Land is being leased up around my family farm in Ks. by ourfitters, and what bothers me the most is the guys that are coming into hunt with the outfitter have no desire to shoot does. So, the doe/buck ratio just keeps getting worse. If the guided hunters/outfitters aren' t going to do thier part in maintaining the herd, it doesn' t help out the local deer herds at all. Plus like others have said, one day at the rate things are going, he who has the most money will be he who gets to hunt[:' (]

Its a big money thing now! I am not saying all are this way.....but most are! Providing a service is NOT the intention of outfitting......its to make money. I don' t believe anyone provides services out of the goodness of their hearts.

Damn it!! Now I' m getting depressed! [:@]

I gotta go prep some stand sites......When I get back you guys better be talking about how this hole situation is turning around and the average joe has something to look forward to![>:]

I think hunting is slowly turning into a rich mans sport, but I won' t point the finger solely at the outfitter. There are growing number of people that just want to get out there and kill a deer, and a good number of those people are very rich, and pay a premium to go kill game. I do see a problem with outfitters as well using this to jack up basic rates, making the average guided hunt of 5-10 years ago out of reach for the average Joe today.

What really bugs me is when I see Alaskan guided hunts for grizzly bears that are $7500-$10,000 that are conducted in the same areas using the same resources as the caribou hunts that those same outfitters guide for $2500-$5000. The reason the grizzly hunts are anywhere from $2500-$5000 more expensive is because there is a guide required law for non residents to hunt them in Alaska. Same goes for Dall sheep and mountain goat, although the terrain is a bit tougher, and access by planes, horses, and other methods is expensive. When I can go on a grizzly or sheep hunt in a new area for about $250 out of my own pocket into an area that a guide takes a client for $7500 still baffles me. But the outfitters up here do not have a hard time booking full for several seasons ahead because there are a ton of people willing to pay the price.

This big buck craze where they are selling bucks by inches of antler, that is where it gets out of hand. When you watch a hunting show on the outdoor channel that gives a link to the outfitter they are using, then go to the webisght and look up pricing, it is downright amazing at times.

I don' t have the kind of money for all the hunting I want to do to go guided. I' ve gone on some exceptional hunts with family, friends and members from the board here. Last Sept. Don K. myself and Robert Scott hunted elk in Montana. The hunt cost me about $1000 total for tags ($650 alone), airfare (cashed in mileage), food and a couple extra bits of gear that I needed for the hunt. It was my first ever elk hunt, and going with guys that had gone before taught me alot. We almost got elk on a couple different days, and I had my chance at a monster bull, but the pines were just a little thick. I don' t think I could of gotten much more out of a guided hunt.

I still have yet to go on an outfitted or guided hunt, but I' m sure sometime in the future I will. I do agree they have their place, but I think some are getting out of hand, and dragging others along with them. This goes further with outfitters buying and leasing lands and moving out hunters that have used those lands for generations. It' s disturbing to hear about.

I look at it like this..... THere are a lot of great outfitters I am sure, and I am also sure some that are not so good. I think too many can really make certain geographical areas much harder to hunt or find decent areas to hunt. I compare it to my industry - fishing. Here in Florida, we have a dozen charter captains a mile... are they ruining the fishing ? Its the same thing - some good ones, some not so good...... If you go to certain areas in Florida - fishing is tough and a charter can be a welcome thing - just like an outfitter to a guy in a new area.... so there are good points I think, and nothing wrong with good outfitting services. The big differance here is the land issue - no one leases fishing areas, but the land thing is a subject with many points of view I' m sure. Unfortunately some people have the resources to buy and lease lands for these services-some do not, and its land that effects a lot of people for the many reasons mentioned above. I dont really see an all around cure for some of the problems......

Hey Cougar - where in Illinois are you ?? I hunt Vermilion county - where I was born. Its a long drive from Florida - but worth it - 2 8 points in last 2 years =)

Tom

eightwgt
I am down in Crawford county. In Robinson to be exact. You lived near Danville right? Sounds like you did good bud. I got a 10 and a 8 last year, not record book bucks though. I do a little hunting in the Crawford County Conservation area too(1,100 acres), but not much.

The subject of this thread is a tough one to correctlly or accurately answer, because whether you are for or against outfitters will probably determine a person' s answer to the question. With everything including outfitters...there are good ones and bad ones. Unless I come into some $$, I really don' t know if I will ever be able to afford a hunt of anykind. All I know is that the amount of private land that I can hunt is declining year after year after year. There are many different factors that go into why. And I' m sure that a lot of guys are seeing the same thing. The depressing thing about is....I don' t ever see it changing the other way. Not that I' m trying to get simpathy points will any of you fellas....but I WILL get my kids into hunting someday and where am I suppose to take them?? Over-hunted Public land?? And deal with all of the A-Holes that hunt it?? Not that all fellas that hunt public land are that way, but the few that I have run into are. I certainly don' t know the correct answers. I just think that it' s kind of sad.

BOWDACIOUS:
I' m sure that you have very good intentions with everthing that you do and I' m certainly am not bashing you in anyway, but you can' t tell me that anyone that starts anykind of business doesn' t do it because they think they can make $$ doing it. Whether they do it to get rich or just to make a living. Either way, they start it to make $$.

Couar

Yes near DaNVILLE I am actually hunting in Vermilion county Indiana.... long story how I got permision to hunt 5000 acres but its LOADED with deer - big ones. My bucks were not records at all either - but hey, my first 2 bucks, both with a bow, and both near where I was born - just the way I wanted it ! I saw some 160 + class bucks and chased a 10 point for a week before shooting the 8 last year on my last day in the rain (man I was coldddd)
I was hopin you may have been closer - be cool to hook up with someone from the forum. Ill be up there Nov 5th - just like the last 2 years...... cant wait.

And preachers don' t preach out of the goodness of their hearts, churches cost money, garbage men don' t pick up your garbage for free, it' s a service and it cost money.....your dentist, doctor, mechanic help you out, but not out of the goodness of their heart but they still provide a service.

Food plots cost money not to mention gas, time, equipment, treestands, food....that we provide as part of our service......some are hogs about it, think of it as a product....supply and demand......I guess I don' t like being lumped into the hogs of the industry....

We take off work to guide as owners and operators, shouldn' t we get paid as part of our service.... Last rifle season a client from NJ shot a heck of a nice buck for little cash....not much different than paying cabin dues, for a license, your favorite lease.....the only difference is we do the leg work.

Some outfitters are hogs...like perhaps some like Arctic might gave info of....

I do see the threat of outfitters leasing up property. If our business grows, we hope to lease more....but with fair chase animals available.....growing them in a natural enviroment does cost a lot of money.

Just one outfitters opinion.

I have never used an outfitter, and probably never will! I really like to do it all myself, I mean all of it. It makes it that much more rewarding when you have success. I could buy any hunt or hunts I wanted to, but its not the same, I would feel like I bought the animal. I have absolultly no problems with outfitters or guides, its just not for me! I do have a problem with people paying for a hunt, saying they' re hunting, and there Fences involved!!!! Not hunting!

Good Luck!