cardeer

All I have to say I'm part American indian and proud of it. Most people including myself would not last a year in the world of the Indian back years ago. Why the europeans would of starved if it was not for the indians that greeted them in the beginning.They were survival smart not a college educated dummy like alot of these all brains and no common sense people running this country

Katbones

My intention on this thread was not to offend or belittle any race or creed. I was coming from the spirit of "Legends Larger Than Life". Like Adams and Muley69, i too have experienced many different cultures and ways of life and these have shaped me. My heroes are not only cowboys, but a vast array of super-humans, some real, most fantasy.
Very difficult to Communicate what a persons beliefs should be, when we lack imagination.

BOWFANATIC

Not being of Native American descent from your country (prarie indians) I can only go by what I've read in books about their culture , as I assume your basing your opinions on (by book) , I'd be very interested in reading the books which describe how they "routinely burned praries and forest and slaughtered fleeing animals , which were not used".

Running bison off cliffs (which I have read) was done on rare occasion , but I find it pretty ingenious myself , and I might add that they used everything from the meat , the hides , and the horns , to the hoofs , and the bones. Very unlike the white man who slaughtered thousands upon thousands for the hide and some meat but left most to rot and is the very reason the bison were approaching extinction.

Was there one reasonable "question" that was awaiting an answer?
"Idealist"? I've been called many things , but that one my friend goes with me like oil mixes with water!

With the replies you made above , "shooting from the hip" is exactly what I would call it! All that education and you still have an apparent hatred towards the American Indian.


Sorry , been there , done that! Thats the very reason I dont participate in the politics section. I know you have your brotherhood over there.

Rich Baker

I got to say something her I understand where muley69 is comming from. Now I know not all native americans are this way but out west here it make a sportsmen sick to see whats going on.
First, washington state , Indians herd 178 elk in a public hunting area not on a reservation and kill the entier herd. They cut the heads off the bulls and took the calf to eat and left the rest the year 1995 Nere forks Washington I saw what they left fish and game did nothing. next year the Oylimpic pennisula was closed to hunting on the east side due to it became indian hunting grounds. trible counsule said if it did not happen they would kill the elk anyway so the white man wouldn't get them. they got there way.
1996, Forks area tribe starts killing whales again for some way of life thing. that turned out to be hog wash as the started selling whale burgers at road side stands. just antoher way of getting money from wildlife.
1997 gillnetted fish from the ho River about 400 lbs are dumped off a logging road because they didn't sell them at there road side stands. these fish are Native and endagered [:@]
Oregon,
columbia river is chocked with gill net from the tribes many fish are for sale at the boat doc. my seasone is about a week because I am only allowed 10 per year and these guy have no limmit. its one thing if your going to eat them its another if you are just selling them.
Deschutes river.
Border of warm springs res.
they claim they own the river (they don't and its in writeing) the res police came took my fly rod and gear including my drift boat. and gave me a 500 dollare fine. I hired a attorney and fought it and won there judge was like Oh yea you were on public land> I said I want my gear back and they said what gear ???[:@] Got ripped off by the trible police [:@] dang you would think they have enuff money with all the casinos. never got my drifter back but I saw it on the res. if it ever comes off I'll have the cops on them.
So yes I can see why people feel the way they do. It was a long time ago and I think that in this day in age they should live and follow the law the rest of us have to.

logs

The American indians were not the great hunters and trackers of the TV created myths. They did alright for themselves in most cases and it is interesting how they did develop the weapons and tool that they used. They were not far removed from the stone age in that regard as late as the 1800's.
If you're interested in learning more about the indians that inhabited the area west of the Mississippi you might want to read the Journals of Lewis and Clark ( Bernard DeVoto/Mariner Books). They have been reprinted in part, with thier spelling errors and all covering the greatest undertaking of their time in North America.
The greatest bowmen in history were most likely the English archers followed closely by the Asians. It had more to do with the equipment that they each were able to develop that provided them with the opportunity to advance their skills than did their cultures.

Arthur P

College boy. Product of the revisionist historian era, no doubt. They indians are LUCKY they were conquered by us?? Spoken like a true believer in Manifest Destiny. Or Darwinism at the very least. Survival of the fittest.

The Japanese used the same rationale to legitimize their WWII campains in the Pacific. I wonder.... If the Germans had finished their work on the atomic bomb before we did and Nazism spread across the world; if they constantly told us how inferior and backward we were before they arrived to help us; how many of us would consider ourselves lucky to have been conquered by such a technologically advanced people?

All a matter of perspective, don'tcha know. History is written by the victors.

As a person of mixed blood, I don't harbor any romaticized, idealist notions about the lives of my Native American ancestors. I don't harbor any romanticized, idealist notions about the lives - or motivations - of my white ancestors either. The truth is never pretty.

Greavous

The indians got screwed just like everyone else who had lost a war. When a country went to war and won they took the land as their own. History proved this true with few exceptions. One exception is the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong but excluding taking this land from the British and Indians, we have always returned our spoils of war land wise. Two world wars worth of victorys and we even rebuilt their economy before we gave it all back. The Brittish, French, Russians, and lets not forget the Germans all intended to take the land to start with.

I guess my point is that was all a long time ago and I nor my family had anything to do with killing the Indians or owned any slaves. I don't think we own them any money for what had happened to their people either. I do think we should all remember what has happened and learn about our country's history but it was all in a different time without Walmarts and gas stations, survival of the fittest!

wihunter402

Well said. Here in WI they can shoot all the deer they want and spear all the walleyes in the lakes if they so choose. They claim treaty rights. Well I think if they are going to go with "treaty rights" then they should use the tools available to them when the treaty was signed. Nobody back in the 1800's thought that there would be spears 12" wide with 10 steal points and 2,000,000 candle power spot lights for finding the fish. Let them use sharpened sticks and wax candles if they want to spear unlimited. Otherwise they should have to follow the same bag limits that the rest of us TAX PAYING citizens of the United States have to follow. Either that or we should take away their casinos.

Double Creek

I will admit that I am not well educated in the subject, I have read books, etc, but that makes me no expert.

I do not buy into the hollywood indian. I believe that were probably much more savage than they are petrayed. But, I do believe we took their land. We changed their entire way of life. Yes, it was better us than germany, but 2 wrongs doesn't make a right. I think we owe them something, not sure what, but something. Sure, the reservations from what I have heard is drunken wasteland. But like others pointed out, we put them their and helped push them towards that lifestyle. It is definately a darkside of America's past that will be revisited in the future with some form of "payback".

My Great Great Granmother was 1/2 Cherokee. So, I guess I still have a little of that blood in me, perhaps that is the source of my sympathy.

tazimna

Living in an area that is surrounded by 3 reservations(1 is even a soverign nation), we get a first hand glimpse into the indian way of life and culture. We see as many "bad" whites as we see "bad" natives. These folks have been dealt a tough hand wether by choice or being enforced on them. We can't be responsible for things that happened 100 years ago. Should we be responsible to reimburse the colored folks because of slavery to? I think not. In our area, the natives are torn between trying to keep their culture alive, or for the most part give it up and join the "modern" world. There's pro's/ con's to that. Those that try to make something of themselves, are usually scorned by the tribe and generally leave to live elsewhere. Those that try to retain their culture, are scorned by society and generally live a life of squaller. But it does come down to choices. In our area, much economic growth has occured in the past few years on these reservations. Unfortunatly, much of the new business has failed due to the tribe members NOT wanting to work a so called full time job, or don't want to get tied down to something. In my area, ANY native can go to college with tuition paid for by the tribe and state of MN. Very few make the choice to do so. But then our area tribes have a high school grad rate of 18-25%, so it's tough to expect them to deal with higher education. Many business's on the rez, fail because "outsiders" are needed to run them due to no qualified local folks. So then the tribe gets mad and shuts them down for not hiring locals. It's quite a game to see happen for sure. But I still think it comes down to choices for everyone. You/your life is what you want it to be. Race should not have anything to do with it, but for many it does. Taz