foxriverfred

Out of desparation I tried rattling last year. Sitting in my climber I heard rattling and scraping 100 yards down the ridge from me for hours. This was the real deal. Bucks were close but no calling was bringing them in.

When I came out of my stand I inadvertently kicked up a monster 16 pointer that must have bedded down before dawn not 40 yards away in a clump of deadfall.

Shaken, humbled, excited, sweating and breathing hard I just sat down for a while. It wasn' t long and I heard those bucks again. I picked up a good stick and began rubing it against a sapling (imitating a buck rubbing) I stomped and scraped the earth with my feet ( a buck scraping). Gave a few quick grunts and ducked into concealment. 15 minutes later another buck came looking. I never did get a shot but I' ll never forget matching wits against that 8 pointer for hours on that wooded hillside and oak flats after my encounter with an Ozark Mountain Monster.

GUESS WHERE I' ll be opening day?"

Big Country

Hopefully I will have time to type several of my thoughts on this subject for you.

I will tackle what I quoted from you first. What if I realize that I hunt two farms that practically surround their place in Illinois? And have hunted them for years.

I am honestly more than a little bit surprised at your findings concerning rattling for whitetails. Between you and your dad, and two brothers, you guys have some serious time in the woods. I don`t have an answer as to why you have not seen more fighting action than you have.

I do hunt in some really good areas in the midwest, and western states, but I also hunt quite a bit in PA, and W. Va too. I have seen with my own eyes many, many bucks sparing. And probably around a dozen serious, drawing blood, foaming at the mouth buck fights. By far the worst one I ever saw happened in PA. One dead deer, the other found dead the next day, maybe three hundred yards away. BIG bucks that could be heard from over 2 hundred yards away!

Granted, most fights I have seen were nothing more than a little pushing and shoving. That is why you don`t rattle the same in every situation, nor do you rattle as loud in the early season as you would in the immediate pre rut time, or during the rut.

If buck fights are very rare, how do all those tines get broken off? How do bucks get their faces tore up? Maybe they are just real clumsy!

Rattling does not work all the time, but it certainly works enough for me to continue the practice. I have shot several good bucks with a bow that have come in at a run to the horns.

If you don`t believe in rattling, that is good. Just leaves more for me![8D]

BTW, since we are talking about dumb things hunters believe work, how do ya feel about mock scrapes?

When I am rattling, I don`t have enough hands to do that, hold a bow, and video. When I am sitting over one of my mock scrapes, I got enough hands to video that!

atlasman

Congrats on being able to hunt such wonderful property. I am jealous. Like I said 99% of hunters don' t have the good fortune to be in your shoes.



I think I will start a new thread asking how many guys have seen bucks fighting. Might be interesting.

I have hunted in PA more then a few times in Elk county and will be going to W VA this year. I also hunted in Iowa for 4 years while in college........no fights....lots of deer. You have hunted in a few states and have access to premium land as I understand your post...........and you have only seen 1 battle that was really loud and fierce??.....Do you think this justifies guys all over the country rattling like maniacs every 15 minutes as if a deer battle royal is occurring each and every day of the season?? I don' t.



See above

I would say that many tines get busted while rubbing and scratching the velvet off their racks. I am sure a bunch get broken tangling with other bucks too but I doubt in fierce battles over breeding rights (in the woods I described earlier at least)

Don' t mistake what I am saying to mean I think bucks NEVER get into scuffles......a good friend of my dad' s shot a couple bucks for 2 years straight that had deep puncture wounds in their hind quarters. The next year his son took a big buck with a 5pt rack on one side and a 10" long spike on the other. Obviously he didn' t play nice. Like I said already......people use rattling like they are throwing a lure for a bass. Hunting ain' t fishing and most deer that hear rattle after rattle every 15 minutes for 6 hours are gonna regard that as a foreign noise because knock down drag out battles like that do not take place in doe infested zero breeding stress woods.


Do you think those deer would not have come in to a can or grunt........and could you have got them with more scouting and better stand placement with no horns to click??


Sorry man.......I still fill my tags......and my freezer. My antlers only rattle when the wall gets too full

I like mock scrapes. As far as scent applied to them I think I saw an article that studied deer reaction to different scents applied to scrapes to see which was best........the winner was........New car scent [] LOL Once again backing up my theory that deer are just plain curious creatures. Seeing a scrape that wasn' t there before will raise an eyebrow on a bucks normal rub line.......but as far as putting different scents in them at different times of the year or day......LOL Take a wizz in it yourself if you want to.........the key is getting his attention with the scrape and knowing when he will likely come by........then be ready. Save your money on the scrape juice and buy your hunting buddy a cup of coffee instead.....if he doesn' t finish the cup, dump that in the scrape before you climb up

A good friend of mine carries a pee bottle full of his wizz day after day out to the truck so not to leave his scent behind.......HA HA HA. The buck I shot last year with my bow was standing on wet leaves I just wizzed on 10 minutes before.

Big Country

I must not have explained clearly. In my 30 thirty years of bowhunting, I have seen firsthand probably a dozen serious fights. Oh, here.....

I only went into some detail about one that happened to occur in PA. As far as hunting in elk county, I have walked accross alot of that county in my travels. There may be a lot of buck fighting going on there, but spikes don`t make a bunch of noise when they go at it.

On to the mock scrape deal....I have heard that same report about new car smell. Pure, unadulterated BS! Maybe in a pen, with young deer, not in the wild with mature bucks.

As far as human urine, Just last year, I videod not one, but two 130-135" bucks within 5 yards of my stand, sniffing where I uninated less than 10 minutes prior. No alarm from either one. I have the bucks on tape, you would have to take my word on the urinating part. I usually turn the camera off before that stuff!

I notice you bring up about guys beating horns together every 15 minutes for 6 hours.

Maybe you just need to go with someone who has some knowledge on what may work, and what may not. You might be surprised.


I have called in many bucks with a grunt call, and some with the can call. I do a fair amount of scouting, and I actually take pride in my ability(luck)to put stands in the right area year after year. I only bowhunt, a close range sport. Sometimes the darn critters just happen to stay 50-100yards out. I need `em a little closer than that. I have had bucks turn and look several times while I grunted at them, only to come right in when I tickled the horns. I have also had it work the other way around. They would not commit to the horns, but would respond to a grunt or bleat.

If you don`t much believe in rattling, you would get a kick out of my rattling forays for midwest bucks. Big horns, and as hard as I can bang them. Yep, it scares most bucks away. Guess what...those are not the ones I am interested in anyhow. First time you hear two 300 pound bucks tie up over a hot doe, you will realize that they sure can make some racket.

Gotta go for now, I`ll check back in a few!

skeeter 7MM

Atlasman, first off I didn' t mean to sound like I was anything special, so please don' t take it that way nor was it meant that way. I simply related some numbers to show that in my area I have experienced success when rattling a certain way and not just a fluke. I also would never try and tell someone that their way was the wrong way. As long as it is legal, safe and works, who am I to say " Nope your doing it all wrong!!!!" .

I use grunt calls with all my rattling sessions. I tone vary, run soft toned mature buck grunts, courting grunts, tending grunts and even aggressive grunt calling during peak rut and the right area. I don' t use a can at all and I will bleat on occasion by mouth but am not for blind calling(besides rattling). I am with BC on this one I could careless to see smaller, immature deer, if they head for the hills no skin off my back. My technique is no where near completed, I seem to adapt or change something every year. However the basis stay the same and it has worked well in attracting bucks. I am sure some would have or may have come by without the horns due to my location choices. I have experienced very little success when blind calling, I know rattling is the same thing, but I thing it gets those bad boys goat and they forget their heads for a period of time. The last thing I want is a buck to pin point me, circle me and then bust me. Yes, It happens when I rattle, I pay particular attention to my backdoor and try to set up in a way to funnel the deer away from my downwind side. I do know that the 2 bucks I shot in the past two years came looking for fight, both deer where mature animals, ears pinned back, hair on end, musky smelly, grunting and had a loud approach. The buck this fall snapped trees as he made his way to my spot, I was ready for him long before he even appeared.

You' ll notice in my posts I mentioned " Location is the key" . So obviously scouting, area are the main reason. I have never found rattling success by just smackin horns anywhere, I do my homework and as mentioned rattle near the bedding areas under deep cover. Ear shot is the best with any calling technique, if they can' t hear you than they won' t respond. Instead of smashing horns and my finger tips, I prefer to sneak into their domain while they are away, than around 10 am I will start rattling until about 3. I only rattle a certain area for a maximum of 3 hours and have found dog days of nov.(our rut here) ie cloudy, snow mixed days, seems to work better for rattling, all 3 bucks killed last fall were on similar style days and within a 5 day period, just prior to full blazed rut.

Obviously my area is good. I hunt 2 areas of the province in each I adapt my techniques accordingly. Up north where I have a cabin, I spend most of my time in Nov. hunting & I rattle lots. This area is forest fringe, so includes choice farmlands, but provides endless miles of bush and rolling terrain that big deer love. Down south and closer to my home I spend more time just sitting in good transition areas and keeping quiet. Southern area is more agricultural, so lots of good food, but not as much great cover. I hunt an area that is similar to my northern spots but on smaller scale. Rolling terrain with decent lots of bush, butted up to argicultural lands. Both areas have their fair share of good deer and any time I head to the field it may just all come together. I by far don' t rely on one technique and scouting is the key to either area to maximize my odds on a mature buck. Also both areas see a fair share of hunters, but I hunt areas that require you to work to get into them, no easy access is my clue to go and do some hunting/scouting. I hunt on mostly public land, but do have a number of spots that are permission only. To tell you the truth most of my good bucks have come from public land, I attribute that to hunting areas that most don' t go..it becomes the deers safe haven when the pressure is on and I am around to capitalize. As long as the ladies are pushed back, the bucks will follow.

EH only works when your drinking a Canadian (Beer) and I don' t drink while I hunt

WV Hunter

I have only 1 time that I can actually say it worked for sure. It was the 1st week of Nov a few years ago. I saw a nice big 9pt with a doe about 150yds away along a field edge at the top of a ridge. She was hot and he was right with her every move. I was m/l hunting and downhill in the woods, too far for a shot. I figured I' d give the rattle bag a shot. I was down behind a big oak, and started working the bag and hitting the ground and rustling the leaves. After a minute or two, I saw the buck walk to the edge of the hill and look down towards me. He was curious, but not leaving the hot doe. All of the sudden, from behind me around the hill I hear this loud crashing and here comes a BIG 6 pt, running right at me. He stopped about 15yds behind me, hair sticking up all the way down his back....he wasn' t happy! I was sitting facing the tree, with my back to him, and the wind in my favor. He was looking for the fight hard. (I thought, perfect....the big 9pt will see him and maybe come down to investigate.) Anyhow, he stomped around for a little bit, looking all over for the fight, and then went back around the hill from where he came. I waited about 5 minutes and rattled again. Almost immediately, the big 6 pt came charging back in and screeched to a halt about 30 feet from me. Man was he pissed...it made me a little nervous as I didn' t have my gun up and in that direction since I wasn' t going to shoot him (QDM). I will say though, that' s about as nervous as I' ve ever been in the deer woods. He was a big deer and not happy. After a few minutes, he went back around the hill as he did before. The big 9pt never did leave the doe, and actually bedded down with her for 2 hours looking down towards me. I didn' t end up getting him, but what an exciting experience it was...I remember it like it was yesterday.

That is the only time I' ve seen it work for me using a full out buck fight simulation. I have had deer come along after rattlling(sparring type sequences), but honestly I' m not sure if the were coming to it or just coincidence. And I have had them come in a couple times to light sparring out of curiousity (after I' ve seen them, and they aren' t coming my way).
I hunt in areas that have many does to each buck, so I think the amount of all out fighting is not as much as in other areas that have better ratios. There is plenty of sparring though, no doubt. I will say however, they definitley fight, we' ve killed more than a few deer that had busted up racks and cuts on their heads, necks and ears from fighting. For me where I hunt, I think it' s a matter of catching the right deer in the right state of mind...then it will work. Some other folks where I hunt have had some success also, but it' s not alot overall. I don' t agree that it' s an unnatural sound though, even in the areas I hunt where fighting may not be as prevavlent as other areas. I think alot of it probably gets done at night, (which makes sense because that' s probably when many of the mature animals are moving anyhow). I' ve seen areas all tore up that had to come from a fight, and it wasn' t there the day before. I will continue to bring my rattle bag, and use it like any of the other tools I have...when I feel I need to. It definitely can and does work.

outdoorsman09

i tryed rattling for a couple years.... frust time was out in the open where i could see for over a mile... didn' t have anything come in that day... did have a buck mount a doe a little out of range of me though the day before... last year i started bowhunting... and i moved to a river that is really wooded in some spots... at the end of the season i found out i should have listened to my dad in the beginning of the season... its a 1x2 mile section and my dad told me to hunt as far into the middle as i had permission... well i only hunted a 1/4 mile from the road... didn' t see a single deer... then i got a tree stand for x-mas... thats what changed my opinion... with six days left i tryed it out as far in as i could go... where the oaks were straight and tall... first morning i saw deer along with that night and the morning and evenings of the next to... but i wasn' t careful and burnt it out quick.... after reading some of these stories and advice i think i' ll be rattling some of teh time i' m in my stand... i tryed it in the beginning of the season with no success.... but i think i' ll give it another try

skeeter 7MM

outdoorsman, welcome to the sport!!! You must realize that rattling is a technique that only will produce when it is the right time of year and area. Also rattling in prerut is good only when either the deer are sparring, then you must mimic them (so spar)or they have broken from the bachelor groups and getting ready to mate(rut). I guess what I am saying is deer don' t fight like dogs or cats, they only misbehave when the ladies are around and ready to breed.

Good luck in your new stand and locations this fall.