RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

I'm not for censoring opinions. If a person gets knocked for shooting a small buck, maybe he'll think for a minute, why others might think that's not the best thing to do. On the other hand, I understand that all newer bowhunters are happy to shoot almost anything and I clearly see why they do. I always congratulate them and usually at a later date, mention how nice it would be to shoot a really big buck (which they all agree to). Then I explain how that can happen.

Guys who have been bowhunting for many years and have had a lot of success, like myself, generally wait for older deer. This desire to wait for bigger deer, didn't happen over night. It was a gradual process that generally took a few years and some success. However it's all relative. In the area I hunt, only about 15 of every 100 bucks, make it to 2.5 years old. If you wait for a 3.5 year old to walk by, you may not shoot one buck for every 10 years of heavy hunting. I doubt many are willing to go this long without shooting a buck. I never shoot 1.5 year bucks, but I always shoot 2.5 year bucks. Unfortunately, try as I may, I cannot get my buddies to pass on the 1.5 yr bucks. If the mindset could be changed, then I'd up my limits also.

One of the great benefits of these forums is to help people see all sides. Many new-to-bowhunting people, will form and/or change their bowhunting opinions based on what they learn here. I think it helps with their evolution as bowhunters.

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

Thanks Bowfanatic for posting those links. Thats my point guys, I'm all for QDM but that's me. I didn't start out as a youngster caring about QDM. I had to evolve into it. I hunt primarily Pa and you guys know that before antler restrictions, basket racks were the normal and truly nice bucks were rare indeed.

As what I hope is my last word on this subject let me summarize.

I don't think the beginning of this post was actually about QDM. It was about "us" as a forum, beating up a guy, who was proud of his bow-kill, because some members thought he was to small racked. Alot of us hunt on public land, we can make our effort to pass smaller bucks, but the truth is that the 100 other guys in them woods are going to shoot those bucks. I passed up 6 legal bucks opening day of rifle last year. On tuesday (2nd day of season) my cousin shot a 7PT that I passed on a day earlier (I also had this buck at 12 yards in bow season). He was proud and very excited. It was a trophy for him. All we can do as hunters is make sure that the animal we harvest is one we are proud of.

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

Please don't. I know it may seem like you've been singled out here and that's not my intension but you've provided the perfect opportunity to make a point. Over the last week you've shot 3 bucks. You started with a 4 pointer, then a spike, and then a dandy 9 pointer. Seeing bucks like this isn't uncommon. You'd also been offered shots at plenty of does which you chose to pass on. By practiceing QDM you'd likely have the same if not more venision in the freezer. You'd have helped the herd by thinning (by my practices 2 does) and you'd still have a dandy 9 pointer to your credit. If it's legal (and from what I can see it's only legal to shoot two bucks in Ma per season*) you have the right to shoot the first two bucks but it dose nothing to help the herd. IMO it's a selfish act. By shooting two does and letting the two smaller bucks walk you help the herd by taking out two animals that will likely produce 4 off spring. It leaves more food for the deer herd and it will help to make the rut more "pronounced" with a more definative start and stop as opposed to a long drawnout and less pronounced rut.

Practicing QDM is an option but it benefits all hunters. It is beneficial for the herd and the health of the herd as well.



*4. BAG AND POSSESSION LIMITS:

(a) The seasonal statewide bag limit is 2 ANTLERED deer, and as many antlerless deer as the hunter possesses valid permits and tags for. The seasonal bag limit is thus determined by the number of valid deer tags in the hunter's possession. Hunters may possess antlerless permits for multiple deer management zones or multiple permits for the same deer management zone. Two "antlered-only" tags are attached to the hunter's hunting or sporting license. Antlerless deer tags are attached to the accompanying antlerless permit.

This can be found @
http://www.mass.gov/dfwele/dfw/dfw_p...guage.htm#deer

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

I don't mind the concept of QDM ,
I just wish it's diciples would quit trying to get our DNR to implement it statewide on public land . [:@] Even if they had the funds available , which they don't and never will , I feel that QDM is the perogative of those private landowners who want to practice it on their own property .

I avoid preaching my personal methods to others and just try to be as helpful as I can to them , although I do try to keep less informed sportsmen informed when I think there's changes that may affect them .

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

[quote]ORIGINAL: Badatta2d

That is what I was getting at in my original post. Be happy with what you harvest and give it the respect it deserves. Also, give your fellow hunters the respect they deserve. Suggestions and tips are always welcome. It's just that QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth when RAMMED down your throat.

I am a meat hunter through and through. I have yet to harvest a buck as I have yet to see a big one before I see a big doe in a season. I have heard countless remarks about does being easy to shoot, etc over the years.......from buck hunters with empty freezers!

Apparently this post stirred things up a little, but, hey...such is life. Just be respectful of your fellow hunters. After all, they guy you insult may be the buy that helps you drag your deer out of the woods...

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

Well guys, I see both sides of the story here and agree with both.

First, QDM is NOT about growing big antlers, it is about growing a healthy deer herd! It is about managing doe numbers to keep them in a close ratio with buck numbers. This puts more pressure on bucks to find does. When the buck to doe ratio is 1 buck for 10 doe, every little 1-1/2 year old buck has a chance to breed a doe. With the buck to doe ratio reduced, there is more competition between bucks which means that the more healthy and more dominant bucks are the ones breeding the does. This means that the best genetics are being carried through (genetics doesn't just mean antlers). Also, reducing herd numbers takes a huge strain off the enviroment! There are too many deer in most parts of the country now. Heck, I know the deer herd was predicted to be between 75 and 85 deer per square mile in my neck of the woods a few years ago. This many deer can do a number on plants and crops. Getting the number down takes that strain off these plants (deer have actually killed off entire species of plants across the country), and it also puts less presurre on the deer during the winter when food becomes scarce.

The meat hunter statement swings both ways. Sure, there are guys out there who are in it for the meat, they couldn't care less about antlers (my grandfather was that way up until last year). The point is, when people start calling themselves meat hunters even though they are passing up does to shoot immature bucks is a complete contradiction! One thing that I see alot of is these guys who won't buy a doe tag, but when they shoot a small buck, they declare themselves meat hunters. This is ridiculous, plain and simple. If you are a meat hunter, get as many doe tags as your state permits, shoot the does and pass on the small bucks, who knows, maybe a big buck will walk by. You could be passing up the future world record.

Now, I will say that I have no problem what so ever with a guy who goes out and shoots a small buck as long as he is happy with it and proud of it. If he is proud of his deer, who am I to rain on his parade? What I don't understand is the guys who go out and shoot a small buck, and when they tell everyone about it, they throw in the "I'm a meat hunter" comment. This is a lack of respect for the animal, it is almost like saying "well, I am not proud of him, but he is food". I think all hunters should shoot deer that they are proud of.

As far as people raining on others parades, I don't see that too much on here, and when it does pop up, it is usually from someone who is only posts to cause trouble, or someone who is new to the board and doesn't know how things work around here. Also, some people may shove QDM down others throats, but I don't see it much on here. QDM is something that all hunters should atleast respect. It is about giving something back to the woods/deer! It is basically a big "thank you" to the deer for all the thrills and excitement that they have given us.

I personally practice QDM, but that is just my preferance. I have private property to do it on, and it has made a huge differance in the health of the deer herd! I have already passed up my fair share of bucks this year waiting for the biggun. I wanted meat, so I sent an arrow through a big doe on the first Monday of season. I understand that not everyone has the land to practice QDM but it works on public land as well as private. Pennsylvania went to state wide antler restrictions and this year is incredible. The amount of bucks is up, the buck to doe ratio is down, the deer are healtier, the land isn't being destroyed by deer, and guess what, it has also helped increase rutting activity which creates better opportunities for hunters.

Like I said, I see both sides of the story. My point I am trying to make is that QDM ISN'T ABOUT ANTLERS, ITS ABOUT THE HEALTH OF THE HERD!!!!!!!!!!

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

What the hell does that mean? As long as a 4pt goes close to 140? You have to remember that a 4pt in eastern standards is a 2 pt your western count. A 4pt is a 2X2 and sure isn't going to be close to 140. I'm assuming your talking an 8 pt eastern count, a 4pt western count? Do you want to rethink your answer? I'm refering to a tiny little 2X2 measuring 20" and a 150 class buck....I don't even think you'd shoot the 2pt.(western count) You western boys!![8D]:eek:

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

My 2 cents on QDM:

I think it is a great thing, in the right circumstances. For those groups that have 300, 500, 1000 acres where they can control the hunters, it is great. For those (me) that have 20 ac. surrounded by some private but mostly state land it WILL NOT WORK. I let the spike or fork horn go by, somebody is going to take a whack at it. Not saying I would always shoot a deer because I think someone else is going to get it, but it's the reality.

Athough the "real" reason for QDM may be herd health, the side benefit is larger antlers and that is why most buy into it, IMO.

As for "bashing" people for their harvest - I think it's assinine. If anything they should be congatulated and then maybe a question could be asked. But even then, why. Why rain on someone's parade. My 1st deer was a small (real small) doe. Was I proud/happy - you bet. Would I shoot that deer today - no. My first (only) bow kill was a nice fork horn. If someone started to give me sh*t about it I would think/know that they are a real a-hole.

Maybe we should start bashing those who shoot the huge 8-10 pointers, seeing how they are robbing the good genetics for the deer herd????;);););)

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

Well said Buck Magnet. You saved me alot of trouble of having to type a lot of that :D. Although I am new to this forum, I am not new to how people react to other people on forums. Shoving your point of view down other people's throats only creates bashing wars in threads. I am not stating that anyone has done that because I would have to do some serious reading to find out. I am just saying that before you point the finger at someone for doing something that you don't necessarily agree with, you need to see it from there perspective. As was stated before, shooting a small buck might be something that one person would never consider doing, but for someone else, that might be a trophy. To criticize them for doing that is just plain wrong. On the other hand, to pass-up 3 does and shoot a spike and say you are a hunting for the meat, unless you don't have antlerless tags, deserves some criticism. Just remember, a trophy deer is different for everyone.

Btw Buck Magnet, good to hear about how good the deer population is up in Indiana. Down southwest of you, here in Fayette and Greene counties, we are having a hard time finding the deer. The deer population is way down to where no one is seeing any deer and most aren't seeing any big bucks. They really need to look into how they implement the QDM in the different parts of PA.

RE: QDM leaves a bad taste in your mouth
 

BM-very well put.