Cloud... you took the words out of my mouth. I just cant see paying someone to set me in a tree and wait for a animal to walk by. By doing this i would be missing " THE HUNT" . I agree, half of the fun is trying to figure out where to go and when to move. Scouting and all that goes with hunting is i big part of the hunt to me. I have nothing against outfitters or those that use them, but i can safely say I have never used one and don' t believe I ever will. Just show me the public land and move out of my may

Outfitters do provide a service while making money.....heck yes, they have too. I guess I dislike the prospect of leasing, of course many individual hunters these days lease land to hunt.....some because they have no other choice.

Outfitting for whitetail deer has definitely had a negative impact in Kansas. Where there used to be plenty of land to go around, now it is dismal. I' ve lost out on thousands of acres to hunt due to land locked up by outfitters. The private section of ground my buddies and I do have a last foot hold on is surrounded by outfitters. Now these outfitters don' t give a hang about shooting does or improving or even maintaining the health of the herd. They are like gold diggers raping the countryside and when the resource is decimated, they will move on to someplace else with no regard to what they left behind, which is a herd that sucks and is out of balance. They have bowhunters hunting ground every day in November and gun hunters every day for two weeks in December basically killing every single buck from 3.5 and up and lately even some younger than that just because they aren' t seeing the bucks like they used to and no one who pays 3K is going deerless. It' s horrible. It' s all about the outfitters making money and that' s it. You can' t argue with me about the plight of the struggling farmer whose crops are being destroyed by deer and the money they make off hunting feeds them through the winter...what a friggin' joke! I know. I see it. These farmers are doing just fine and are outrageously wealthy but it' s simply a matter of the value of the land as pasture ground or hunting ground. It' s the golden rule...the one with the gold makes the rules and the conglomeration of outfitters has much more economic resources than most average Joe hunters with kids at home and a mortgage to pay. Most farmers despise deer anyway and figure they might as well make some extra cash for a couple extra 4x4 quads to play with or perhaps another SUV...certainly not for food, crop damage compensation, or any other bogus reason. It' s ruining hunting for sure where I' m at and it makes me sick. Now I' m not talking about elk, bear, moose, caribou...etc...outfitters, I don' t know about them so I can' t comment. I' m speaking to whitetail deer outfitters of which I know well..what a scam! [:' (][:@][:' (][:@][:' (][:@][:' (][:@]

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Never hunted with an outfitter before and I' m not planning to, nor do I even know an outfitter but that doesn' t change my opinion. I' m with Rob on this one. It' s legal and as long as the outfitter is running an honest business, no one should be able to stop him. If you are mad that " your" hunting land got leased up, then you should have offered to lease it first. There is nothing in the Bill of Rights that says we are all entitled to free hunting grounds on private property. This all leaves us with 3 options for the future. Buy land, lease land, or hunt free public land. Sure it' s not as good as asking permission and hunting for free but there are alot of things in this country that aren' t as good as they were 30 yrs ago. Just my 2 cents.

Texas guys always seem to have the same mindset on this issue. Perhaps it' s because darn near every inch is leased up in Texas and they have forgotten what it was like to have a long lasting relationship with a farmer or other landowner that let you hunt their ground in exchange for some help here and there or just some good ole fashioned freakin' conversation. Screw the outfitters and their business! It' s ruining the sport. It' s destroying the quantity and quality of the deer! The only friggin' benefit is for the friggin' outfitter! Because it' s legal....gawd I hate those words. But TxCowboy unfortunately you are right in your three proposed options...lease, own, or hunt public...friggin' sad, really friggin' sad...all for the almighty buck.

" ...most of the farmers are outrageously wealthy..." ??? Come on wolfen there is NO way you can honestly state that as fact. The majority of landowners are FAR from wealthy. Farming is hardly an " outrageously profitable" business.

The landowners are simply providing a service and are entitled to be compensated for their work. Its simple economics at work and gripe all we want, its only going to continue to become more common. GONE are the days of " free hunting" or hunting on a buddies/family members land. Clubs, leases, outfitters lease holdings and " pay to trespass" is the rule of the day. What are landowners to do? Someone falls out of a tree yet can sue the landowner who must carry liability insurance, what is he to do?

The outfitters also make it much safer for most. Most of us east of the MS that hunt outwest are hardly in shape to do so and if so its still safer to go with someone who is familiar with the terrain and know who and where to contact folks in the event of an emergency. A guided hunt is also MUCH more productive. You can go out and spend half a week scouting and trapsing allover the place just trying to find likely spots. Or you can spend that entire week with much better odds of actually seeing what quarry you are after when utilizing a guide.

Sure the prices are steadily going up in the various trophy producing areas regardless what type of animals you are talking about. Thats pure and simple economics. There is only so much carrying capacity and only so many trophies available in a given time period, yet the list of willing " guns" grows larger each year. Simple economics will again dictate who gets what.

This is why it should become more evident to " the common man" that he should utilize and maximize his own lease, farm or available hunting area for trophy production without the need of " going to the Holy Grail" wherever that may be. But sadly, many just want to pop raghorns, not shoot slickheads, not bother with foodplots and the expense. Yet they are the first to claim, " My area wont grow big boys" . But then sadly they complain about outifitters and hunters who pay for such mgmt in areas that do produce such animals.

I for one enjoy hunting different areas not only for the increased trophy potential but also for the " different scenery" and all that a new area has to offer. From the strictist point, deer hunting is deer hunting regardless where you go. But I enjoy places like MO, KS and TX moreso than my homestate of TN not solely because of trophy production (truth is my place in TN produces larger bucks and the place in hunt in southern MO and TX) its just that " other places" are different and may offer more of a given class of animals. And heck isnt anticipation and preparation half the fun?

Cant ANYONE be happy?
RA

TxCowboy....

I just think that there are a few of us are getting a little depressed because of the land we used to be able to hunt is diminishing greatly.

" This all leaves us with 3 options for the future. Buy land, lease land, or hunt free public land."

God what a great concept. I wish I would have thought about that. The fact remains that there are many of us that can' t afford to do that. I don' t think that any of us are saying that what is going on is illegal or anything like that. This is just one thing that some us(the guys that don' t have the $$) can' t do a dang thing about and are just venting a little.