RE: using a crossbow?
 

Dave, just in case you have not yet figured it out, you are wasting your time here. Some people just cannot be swayed.

Stealthy, why is it when crossbows are the topic anything goes. Only elitists are against them right?

You sure are an elitist when it comes to high fences! Please explain how you can go both ways?

The truth is that neither the fences or the crossbows are more detrimental to hunting than the other.

Crossbows just need to be in their place.....gun season.

Another thing...I will admit that a large number of compound/traditional bowhunters do NOT practice nearly enough to be proficient either.

If you have a good suggestion to remedy this problem, I am all ears!

I have tried and tried to come up with a solution to that problem, and cannot get anywhere with it.

Manditory testing? Targets are not the same as the real thing. Plus, we hardly need more regulation from any entity. Open the door, and it could get ugly.

I admit stepping into this debate in misdstream, but I am going to ask you another question. No animosity, just looking for an answer.

You use a crossbow. Why? If it is due to a physical impairment, I can understand, and am sorry to hear you are not 100%.

If you are healthy physically, why would you possibly want to use a crossbow. They have a range no greater than a compound, they deliver similar energy.

They are NOT as accurate when dealing with a skilled archer. They are loud. They are extremely cumbersome. They are as ugly as my 6th grade music teacher!

The only possible reason I have been able to come up with is that they are easier to become marginally proficient with. Less practice is needed to obtain hunting scenario accuracy.

Why?

RE: using a crossbow?
 

Wrong. It's an individuals right and really their duty to speak up against something they feel is good for archery.Doesn't mean everyone will agree however.

Actually I think he said he'd hunt in a really large high fenced operation.

Actually he shoots a Traditional just swithched from a compound acouple seasons ago.

Sorta of like a compound compared to a recurve right?

RE: using a crossbow?
 

Live2- yes I am serious. As for what you hunt with, I could care less.... As long as you use it in the proper season for whatever weapon you're using.

Z- I cannot disagree with you on any point you're making about compounds. However, they were legalized long ago and there's nothing anyone can do about it now. It is interesting though that all the arguments that were made against them in the beginning have proven out to have been 100% on the mark. The very fact you can make any comparison between compounds and crossbows are proof of it.

Since you obviously missed it the first time, I'll repeat. The flip side to your argument is, if compounds are that easy to use, then there is no reason to shoot a crossbow.

And remember - Not exactly everyone in the woods is shooting a compound. Let's hear how favorably crossbows compare with recurves, longbows and selfbows.

Crossbows are legal in my state during the general season. We have almost one month of bow season here and crossbows are NOT legal, except for the disabled.

Again, my opinion is if it's held like a gun, aimed like a gun and discharged like a gun - regardless of it's effective range, what projectile it fires or whether it goes BANG or not - then it belongs in gun or general season.

Since I've just restated FOUR points I'd made earlier, then we're obviously doing nothing but chasing our own tails and not getting anywhere. There is no point in continuing this debate.

RE: using a crossbow?
 

But what will that do ? Makes no sense that because one person or a very few people abuse a weapon or misuse it that all of them be moved to another season so they can be misused and abused there ????? Thats ridiculous thinking.

So the whole base of your argument to not lot crossbows into archery season is based on an incident where someone shot themselves ? Again, moving crossbows to gun season would more the accidents to gun season - you've fixed nothing at all. The core problem anyway is the person behind the weapon, NOT the weapon itsself.

Accidents happen a LOT. There was a guy this year stabbed himself with an arrow while stalking elk I believe. Had that arrow been clipped into the channel of a crossbow, it wouldn't have happened the way it did. BAN COMPOUNDS FROM ARCHERY SEASON. Right ?

So now its how many people love them enough to put down their guns to use them ? Okay, put compounds in rifle season and watch what happens. Remember, lets all be 2 season hunters - Fred Bear's genius idea to sell people on the idea of archery ? Lots of compounders still 2 season hunt and if forced to choose would drop the compounds.


If you don't think thousands do that with compounds, you're extremely naive. If this is now your argument, again, lets move compounds to a season where "they belong" too, because lots of compounders do the same thing.

Besides, I doubt you could ever prove that crossbow hunters buy their weapons on Thursday and hunt on Saturday - we all know, again, that this reflects the hunter, not the weapon of choice.

Big Country - Some people cannot be swayed ? Really ? 2 years ago I argued the exact same things Dave is - and I mean EXACTLY. But I was wrong, and I came to ealize that my argument was flawed and full of holes. Everything I could say against crossbows also applied to compounds almost straight across, to longbow and recurves to a lesser extent.

I don't want to shift the subject, open another one on high fences and I'll explain exactly why. Look up what the definition of a bow is. Look up the history of a compound, a recurve, a longbow and crossbow and tell me which is the new kid on the block. Look up any negatives at all on crossbows - you won't find any valid ones. The same cannot be said for canned killing.

CWD disagrees. ARA's disagree. So that is not truth, nowhere near it.

Why do you use a compound ? If its due to a physical impairment, I can understand, and am sorry to hear you are not 100% and are unable to draw a bow at 100% its power, without sights, without releases, without rests and cables and pulleys and all the other gadgets. Right ?

So compounds are that much better ? Maybe they DO need their own season based on that they are a superioir weapon and don't present enar the challenge and a significant increase in advantage for filling a tag ? BTW, same arguments can be used when comparing compounds to longbows .... loud, heavy, ugly, awkward ......


BINGO !!!! We have a winner !! Thats EXACTLY why people use compounds instead of rifles ! Its also why people choose crossbows and compounds over longbows and recurves, and why people choose recurves and longbows over self bows, and self bows over spears, and spears over butter knives etc etc

But regardless of what you choose to hunt with in archery season (Arkansas for example) you still gotta get within 20 yards of a deer, a little less for trad shooters, a farther perhaps for compounders .... but theres not a huge influx of slob hunters in the field, theres not a huge ammount of additional deer killed, fewer tags, shorter season etc etc. It don't happen, hasn't here anyway, so why micro-regulate something that isn't a probelm to begin with ? As I have debated in the past, IF archery season is ever threated by too many hunters, fewer tags, lesser seasons because of weapon type, the only FAIR thing to do is break it down farther between trad and tech equipment. Compouders don't want to hear that ... but it is an undeniable true.

RE: using a crossbow?
 

Yes, I do. And I see the flip side of the issue also.

Before I came back to hunting after a 20 year hiatus from it, I fished...a lot.
I learned from fishing that there are many different views and ideas of what "fishing" means.

The bottom line is that if you are following the regs and having fun, you are doing it right, and don't let anyone tell you anything different.

I respect a crossbow kill more than a rifle or shotgun kill. I respect a compound kill more than I do a crossbow kill. I respect a recurve kill more than I do a compound kill.

But don't get confused........I respect them all. The heirarchy that I've outlined is strictly a matter of opinion and in the end, meaningless.

At the end of the day. if you hunt ethically and legally, you are welcome in my camp.

RE: using a crossbow?
 

VC - Not that simple though because many states are seeing a push for legalization of crossbows in general archery season.

Do you agree with a crossbow in general archery season ? Why or why not ?

RE: using a crossbow?
 

Zel,

Let me answer the question that you asked to VC. I do think crossbows should be allowed during archery season. Let me quantify that by saying that I would never shoot a crossbow unless I was physically disabled. I killed my first deer with a bow 15 years ago on my 14th birthday and although I have killed several with rifles and muzzleloaders over the years, bowhunting with a compound is my primary method of hunting. As a matter of fact I have only killed one deer with a muzzleloader in the last several years. Now all that being said, my wife has started to enjoy hunting. She weighs a buck 05 soaking wet with a rock in each pocket. I see no reason that she should not be able to enjoy archery season because she is physically unable to draw legal hunting weights. I think the same goes for children that are unable to draw legal hunting weights. I don't think my way is the only way and I don't think others should be punished for having different views than I do. We often kid people that hunt with crossbows by asking them if they wear pantyhose when they hunt. But, I still respect the individuals right to hunt with a crossbow during archery season and I think it should be their right to do so. The way I see it is that anything that will help bring more people into the sport and give hunters a stronger presence should be welcomed with open arms not judged and condemned. To steal a line from VC, anyone that hunts legally and ethically is welcome in my camp. JMO

RE: using a crossbow?
 

Ummm, I don`t know what kind of compound you are using. Those loud ones went my the wayside a few years back. My compounds are really no louder than my recurve.

And, while I will agree you have SOME validity to a couple of your statements.....you still dance around issues better than Fred Astaire!

True, in the hands of a skilled archer, the compound is superior to the crossbow in every respect......except one! It is needs to be HAND DRAWN...AND HAND HELD.

This is what seperates the two weapons.

Is the crossbow a viable weapon for some big game, especially deer? You bet.

Does it belong in archery only season? IMNSHO.....NO!

Obviously the VAST majority of state wildlife agencys agree with the above opinion, although a few, very few, have caved to the crying of late.

RE: using a crossbow?
 

Oops, just saw this when I posted.

Silentassassin, brings up a most excellent point. I agree 100%. I know, how can I agree with that, yet argue against crossbows for the healthy?

It has been my experience that the majority of healthy folks going to crossbows have done so while openly stating they do NOT have time to practice with a compound.

My honest opinion is that we need more bowhunters, even if they use crossbows, but, we already have enough unethical hunters out there. If, and this is a big if, but if crossbow hunters are as a whole, MORE unethical in regards to shot placement, then we need to limit that mentality.

I am still looking for good ideas on how to get more hunters to be better, more responsible hunters?

RE: using a crossbow?
 

all of you all are like little kids. we are all deer hunters and love to do it so get over it ![:@]