Not passing threw....Any thoughts?
 

I have been having a bad problem with not passing threw, I've shot 4 bucks less than 10 yards and have not had 1 complete pass threw!! And I've shot some 20-30yds and it seems to penetrate good but wont pass threw; I shoot a Bowtech General, Beman ICS Camhunt 500 (9.1 GPI), and I belive my draw length is 27 (my arms have grown another good 1/2in or so but I want to use my arrows i have now up because they will be too short if i extend my draw length, i still have almost a dozen and i still can shoot my bow comfortable), I shot 63lb draw and rage 3 blades. If you guys got and tips to help me start passing threw I would really appreciate it. Thanks

try a smaller broadhead, maybe even a fixed blade... fixed blade would give you much better penetration. alot of guys on here really like the slick tricks, i like thunderheads also.

and you didnt really say anything about your shots other than the distance.. are you shooting? the shoulder? what angle?

Either more draw weight, heavier arrows, or a smaller cutting diameter broadhead. You are shooting enough weight,a decent weight shaft. That leaves that 1 1/2 in cutting head helping to slow your arrow down. Just my thoughts.

I'm no expert but it would be nice to know a little more about your setup. How much does your finished arrow weigh? How fast are you shooting with your hunting arrow?

If you want to get more penetration you will have to shoot a head with less resistance and stay away from the big bones. Ribs should not pose a problem but shoulders will stop an arrow. If you like the Rage heads go to the two blade they will give you more passthrus than the 3 blade.

saw a post about 2 blades not leaving a good blood trail..
hitting the shoulders, whether on the way in or the way out will not allow the arrow to exit each and every time....even if its a fixed blade.
i would try fer double lungers instead of the shoulders, as this is what i believe you are doing with what your saying, if ya want pass through..i know an arrow will kill even if it doesnt pass through.

I would have to disagree about two blades not leaving a good blood trail. Most people don't get a good blood trail because they hit the animal too high and/or don't get a passthru. I have had the best blood trails I have seen with large two blade broadheads, a passthru and a carefully placed shot. I see a lot of people aim at the middle of the deer, drop their arm and hit high, than complain about no blood. "It's not the arrow it's the Indian".

shoot a slick trick. that should guarantee a pass thru

Rage is known for extremely impressive entry holes but they almost never pass through.
If you are shooting over 260 through the chrono. then you should get a pass-through with the right head.
Try a smaller head, like a fixed blade. Slick Trick would be my first choice.

Anything that leaves a 8 inch gash will leave a good blood trail. What are they going to come out with next. A buck guillotine like they have for turkeys. "Hey I shot a buck and its head fell off" i can see the posts already.

I dont know exactly know what my hunting arrow weighs tricked out , but the last time I chrono'd it which was last year I belive it was shooting around 250-260

Heck yeah, got my dads bow out this year..an old PSE Strato-flite Express. I was worried about how old it was haha but heck, i didn't have the money this year to buy a new bow to get into bow hunting. Hopefully next year. Anyways, I shoot thunderheads...love 'em. shot a forkhorn earlier in the year...complete pass through, only ran 36 paces.

No I have been fortunate enough to make really good shots all behind the shoulder except for my first good buck I shot at I jerked right when I shot and it hit the shoulder bone it didnt penetrate pass the bone I found my arrow 20yds from where I shot him, and I try to shoot them quartering away and broadside

#1. Your arrows are underspined so you probably aren't getting the best arrow flight possible. You should be shooting a 400 spined arrow. Give or sell the remaining arrows that you have and get the proper arrow.

#2. Rage broadheads are not known to be a good penetrating heads any way. They require a lot of energy to push those long blades through a deer. Shoot a moderate diameter fixed blade head like a Slick Trick standard, G5 montec, Magnus stinger, etc... and you will gt better penetration.

#3. Make sure that your bow is tuned as good as you can get it. If the arrow is not flying perfectly straight it is wasting energy correcting itself during flight and when it hits the animal it is wasting more energy as it is slapping side to side as it is penetrating the hole in the hide and bones on the entry side of the animal. This correlates to tip #1 above.

Well, I reaad all the other posts and didn't see one thing about arrow spine. It would seem to me that, accoding to your arrow specs, you are shooting a 500 spine. At least that's what you wrote.

If this is the case then it's just possible that your arrows are wagging around in flight due to being underspined. If so this would impeded pentration because the arrows momentum is not all behind the broadhead. In other words, the arrow may be entering the deer partly sideways.

You're shooting enough draw weight and the arrow is certainly heavy enough. Kinetic energy should be sufficient so this is the only plausible explanation as far as I'm concerned.

As an example, I have used setups producing as little as 39 ft/lbs of energy (316 gr arrow going 237fps) and shot clear through deer quartering away at almost a 45 degree angle. It's not always about how much power the bow produces. Shot placement and near perfect arrow flight mean a lot more.

Arrows are too weak as bulls said above plus you are shooting rage heads which compounds the problem. Go to a 400 spine arrow and fixed blade head, problem solved once you tune your bow with the new arrows/heads.

If two holes is what you seek, I would look no further than the Magnus Buzzcut.

You put a Mayhem 250 on there tipped with a Montec you wont have any problems

rage 3 blades

one of the worst penetration designs out there

you've got some weight behind your arrows - if you went to a 2 blade COI head, you'd blow through shoulder blades and STILL bury the arrows 6" into the ground on the other side


read Dr Ashby reports on www.tradgang.com

everyone should

reading the many reviews about rage.............it lacks penetrating power.

I shoot 100 grain Muzzeys and I have had a pass through on all my deer but 1, and I hit him in the shoulder blade. Even my old bow at 60 pounds would pass through at 25 to 30 yards.

Big Bull most likely nailed it.

Sharp blades matter. Rage broadheads come very dull.

I couldn't get a pass through with a rage 2 blade with my bow. I switched and never had a problem since. My first bow was a hoyt magnatec set at 50 pounds, and i got pass throughs. You are surely underspined though.

So you guys think that its my arrow/broadhead and not my bow?

Ive killed three deer this year with the 100 grain rage 2 and had the arrow pass through each time. All three were within 20 yards. One entered in front of the shoulder and exited midway the opposite side of the buck. It left a truely impressive gash. I definately had no problem finding a blood trail.

Certainly it's not the bow itself. Doesn't matter what bow it is. All any bow does is launch an arrow at a given velocity. Years ago a good compound launched an arrow about 200 fps. Today most will shoot 250 fps or more.

The bow makes no contact with the animal. The arrow's job is to deliver the SHARP broadhead into the animal with as much of that arrow's momentum as possible. To do this it must have as much of it's momentum driving the broadhead straight through. To fly straight the arrow must be properly spined and the bow.arrow combination tuned to do so. No fishtailing or porpoising.

Add to that a broadhead that is sharp and uses all the momentum possible. It's a well documented fact that mechanical heads use as much as 25% of the arrow's energy to pierce the hide and open up. Some more than others.

If you want the utmost penetration then fixed blade heads are still the way to go. And that means just about any good quality head---not somebody's favorite. Two, blade, three, four? It doesn't matter a whole lot so long as it is sharp and doesn't cause undo planing and goes where it's aimed.

Even then there are no guarantees, but with your 60+ lb. bow and a properly spined arrow, tuned well there is no reason you can't shoot any North American game let alone a little thin skinned deer and get pass throughs.

I see most everyone talking about the arrow being "spined" could someone tell me what that is?

passthroughs
 

I shoot a Hoyt Alphamax 63#s Carbon Express CX300 arrows and two blade Rage heads and have never had a problem with penetration on deer. Turkeys are a different story, but I would rather the arrow stay in a turkey anyway. I have to wonder if the person that said that Rage Broadheads were the worst penetrating broadheads on the market has ever shot them? Seems to be alot of bashing going on here and alot of promoting another brand of heads. Shoot what you want and support your fellow hunter without bashing their equipment. Also whoever said that Rage heads came from the factory "very dull" has never even held a Rage head in their hand, they are like razors and it would be stupid for a company to send out dull broadheads. Just because you don't like a certain piece of equipment does not mean it is acceptable to make up stories about them to try to sway a person in another direction.:poke:

#1 reason is tuning. You have not bh tuned your bow. You will need a fixed blade to do this. You are losing ke at the poi!

And you know this how? By shooting them yourselves? or by seeing a couple guys on here saying they're not getting passthroughs.

Seriously, this never getting a passthrough statement is getting old.

I'm shooting 260fps and I'm 5 for 5 with passthroughs shooting 2-blade Rage at mature (260-330lbs live weight) bucks from Iowa and Kansas and 2 of my buddies are a combined 6 for 7 with the same kind of deer with roughly the same set-up. That's 11 for 12 total not counting does.

See I've used them and know what they'll do.

I agree it's the tuning,, but I do not believe you have to retune your bow to bh's...Check your cam or wheel timing, and I am a believer in paper tuning at 10 yards or laser tuning your bow and do not grip the bow!!!!

IMO rages are great heads. But there is no way they penetrate nearly as well compared to a fixed head with a smaller cutting diameter. Watch bowmadness or any show where they shoot a ton of deer with rages. Even their speed bows dont get passthroughs all the time. If you want a passthrough as much as possible, a rage broadhead isn't the way to go IMO. But thats all it is, my opinion. I know from expierence that fixed heads in my bow, with the same arrow, penetrate MUCH better than a rage. I dont have a high speed set up, i'm shooting around 250 with a 402 grain arrow. Even with all of this, i wouldn't hesitate to shoot another deer with a rage. Even though i didn't get a pass through, it sure did the job.

Arrow spine refer to the stiffness of the arrow and its ability to flex when launched off the string (dynamic spine). Your arrows are too weak. The arrow is flexing too much once it is leaving the string which is causing erratic arrow flight. I would not even bother to try and tune with a weak arrow because from shot to shot you are going to have a lot of variance.

You will see your groups tighten up when you match the correct arrow to your setup. Refer to Easton's arrow selection guide for help with this. As you move up in draw weight/length, you need a stiffer arrow so the arrow does not deflect too much when it leaves the string.

it is NOT your bow

many, MANY 40-45 pound recurves and longbows pass through the deer they're shot with, and bear, and moose, and caribou etc

your compound has more power than those - so what is the difference?


you need more arrow weight and a COI broadhead = go to 10-12 grians per pound of draw weight and a 2 blade COI head like a SteelForce and you'll BLOW through the deer you shoot

I promise

Spine refers to the deflection (stiffness) of the arrow shaft. The shaft has to be stiff enough for the draw weight of the bow and the length of the arrow, point weight and a couple other minor things. If the arrow isn't SPINED stiff enough it'll bend too much coming out of the bow. As it bends the blades on the front turn slightly sideways to the arrows intended travel which causes it to plane off track. The arrow eventually straightens out with the help of the fletching, but depending on how UNDERSPINED it is it may take too long to recover. The result is an arrow that hits the animal partly sideways thus impeding penetration.

Does this help a little?

I'm not trying to knock mechanicals, but, from what I've seen, they often fail to pass thru. Having a bow that is correctly tuned (TO YOU) and shooting a heavy/stiff enough arrow/broadhead combination into the kill zone should produce pass thrus nearly every time. My first bow shot a chronographed 173 fps and I shot thru dozens of deer with it before I upgraded.

I have shot 4 deer so far with rage 2 blades. Three have been complete pass thrus. The only one that did not I hit the deer in the spine. The rage opened completely and I could pull it out thru the other side of the spine with my fingers and that was thru the thickest part of the spine. Anyway they have beengreat heads for me so far. Have had no problem with durability or anything. Love them.

Thanks guys for all the advice I'm really learning alot, I'm going to upgrade to a heavier arrow to get more penetration and I'm wanting to try some broadheads but once I get my bow dialed in good won't the broadheads fly different than my field points? I hope this will help solve my problem, do you guys have any thoughts on what else I should try when I go into the bow shop this week?

Your broadheads may fly differently, but it is very easy to get them to fly to the same POI as your field tips. Just google easton tuning guide and it will show you everything you need to know. Its a very simple process. Good luck. Heck you can stick with the rages if you want. I killed a deer with my slow bow when it was set at 57lbs. It's all about shot placement. The deer bled out quick to. Still i think you would be better off with a fixed blade. But use whatever works for you, cuz in the end its not whats attached to your arrow, it's where you put it.:)

shoot a cut on contact broadhead