Which was first, the chicken or the egg?

In this case, it' s not semantics and the rule was here first. Matt McPherson is the one that decided to put a high letoff bow on the market way back in the early 90' s when he owned McPherson Archery, but still several years after the rule was passed. It was meant strictly for target shooting and turkey hunting. It was never meant as a big game hunting bow. At least, that' s what the advertising copy said.

But, guys that like that speed and willingly overbow themselves to get it, flocked to the high letoff bows and the other manufacturers had to follow suit with their own versions to maintain market share. And, sure enough, they started hunting big game with them. Now, just 10 years or so later, they think they should have the same honor of placing their name in the Book as someone that has abided by P&Y' s rules all along.

Since I' m already mud here, I' ll go even further and say what I really think about this. What I' d like to know, if Beatty had taken that buck with an old Bear Whitetail Hunter, would there be any of this outrage over the rule? Of course not. But he took it with a Mathews (hmmm... Matt McPherson AGAIN) and the Mathews cult has gone bonkers over it. And those of you not in the cult have fallen into formation and goose stepped right along with them.

Of course P&Y would like to have the largest buck ever taken with a bow in the Book. Actually, to my point of view, they do have. When you go back the the Beatty buck it was taken with a ' bowhunting shooting system' that does not meet the definition of a bow by their standards. The Zaft buck? Didn' t make world record because of scoring deductions by the official scoring committee, not because of what letoff the bow had.

You know, since it was in Ohio, Beatty could just as easily have been shooting a crossbow when he took that deer. How many think it should have been entered if it had been a Horton instead of a Mathews?

Naturally, that' s just the way I see things from where I stand.

I shoot 65% you may shoot 75% 80% etc etc. That does not make one a better bow hunter or an inadequate hunter. I will respect you as a hunter as long as you follow the game laws. It dosent matter to me if you are a x bow hunter rifle hunter whether you use a recurve or an 80% compound. If one chooses to shoot a higher letoff that is ones choice and that is great, I wish you luck as well as all other game law following hunters. If P&Y changes their rules then so be it. I believe if you chose to buy a bow that does not qualify under their currrent rules then you have no reason to complain. If you want to have the oppertunity to enter an animal in p&y you must obide to their rules and currently that is 65%. I know if I am fortunate enough to harvest a P&Y animal I would be able to enter if I so chose to.

" If you are hunting " FAIR CHASE" and abiding by all the rules and regulations of the state wildlife dept. and kill a record class buck, then it should be elgible for entry into the book that has been established as the standard for recording record class deer........
If the P&Y club doesn' t want to change the let-off rule, because they just don' t want to change it FINE....but, don' t tell me the reason is because its " an unfair advantage" ...there in lies the problem. If they had some sound reason for the rule I could understand it, sorry the reason they gave me just doesn' t fly!
I am very grateful for the Pope and Young Club, and the fine job it has done over the years preserving and recording world class animals, so we can all admire and aspire. I hope their commitment to ethics in hunting will override their stubborness to hold on to the past....... "

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I noticed that the above statement was easily passed over but is prob. the best post in the bunch. I don' t know who really thinks that a 80% letoff will allow you to shoot more record book bucks than a 65% but if you do then you are mistaken. I never had a buck care which bow I was shooting. As for the change if it comes about, many of you are right the Beatty buck being shot with a high let off bow will be the reason why the change is made. Not because they want the biggest buck in thier book but because they don' t want to lose out on the $$$$!!!!

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" Since I' m already mud here, I' ll go even further and say what I really think about this. What I' d like to know, if Beatty had taken that buck with an old Bear Whitetail Hunter, would there be any of this outrage over the rule? Of course not. But he took it with a Mathews (hmmm... Matt McPherson AGAIN) and the Mathews cult has gone bonkers over it. And those of you not in the cult have fallen into formation and goose stepped right along with them. "

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Seems to me the same organization you are defending is falling right in behind as well. They don' t want to lose out on the money. They know how many members they are losing by keeping the rule. They know how much money that is and they want it. Do I blame them? Hell no, go get it because they will use it in an american way to line the pockets of thier board members, along with doing some good for us hunters. But don' t be stupid about the arguments because it all comes down to the money and how much goes into thier pockets. P&Y are not any better or worse than any other organization out there right now. They want to make money and that is the bottom line. If you don' t believe that then just wait for the vote and you will know then. There is no reason to change the rule if they were not in it for the money.

You know what I don' t blame them.

You' re right, SA Iowa. I think they will change the rule. I am not going to like it, at all, but that' s their choice to make. All I can do is hope the voting members in favor of holding the line read some of these kinds of threads and know they have support and aren' t alone.

If, or should I say when, they change the rule they might as well go ahead and change another thing and start accepting crossbow kills, because that' s the next step. And we can all get ready for the guys like the one that started the ' Crossbow Season' thread, because they' re going to be right in there with us. P&Y have helped lobby to keep the crossbow at bay because of their rules. When the rule goes, they will have absolutely ZIP left in credibility.

Lone Star Bowhunters Association here in Texas dumped their version of the 65% rule for the same reason and I let membership expire. My money and support goes to my state traditional bowhunting organization now, Traditional Bowhunters of Texas.

I' m sure when Pope & Young changed the rules to let compound bows in or when they changed the rules to let the 65% let off in, people had these same discussions/arguments. The difference now is we have places like this to discuss it!

I dont know how many of you saw it, but they just ran an article about this topic in Petersen' s Bowhunting. For those of you who dont read the Magazine I' d be happy to type it up and post it, just let me know...

Just in case anyone forgot.......all of the magazines published have advertisers. Would someone please tell me the magazine article that " says" 80% of the new bows sold are 80% letoff? In my locale that is NOT the case!!!!!! Far from it! Besides.....how many know that many if not most of the bows sold with high letoffs also include an easy way to change their letoff to 65% OR come with additional modules to change to 65%? Many archers that I know purchase a bow, then either change it or have their dealer do it for them in a press.

I should mention that the article was by Jim Dougherty, past President and Director of P&Y.

I' d like to read it! Especially from his (Jim Dougherty) perspective.

Classic example of what turns me off about this entire P&Y letoff issue! The Beatty buck is an awesome display of a true monarch of the whitetail buck! But yet , because he (Beatty) wasn' t in compliance with P&Y rules , the buck isn' t recognized. This is where I draw the line! How is this respecting the animal?