last year near my hunting area, he then sold 3 guys hunts for $3,600 a piece...which helped pay for part of his lease costs. In my experience, most land is leased by hunters to keep others out so that they can have the land to hunt by themselves.

As a side note, a group of outfitters in Illinois recently went together and have filed a lawsuit in Federal court challenging the state's caps on non-resident bowhunting permits. This is very similiar to what USO did in Arizona. My problem with this is not non-resident hunters........but that the outfitters think their ability to make a buck is more important than the state's ability to govern our herd, and allow taxpaying resident hunters more opportunities.

O.K. now i am Confused Silent//Double,,, Are you both saying "Survival of the Fittest"??The 1st law of the Jungle??Lord of the Flies scenario??

Katbones, we are saying, if you want something bad enough, work for it

We all have the right to drive a car if we choose...

But we cannot all affort Bentley's now can we. We still get from A to B, just maybe not as comfortably or quickly...but we get there.

Too many people sit and bitch about the loss of hunting land without ever asking permission, or even attempting to hunt public lands.

Preach on Silent Assassin!

My grandfather told me 25 years ago that pretty soon there would be no place to hunt and no quality hunting. He was way off. I have permission to hunt on many properties, I hunt public land, have leased property and probably will lease or own in the future. It is a matter of what you choose to do. I make plenty of money now but that wasn't always the case. I sacrificed elsewhere to have hunting money. I drove a lesser vehicle, had a lesser house and just plain lived cheap. Hunting was more important to me than other things. Look at drinking and smoking alone. There are people out there that spend several thousand dollars a year on smokes and booze. Don't be pissed at me because I just wrote a $6000 dollar check to an outfitter unless you know what I sacrificed to do it. Maybe you couldn't write that check becuase you smoked or drank it away. Maybe you bought a new truck while I still drive my '97 GMC with 120,000 miles. I simply chose to go on a 10 day hunt in British Columbia instead of doing other things.

I hunted public land in northern WI the last 5 years and took 4 good bucks, the 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 yr old are even on my wall. That hunting didn't cost me a thing and I didn't see another hunter for three years. I am a trophy hunter and still can find quality hunting on public land or in a suburban area just by asking permission. We have never had it as good as right now for "quality" hunting. We have more and larger game than ever before. However don't expect every Tom, Dick, and Harry to let you hunt their property. Take a look around and see what opportunties are out there. I was sitting in a tree stand this morning and thought of a new client I have with 80 acres in very good location. Guess who will be getting a call this afternoon and a thank you letter tomorrow whether they give me permission or not. Don't blame "the man" for keeping you down, you have options.

[&:] O.K., Muley says we are becoming a rich and poor class society,, Capitalism vs. Communism and the old Bolshevik Revolution all over again. Hey, history repeats itself.
Now i am not advocating throwing over the Czars,, i am saying that when you are driving your Bentley out the driveway,remember, i helped build and pave this PUBLIC road.
This "Privatization" of America is a double - edged sword (pen)= Mayor Daley just spent 2 weeks in China to drum up more business for the city of Chicago,, hey were an international island now.So what if i choose to drink Jagermeister and smoke Cuban cigars,, your argument sounds all too HOLLOW to me.