Letter of Resignition?
10-16-2003, 08:53 AM
#31
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Princeton, Illinois
Posts: 595
RE: Letter of Resignition?
Everyone wounds deer!!! Some wounds lead to the quick death of the animal others are more slow to bring the reaper. Some never do the intended damage and the deer lives. Unless you are shooting the deer with a shotgun in the head and cleaving the brain from the skull then for the most part aren' t all bow hunters " wounding the animal?" If it runs fifty yards and piles up, wasn' t it wounded from the time of impact until the time of death?
BOTTOM LINE- If you do not practice with your bow. If you do not become automatic with your bow. If you can not accurately guess yardages. If you can not field judge deer. You need to hold off on hunting until you acquire knowledge. Compare it to getting a drivers license. you do not just walk in and grab your pre-printed license and go drive a car. You go first with someone who is experienced. You gain knowledge on the subject. Practice and practice more before handing alone a life taking object.
BOTTOM LINE- If you do not practice with your bow. If you do not become automatic with your bow. If you can not accurately guess yardages. If you can not field judge deer. You need to hold off on hunting until you acquire knowledge. Compare it to getting a drivers license. you do not just walk in and grab your pre-printed license and go drive a car. You go first with someone who is experienced. You gain knowledge on the subject. Practice and practice more before handing alone a life taking object.
10-16-2003, 01:17 PM
#34
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Letter of Resignition?
Mossy:
Here is my covered dish for the feast.
It is what you are not saying rather than what you are saying, that does not allow an immediate narrowing down of what your problem{s) might/could be. You have briefly indicated that you are shooting accurately, but you did not state so in a manner that leaves me with a clear understanding as to how accurate you are actually shooting and how consistent your accuracy is and how proficient you are at tuning your gear.
What strikes me about your dilemma, is that the main problems you say you are having, seems to be consistent and with similar results. Mainly, you keep hitting high and your arrow penetration is bad. A high hit could be a result of one cause or a combination of causes
e.g., not bending at the waist, depth perception problem, aiming at the deer rather than picking spot, problem with properly estimating distance, incorrect visual misperception of what the distance actually is vs. average size of deer, early release, improper draw length, spine issue, panic, etc, etc, etc. and all of the above.
IMO, aiming at the deer and not picking a spot may be the leading cause of missed or off POA shots for most new shooters and shooters who have not yet had many deer in front of them
As for the penetration problem alone, blades that are not sharp are contribuatable, however, in your case(s) as you have described, I doubt the penetration problem is primarily caused by broadheads that may have lost their edge. By your description, you seem to be getting into bone and dense muscle in (normally) non-fatal areas. A dull blade does not cause missed or off POA shots.
Although some shooters believe that a quality broadhead that is sharp should always be able to " bust" through any bone and muscle or the head is not a good head, the truth is; regardless of how sharp the head is or the quality of the head, large and dense bone and dense muscle can oftentimes and unexpectedly stop the head' s penetration dead in its tracks. How stable the flight shaft is (porpoising, fishtailing) and the angle of entry (tail high, low, right, or left) can (also) greatly and rapidly shed off much of the penetration energy.
What is your setup e.g., bow, draw-weight, draw-length, shafts, etc?
Here is my covered dish for the feast.
It is what you are not saying rather than what you are saying, that does not allow an immediate narrowing down of what your problem{s) might/could be. You have briefly indicated that you are shooting accurately, but you did not state so in a manner that leaves me with a clear understanding as to how accurate you are actually shooting and how consistent your accuracy is and how proficient you are at tuning your gear.
What strikes me about your dilemma, is that the main problems you say you are having, seems to be consistent and with similar results. Mainly, you keep hitting high and your arrow penetration is bad. A high hit could be a result of one cause or a combination of causes
e.g., not bending at the waist, depth perception problem, aiming at the deer rather than picking spot, problem with properly estimating distance, incorrect visual misperception of what the distance actually is vs. average size of deer, early release, improper draw length, spine issue, panic, etc, etc, etc. and all of the above.
IMO, aiming at the deer and not picking a spot may be the leading cause of missed or off POA shots for most new shooters and shooters who have not yet had many deer in front of them
As for the penetration problem alone, blades that are not sharp are contribuatable, however, in your case(s) as you have described, I doubt the penetration problem is primarily caused by broadheads that may have lost their edge. By your description, you seem to be getting into bone and dense muscle in (normally) non-fatal areas. A dull blade does not cause missed or off POA shots.
Although some shooters believe that a quality broadhead that is sharp should always be able to " bust" through any bone and muscle or the head is not a good head, the truth is; regardless of how sharp the head is or the quality of the head, large and dense bone and dense muscle can oftentimes and unexpectedly stop the head' s penetration dead in its tracks. How stable the flight shaft is (porpoising, fishtailing) and the angle of entry (tail high, low, right, or left) can (also) greatly and rapidly shed off much of the penetration energy.
What is your setup e.g., bow, draw-weight, draw-length, shafts, etc?
10-16-2003, 01:51 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,382
RE: Letter of Resignition?
*Update* Thanks Rack-attack my mistake.
So I guess it' s PaHunter who is doing the bashing. PaHunter, there is no need for comments like that. You are doing nothing to help a fellow hunter who is here pleading for help.
Mossy_Oak, I hear ya man and I appreciate you being very open and honest about your problems. I don' t think you are an idot at all. The very first and hardest part of learning is admiting that you are making mistakes and want to learn and improve. You are doing all of that and if taking some time off from bowhunting it what you need, that' s ok. I think you have gotten some great advice form most of the guys here and they are much more knowledgable about bowhunting than I am. I do think that dull blades on your broadheads could be part of your problem as others have said. Good luck and listen to the fellas here who are trying to help ya out. Ignore the bashers.
So I guess it' s PaHunter who is doing the bashing. PaHunter, there is no need for comments like that. You are doing nothing to help a fellow hunter who is here pleading for help.Mossy_Oak, I hear ya man and I appreciate you being very open and honest about your problems. I don' t think you are an idot at all. The very first and hardest part of learning is admiting that you are making mistakes and want to learn and improve. You are doing all of that and if taking some time off from bowhunting it what you need, that' s ok. I think you have gotten some great advice form most of the guys here and they are much more knowledgable about bowhunting than I am. I do think that dull blades on your broadheads could be part of your problem as others have said. Good luck and listen to the fellas here who are trying to help ya out. Ignore the bashers.
10-16-2003, 07:59 PM
#37
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Nashville Illinois
Posts: 380
RE: Letter of Resignition?
My gratitude cannot be expressed in words guys. I shot some today, changed my setup a little bit and worst of all...spent more money! I went with a box of Thunderhead 100g' s. They come with 6 heads, so i have some to practice with. And i bought a new deer grunt(needed one anyway, just got it while i was there) I figure i can practice with it when i go out and sit with no arrows. heh, sounds funny. The feild i hunt here, i have my stand in a spot where the deer just pass by so im going to get my climber in a tree farther down to where i can watch the deer for longer. (without them just jogging by) As far as tuning my bow, I have yet to paper tune it, but just eyeballed it, there is some slight wiggle but nothing REAL bad. I saw a website that told all how to paper tune but i lost it and dont really remember everything about it. I plan to paper tune before i shoot at another deer if someone can either tell me how or find that link for me, it was like an Easton website i think. As far as my setup goes.... Browning ambush 80, 60lb, 28-29" draw, whisker biscuit, 28" Carbon Fury arrows with 100 grain tips. Hmm...have i left anything out? Thanks a ton guys, you' ve helped out a lot. My brother gets home next week from Air Force basic/technical training(he' s been gone sine june 11) And since june 11 ive been looking foreward to hunting with him when he got back. Looks like i will just be the tracking/hauling buddy One more question, wrinkled fletching vanes, what to do about them? I tried some hot water and it helped straighten them a little, is there anything else that will fix them? Thank x 1000000000 yall. Looks like im going to be leaving my arrows at home and taking some binocs and maybe a camera. again, many thanks.
I went with a box of Thunderhead 100g' s. They come with 6 heads, so i have some to practice with. And i bought a new deer grunt(needed one anyway, just got it while i was there) I figure i can practice with it when i go out and sit with no arrows. heh, sounds funny. The feild i hunt here, i have my stand in a spot where the deer just pass by so im going to get my climber in a tree farther down to where i can watch the deer for longer. (without them just jogging by) As far as tuning my bow, I have yet to paper tune it, but just eyeballed it, there is some slight wiggle but nothing REAL bad. I saw a website that told all how to paper tune but i lost it and dont really remember everything about it. I plan to paper tune before i shoot at another deer if someone can either tell me how or find that link for me, it was like an Easton website i think. As far as my setup goes.... Browning ambush 80, 60lb, 28-29" draw, whisker biscuit, 28" Carbon Fury arrows with 100 grain tips. Hmm...have i left anything out? Thanks a ton guys, you' ve helped out a lot. My brother gets home next week from Air Force basic/technical training(he' s been gone sine june 11) And since june 11 ive been looking foreward to hunting with him when he got back. Looks like i will just be the tracking/hauling buddy One more question, wrinkled fletching vanes, what to do about them? I tried some hot water and it helped straighten them a little, is there anything else that will fix them? Thank x 1000000000 yall. Looks like im going to be leaving my arrows at home and taking some binocs and maybe a camera. again, many thanks.
10-16-2003, 08:37 PM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Letter of Resignition?
Mossy:
What size of shaft are you shooting? Do not just blame the heads and believe that changing heads will be a quick fix.
In addition, that " ...slight wiggle" you mentioned is an indicator something is going on that needs corrected and should not be lived with. That slight wiggle can become something greater if the flight problem is compounded by another problem.
You could have a shaft spine problem and/or a bad vane contact problem. Incorrect nock height can also cause erratic arrow flight if the nock end is striking the shelf, or in your case, the rim of your " WB." Bad torquing should also be considered. You might try shooting off a standard rest to see all of some of the flight irregularity disappears and your accuracy and grouping improves.
PS: Dump the vanes, their shot! Install new vanes on your shafts…5" .
What size of shaft are you shooting? Do not just blame the heads and believe that changing heads will be a quick fix.
In addition, that " ...slight wiggle" you mentioned is an indicator something is going on that needs corrected and should not be lived with. That slight wiggle can become something greater if the flight problem is compounded by another problem.
You could have a shaft spine problem and/or a bad vane contact problem. Incorrect nock height can also cause erratic arrow flight if the nock end is striking the shelf, or in your case, the rim of your " WB." Bad torquing should also be considered. You might try shooting off a standard rest to see all of some of the flight irregularity disappears and your accuracy and grouping improves.
PS: Dump the vanes, their shot! Install new vanes on your shafts…5" .
10-17-2003, 03:33 AM
#40
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kilauea Hawaii Hawaii, USA
Posts: 155
RE: Letter of Resignition?
I' m thinking two things when I first read the post:
1. Not picking a spot.
2. Shooting high because in elevated position.
But if you have not paper tuned yet?[:' (] But that' s OK. Test your broadheads and compare them to field point groupings and adjust your arrow rest until the two groups come together. The reson is because broadheads are much more susceptable to minor tuning inacuracies. If they group to the right of the field points, you can move your arrow rest left just slightly and they will move left towards the field points even though the field point groups seem to be in the same place.
Sounds like you are having a bad year. But you seem to be getting alot of shot opportunities. Your hitting to high and too forward tho if it' s in the shoulder. Aim lower a few inches behind the elbow or somewhere in that area. And pick a spot. A shadow, spot of fur, or whatever. That will really help to out in shooting game because there is no bullzye to aim for otherwise.
1. Not picking a spot.
2. Shooting high because in elevated position.
But if you have not paper tuned yet?[:' (] But that' s OK. Test your broadheads and compare them to field point groupings and adjust your arrow rest until the two groups come together. The reson is because broadheads are much more susceptable to minor tuning inacuracies. If they group to the right of the field points, you can move your arrow rest left just slightly and they will move left towards the field points even though the field point groups seem to be in the same place.
Sounds like you are having a bad year. But you seem to be getting alot of shot opportunities. Your hitting to high and too forward tho if it' s in the shoulder. Aim lower a few inches behind the elbow or somewhere in that area. And pick a spot. A shadow, spot of fur, or whatever. That will really help to out in shooting game because there is no bullzye to aim for otherwise.