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I ask you guys, how many of you were aware of The Rule before you bought your high letoff bow? Why did you ignore The Rule and buy that high letoff bow? Why, now that you consciously ignored The Rule, do you think P&Y needs to bow to your wishes and change it?

Do you think a major league baseball player should be able to use a corked bat to set a home run record? Should the league change the rules to allow it after someone did set the record with a corked bat?

Baseball, golf, tennis... They all have equipment restrictions and those sports are still as popular as ever. Golf has some pretty intense restrictions and is getting more and more popular all the time. Why aren' t you guys accusing them of not keeping up with the times?

PY rules are like the 10 Commandments...obey them and you may achieve paradise....disobey them and live eternity in an unquenchable fire.[>:][>:][>:] I respect PY and their rules. The line has been drawn, deal with it.

I shoot 65% for 2 reasons:

1-I shoot better than with a high letoff bow, and 2-If I ever happen to connect with a P&Y class animal, I' m covered if I choose to enter it.

I say leave it as it is...gotta draw the line somewhere. JMO.

If you want to win a Winston Cup race you have to drive a Winston Cup car. If you want to compete in the the Tour De France you have to ride a bike that meets UCI standards. If you want to enter your trophy in the P&Y book you have to play by their rules. IMO that' s fine.

Maybe just make categories so that we can see ALL of the great game animals out there. I just don' t like having a " book" that excludes so many great animals. They are the trophies not the dude who shot them. The animals deserve the recognition. So what if someone found it dead in the field. Put it in and put down that it was " found dead" If someone shot it with a crossbow put it in the Crossbow section. 90% let off? that' s cool it goes into the " compound 90%" section. Tradtional? same thing. How about road kill?

How about a section for " poached" Put the mug shot of the guys that did it. let everyone know that these violators are out there and their fellow hunters can see what kind of " sportsman" they are!

VERY good point.


If I shoot a P&Y deer witha 65% 60# bow holding 21# what' s the difference if I' m shooting a 75% 80# bow holding 20#? 1# difference. Doesn' t make a whole world of difference does it? For the record, I' ve killed several deer (none P&Y) with my Buckmaster set at 86# with 75% let-off -- that' s 21.5# holding weight. That' s what this whole deal is based on....let-off....holding weight. So, some of you are saying that because I was shooting 75% I can' t enter a buck....even though I was holding more wieght than average. I have heard that 60# is average....can' t back that up though. Could you all please tell me what the big deal is? I don' t see the massive difference in the numbers.

Some of you are right.......I haven' t seen any major difference between the 65% and 80% . I don' t think the 80% gives any huge advantage. But that goes both ways......if the 65% is really not much harder for you to hold back ,then why don' t you use one? I would if this issue was that important to me.

I do have to agree with Jason N though.......I personally feel like some percentage of draw weight vs. holding weight would be a better measurement .

I have no problem about people being passionate when it comes to bowhunting. Positive energy channelled in the right direction can be a good thing.

You don' t have to kill a record book deer to be a member of P&Y. By the same token, killing a record book buck having it officially measured, signing an affidavit and paying the $25.00 entry fee to be listed in the book doesn' t make one a member either. If a person feels strongly about the rules the club makes or where they draw a line in the sand on certain issues than you should join the club and let your voice be heard. Get in there and lobby for the position you want to see endorsed, otherwise you are just blowing hot air into the ecology.

I am not a member so don' t get the idea that I am on a membership drive here . I guess what I am trying to say is, if one is not a member why get bent out of shape over issues you can' t control?

If getting a buck entered in the book is important to you, (certainly, nothing wrong with that) than learn what the rules are and that is what you play by. If it is different next fall, then those are the rules you play by at that time, no big deal. I can' t think of a single sport where certain rules haven' t been changed over the years.

I think the very fact that we have these discussions at least twice a year speaks for the prestige of the club. Currently it is the " record book of choice" to be in if your a bowhunter. The best example of that statement could be the Zaft buck. He was all set up to reap the rewards of a " World Record" bow kill. Guess what, he got his wish. He owns the title to the " World Record" typical bow kill. However it is for ' Buck Masters' not P&Y and obviously the payoff isn' t going to be the same.

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" Now think of the advancement of modern bowhunting equipment represented by a slow moving turtle (walking down a football field). Perhaps no single small step the turtle takes is worth noticing, but given enough time this slow-moving creature will reach the far end of the football field. And when we finally take the time to look around to check on the turtle' s progress, it may be too late to change it' s course."

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An excerpt from the article " Pope and Young Equipment Restrictions" by Dave Holt in the Fifth Edition of Bowhunting Records of North American Big Game.

Good article and everyone that feels strongly on this issue, one way or the other, should read it.

I knew the rule before I purchased my bow! My bow falls within P&Y guidelines! I know full well what P&Y has done for bowhunting! I could still give a rats behind if they change their letoff rule or not! So according to you I must be a " self centered ingrate"



How the hell does anyone even attempt to make an intelligent response to such a shallow grade schoolish comment?