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Sounds to me you dont have enough KE or you could slightly be out of tune. I had the same problem for a while before I tried a different broadhead. Then it was consistant passthroughs. Now with my new setup PSE Stinger NI and 2blade Rage I have no problems, of course Im shooting 100% pass throughs cuz I only shot one deer with it last year and it. Waiting to put down another one or 2 yet this year.
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Originally Posted by thunderchickenfrenzy
(Post 3698966)
I dont know exactly know what my hunting arrow weighs tricked out , but the last time I chrono'd it which was last year I belive it was shooting around 250-260
100gr tip weight 15gr in fletching(a good average unless your shooting feathers) 8 for the nock 10for the insert 370gr total arrow weight. You said it chrono'd between 250-260 We will take 255 That puts you in the 54# of KE range. That is one problem. You are also underspined with that arrow, which will also yield loss of KE and make a pass through less likely. If you went up in arrow weight(and shot the right spine of arrow) considerably, to say... a 450-500gr arrow or so you would have MUCH better chances of a clean pass through. Going up in arrow weight will gain you both KE and Momentum. Your trajectory will be worse, and your bow will be slower, but it will be quieter, more efficient, and it will be more likely to pass through a deer. I havent read any of the other posts in this thread, but I will pretty much guarantee that if you take my advice for and go with a heavier arrow, you will see better results with ANY broadhead. Its not the Rages fault, its yours(no offense, that sounds harsh, but its just how it works) The only way you are going to make the current setup get a better chance of pass through is to go up in draw weight(which will weaken your dynamic spine making the arrow potential less), or shoot a smaller broadhead. Simple as that. |
Originally Posted by Ranger77
(Post 3706738)
that shut all pro-Rage people up didn't it ?
When are people going to learn to stop blaming the equipment, and spend less time talking about which bh is best etc, and spend some actual time to understand how stuff works, and the dynamics of the operation. Arrow penetration is simply not as easy as which broadhead to use. Ignorant people will achieve unknown results. Simple as that. If customer A walks in and thinks rages look cool and buys them without any sort of knowledge of the topic, he is blindly doing the experimenting before the research. You dont do the test before you study! You do your homework first and theorize what will happen in certain situations. This is life, and it seems like some people just arent that good at it:bash: |
so if I use an old rusty Satellite with dull blades sure as hell aint my fault when I don't get good penetration huh ?
you didn't watch a single video I posted did you ? those were GOOD shots - and ultra poor penetration - 1 common factor was they were using RAGE the design sucks, they are horrible at penetration qualities - and that matters A LOT |
Originally Posted by Ranger77
(Post 3707394)
so if I use an old rusty Satellite with dull blades sure as hell aint my fault when I don't get good penetration huh ?
you didn't watch a single video I posted did you ? those were GOOD shots - and ultra poor penetration - 1 common factor was they were using RAGE the design sucks, they are horrible at penetration qualities - and that matters A LOT That's the whole point... Reading comprehension not your strong point eh??? I've seen all the videos. I've seen tons of non pass throughs on good placed shots... The issue there is obvious lack of energy and momentum in the setup. The broadhead is designed for large cutting diameter, not great penetration. Now you could blame the broadhead design on mechanical failure no doubt! This trend isn't going to change. Do you think the nap bloodrunner design is bad as well if someone doesn't get a pass through??? No. The broadhead is made for a large cut, and to be functional with the least amount of failure possible which also brings more resistance in to action due to the large ferrule... If the bh deploys and functions as it should, then u can't blame the head for not getting a pass through. Consumers should educate themselves enough to have an idea of what affects are going to come from using certain things... Btw, please explain why the design is faulty??? |
I have only shot one deer with rage 2 blade and my dad has shot one. Dad shot through 2 ribs, clean cut completely through on the entry and nicked one on the exit side and still sunk up in the dirt 6 inches. Mine I hit 1 rib on the way in, cut completely through it, one blade hit the spine, cut completely through it, cut through 1 more rib on the exit side, AND hit the oppostie side shoulder. My arrow didn't burry up in the dirt though. But I don't see how there is a penetration issue with my rage 2 blades.
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Shoot Slick Tricks 125mag and shoot for the center of the Deer/Center punch him. That gives you a margin for slight error. Good Luck!!
Hatchet Jack |
Originally Posted by Ben / PA
(Post 3703738)
Regardless of the "rage vs fixed" and "heavy vs lighter" issues in this thread, there are two things that are non negotiable if you want to have optimum performance out of you and your bow.
1. You draw length IS WHAT IT IS. Shooting longer or shorter that what your draw is will cause accuracy problems. In short, don't listen to the moron at the shop. 2. Properly matched arrows in a properly tuned bow, go a long way. If you are too stiff or too soft in spine, you aren't getting the most out of ANY setup. If your BHs aren't hitting with your FPs, something's not right, find it and fix it. Good luck wading through the BS. |
Everybody wants to get in on the latest trend. Who's shooting what-Especially on TV. On most every shot I've seen on TV (with the Rage Broadhead) they blow a huge hole. But many times you see the deer running off with 6-8 inches of penatration. Most of the times, those tv shots show a pumping gash...along with the arrow still in. I'm sure some of the Rage shots pass through. I'm not sure they're designed to "need' to go through. Get a lung or liver shot with one, and it should be short tracking. I agree with earlier posts...if you want to blow one through and pick up a bloody arrow...screw on a Muzzy or your favorite fixed three blade.
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Ive killed 5 deer with the Rage two blades! Every one passed through and buried in the ground. On one occasion the arrow struck the opposite shoulder and still busted through it. The tip was not reusable, but it was effective. In my personal experience they have been extremely lethal and have passed through on every attempt.
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Originally Posted by thunderchickenfrenzy
(Post 3698865)
Beman ICS Camhunt 500
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AA Says... Get bigger arrows!!! :)
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Originally Posted by LKNCHOPPERS
(Post 3698901)
I would have to disagree about two blades not leaving a good blood trail. Most people don't get a good blood trail because they hit the animal too high and/or don't get a passthru. I have had the best blood trails I have seen with large two blade broadheads, a passthru and a carefully placed shot. I see a lot of people aim at the middle of the deer, drop their arm and hit high, than complain about no blood. "It's not the arrow it's the Indian".
Originally Posted by thunderchickenfrenzy
(Post 3698966)
I dont know exactly know what my hunting arrow weighs tricked out , but the last time I chrono'd it which was last year I belive it was shooting around 250-260
Originally Posted by thunderchickenfrenzy
(Post 3698865)
I have been having a bad problem with not passing threw, I've shot 4 bucks less than 10 yards and have not had 1 complete pass threw!! And I've shot some 20-30yds and it seems to penetrate good but wont pass threw; I shoot a Bowtech General, Beman ICS Camhunt 500 (9.1 GPI), and I belive my draw length is 27 (my arms have grown another good 1/2in or so but I want to use my arrows i have now up because they will be too short if i extend my draw length, i still have almost a dozen and i still can shoot my bow comfortable), I shot 63lb draw and rage 3 blades. If you guys got and tips to help me start passing threw I would really appreciate it. Thanks
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Originally Posted by Ranger77
(Post 3707180)
twodogs -
Who started this thread and why? They're having penetration issues - most people do who shoot mechanical and they're baffled at why. This is why - right here in this thread. If beating a dead horse keeps just one guy from losing a buck of a lifetime to mechanicals? its worth it Let's all listen to you........the guy that has NEVER shot or used the Rage head. Who would know better than you how they work.:hail: Ranger.... leave you whinning and unknowledgeable posts to something you know. TBD if there is anything. I've shot 9 P&Y bucks in my life and lost 1 of them and that was to a fixed head (Muzzy). I'm 8 for 8 using rear opening mecahnicals (Snypers and Rage). |
Originally Posted by annika3
(Post 3708406)
Let's all listen to you........the guy that has NEVER shot or used the Rage head. Who would know better than you how they work.:hail:
Ranger.... leave you whinning and unknowledgeable posts to something you know. TBD if there is anything. I've shot 9 P&Y bucks in my life and lost 1 of them and that was to a fixed head (Muzzy). I'm 8 for 8 using rear opening mecahnicals (Snypers and Rage). |
Originally Posted by annika3
(Post 3708406)
Let's all listen to you........the guy that has NEVER shot or used the Rage head. Who would know better than you how they work.:hail:
Ranger.... leave you whinning and unknowledgeable posts to something you know. TBD if there is anything. I've shot 9 P&Y bucks in my life and lost 1 of them and that was to a fixed head (Muzzy). I'm 8 for 8 using rear opening mecahnicals (Snypers and Rage). There you are again talking up your product, yet not adding anything but YOUR spew, while not really addressing the real problem. Funny for some reason I still have a hard time believing you don't have some $$$ vested interest the way you indisciminantly push these heads....... :s13: |
Originally Posted by OHbowhntr
(Post 3708499)
So if you'd like to help the young lad out, is 50ft/#'s with a relatively LIGHT arrow enough energy to be shooting 3-blade rages at mature 200# whitetail deer???? :confused0024:
There you are again talking up your product, yet not adding anything but YOUR spew, while not really addressing the real problem. Funny for some reason I still have a hard time believing you don't have some $$$ vested interest the way you indisciminantly push these heads....... :s13: You are way off point. I dispute a guy that has never used the head and I'm just stating MY facts about using the head. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? |
Maybe you're getting unlucky and hitting both ribs every time!
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I think its cool someone used someone else thread to promote themselves.
:lolabove: |
Originally Posted by annika3
(Post 3708570)
My Spew? I call a guy out that has NEVER used the head who continues to bash (spew) comments about the head and I comment on how well the head has worked for me. I think you have it backwards there Chachi.
You are way off point. I dispute a guy that has never used the head and I'm just stating MY facts about using the head. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? |
Originally Posted by annika3
(Post 3708570)
My Spew? I call a guy out that has NEVER used the head who continues to bash (spew) comments about the head and I comment on how well the head has worked for me. I think you have it backwards there Chachi.
You are way off point. I dispute a guy that has never used the head and I'm just stating MY facts about using the head. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? Do you think 50ftlbs of KE and a 365 grain arrow weight is enough for shooting a rage BH and getting complete pass throughs? What would be your minimum arrow weight (GPP) and KE to shoot a rage BH? When you helped design the rage BH what was the minimum arrow weight (GPP) and KE that you tested with? |
Originally Posted by OHbowhntr
(Post 3708653)
You never answered the question??? No ideas??? What BH would you use if you HAD to use a FIXED blade BH??? Can you tune a bow well enough to shoot a FIXED blade BH???
I don't have to choose a fixed so I can't pick one because I haven't shot a fixed for a long time. I would have to do some testing on my own. No, I can't tune a bow so I can't shoot fixed.:s2: Why don't you answer my question. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? |
Originally Posted by annika3
(Post 3708940)
To answer your question I would have them use the 2-blade 40KE head.
I don't have to choose a fixed so I can't pick one because I haven't shot a fixed for a long time. I would have to do some testing on my own. No, I can't tune a bow so I can't shoot fixed.:s2: Why don't you answer my question. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? Again you dance around the real subject, the EXPECTED response in all honesty. So say you get an invite to hunt ELK in Oregon or Montana where you can't use your beloved RAGE's, would you not go because you can't use your favorite BH which you CLAIM you helped design??? :s13: |
Originally Posted by OHbowhntr
(Post 3709268)
Again you dance around the real subject, the EXPECTED response in all honesty.
So say you get an invite to hunt ELK in Oregon or Montana where you can't use your beloved RAGE's, would you not go because you can't use your favorite BH which you CLAIM you helped design??? :s13: If I got invited I would test out a few heads and go with the one that flies the best out of my setup. Now how about answering my question. It's a simple question. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? |
my my where to start? see, I've been hunting the apst 3 days for the most part, no time to come back to this ... until now
they expect the POI to be right behind the shoulder. prepare for the worst, not the best Sounds to me you dont have enough KE if he wants more KE, drop to 200 grains - that'll boost his KE greatly, and he'll not get ANY penetration KE has little use in bowhunting drockw - The issue there is obvious lack of energy and momentum in the setup. The broadhead is designed for large cutting diameter, not great penetration. uh oh, annika3 isn't going to like hearing that ! I will never use a Rage because they suck at penetration qualities. Why in the WORLD would I want to use a product that will reduce my chances ? Its like buying a 2 wheel drive truck and driving into the mountains of Colorado in Nov for an elk hunt. Hey, I'm not going to expect snow, no 4x4 neccessary right? But IF there is snow? I'm screwed. Why? 2 wd don't have good traction qualities. Now if I'm in a 4x4? Sun or snow I'm covered. Look, prepare for bad hit with heavy arrows and big sharp 2 blade COI heads, or at least a non-mechanical with great penetration qualities like a Muzzy or Zwickey or Thunderhead. Why choose a lesser product? Because its a fad ? My Spew? I call a guy out that has NEVER used the head who continues to bash (spew) comments about the head and I comment on how well the head has worked for me. I think you have it backwards there Chachi. you also never comments on the physics of how broadheads work nor on momentum? why is that? You are way off point. I dispute a guy that has never used the head and I'm just stating MY facts about using the head. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? do you know what I've killed, how I've killed and what I used? Do you? aside from not knowing, just talk a bit about the negatives of the Rage, shall we? To answer your question I would have them use the 2-blade 40KE head. let me address this head on, right now Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? I'm 41 and I've hunted for 30+ years. I've been there, and I've done that, and my first bow was a PSE Precision Edge. Remember those? I've been through wood shafts, graphlex/fiberglass shafts, carbons and aluminum. I remember when 50% letoff was the rule. When 65% wasn't allowed. When mechanical heads were illegal. I went traditional 6-7 years ago and it enlightened me to what bowhunting IS. I don't hunt for horns really - I'll shoot a nasty knarly buck if I like it, a spike if I want meat, I'll shoot a 180" buck that only has 1 antler. Score means nothing to me much. I think I know more about what hunting is than ever before, and I know much about what archery is as well. I have used Puckett's bloodtrailers and elk heads. I've killed with them, and I've killed with Vortex and I've killed with Shockwaves. I stopped using expandbles on my own accord when I went traditional, and I'm back to compound and will never use one again because why? THEY HAVE POOR PENTRATION QUALITIES that's why - I don't have to use one to know this - and you know this too annika3 but you will not address it there is the facts on that why should anyone listen to me annika3? don't trust a single word say is the answer - instead, research Dr Ashby's broadhead studies on tradgang.com = its free, every bowhunter should spend 30 minutes reading some of it the physics that make things in this world didn't change when a Rage was designed - facts and laws are what they are people can read, research and judge for themselves how they wish to choose their setups - choose for only when shots go good, or choose a setup that gives them the best possible penetration setup and IF shots go bad, they greatly increase their chances of recovering the animals ? I choose heavier arrows and COI dependable broadheads wanna know what I think? If you've killed 8 P&Y bucks they were not public land where I spend 95% of my time hunting and if you sued Rage to kill those 8? You likely wounded and lost half that many again or more to the same heads. That's only my opinions based on how poorly they penetrate and on shots that are not perfect - and those happen - a Rage WILL fail you. You'll never admit it anyway, but that's the way I believe it based on all I know about bowhunting and mechanical heads. |
Originally Posted by Ranger77
(Post 3709658)
my my where to start? see, I've been hunting the apst 3 days for the most part, no time to come back to this ... until now
expect so often turns into not where it was suppose to go prepare for the worst, not the best sigh if he wants more KE, drop to 200 grains - that'll boost his KE greatly, and he'll not get ANY penetration KE has little use in bowhunting drockw - uh oh, annika3 isn't going to like hearing that ! I will never use a Rage because they suck at penetration qualities. Why in the WORLD would I want to use a product that will reduce my chances ? Its like buying a 2 wheel drive truck and driving into the mountains of Colorado in Nov for an elk hunt. Hey, I'm not going to expect snow, no 4x4 neccessary right? But IF there is snow? I'm screwed. Why? 2 wd don't have good traction qualities. Now if I'm in a 4x4? Sun or snow I'm covered. Look, prepare for bad hit with heavy arrows and big sharp 2 blade COI heads, or at least a non-mechanical with great penetration qualities like a Muzzy or Zwickey or Thunderhead. Why choose a lesser product? Because its a fad ? notice you didn't comment on my video posts? you also never comments on the physics of how broadheads work nor on momentum? why is that? do you even know who I am ?? do you know what I've killed, how I've killed and what I used? Do you? aside from not knowing, just talk a bit about the negatives of the Rage, shall we? LOL ...... and what does 40KE even mean anyway? Please explain let me address this head on, right now I've got a nice wall of buck. I don't enter into P&Y or offical score, I don't believe much in make believe ratings of P&Y or B&C other than a way everyone can use to say how big a buck can be. I imagine I've killed from does to spikes to 150" or so. I've killed with compound, crossbow, longbow, recurve, muzzleloader, shotgun and rifle. I've hunted probably a dozen states for quite a few animals. I've killed 5 bull elk with bows. I've never been on a guided hunt, I have done a trespass fee hunt, I've had an unguided Quebec caribou hunt. I have a $125 a year lease in Arkansas. that's it I'm 41 and I've hunted for 30+ years. I've been there, and I've done that, and my first bow was a PSE Precision Edge. Remember those? I've been through wood shafts, graphlex/fiberglass shafts, carbons and aluminum. I remember when 50% letoff was the rule. When 65% wasn't allowed. When mechanical heads were illegal. I went traditional 6-7 years ago and it enlightened me to what bowhunting IS. I don't hunt for horns really - I'll shoot a nasty knarly buck if I like it, a spike if I want meat, I'll shoot a 180" buck that only has 1 antler. Score means nothing to me much. I think I know more about what hunting is than ever before, and I know much about what archery is as well. I have used Puckett's bloodtrailers and elk heads. I've killed with them, and I've killed with Vortex and I've killed with Shockwaves. I stopped using expandbles on my own accord when I went traditional, and I'm back to compound and will never use one again because why? THEY HAVE POOR PENTRATION QUALITIES that's why - I don't have to use one to know this - and you know this too annika3 but you will not address it there is the facts on that why should anyone listen to me annika3? don't trust a single word say is the answer - instead, research Dr Ashby's broadhead studies on tradgang.com = its free, every bowhunter should spend 30 minutes reading some of it the physics that make things in this world didn't change when a Rage was designed - facts and laws are what they are people can read, research and judge for themselves how they wish to choose their setups - choose for only when shots go good, or choose a setup that gives them the best possible penetration setup and IF shots go bad, they greatly increase their chances of recovering the animals ? I choose heavier arrows and COI dependable broadheads wanna know what I think? If you've killed 8 P&Y bucks they were not public land where I spend 95% of my time hunting and if you sued Rage to kill those 8? You likely wounded and lost half that many again or more to the same heads. That's only my opinions based on how poorly they penetrate and on shots that are not perfect - and those happen - a Rage WILL fail you. You'll never admit it anyway, but that's the way I believe it based on all I know about bowhunting and mechanical heads. WOW!!!! Impressive!! Let me be the first one to shake your hand! Now that we got that out of the way.....Whoopidy doo da day. It still boils down to you have NEVER shot the head so you have no direct use knowledge of what the BH will actually do. I have killed many deer and a moose with Snypers/Rage and have yet to lose a deer using them. I shot fixed for 19 years and switched to rear opening mechanicals. Why? Because I believe Rage/Snyper are a overall better head than any fixed I have ever used. Why does this bother you so much? Shoot what you like and I'll shoot what I like but please don't try to suggest you know a product in and out when you have NEVER USED THE PRODUCT!! |
WOW!!!! Impressive!! Let me be the first one to shake your hand! Now that we got that out of the way.....Whoopidy doo da day. It still boils down to you have NEVER shot the head so you have no direct use knowledge of what the BH will actually do. I've not shot a spoon tied to the end of my arrow either, and I'm pretty certain I know what will happen. I have killed many deer and a moose with Snypers/Rage and have yet to lose a deer using them. I shot fixed for 19 years and switched to rear opening mechanicals. Why? Because I believe Rage/Snyper are a overall better head than any fixed I have ever used. bull$**** and I'll call that right there - why? because the laws of physics will not bend to a mechanical broadhead thats why! using your exact setup, a German Kenetics SilverFlame will outpenetrate evevery single time against a Rage. why? how can I say that? PHYSICS that's why ! Why does this bother you so much? Shoot what you like and I'll shoot what I like but please don't try to suggest you know a product in and out when you have NEVER USED THE PRODUCT!! I've never driven a Yugo - why? becauce they're NOT good at protecting the occupants against side impact in collisions. I'll drive a 2500HD and be MUCH safer. I know this- I don't need to be in a wreck with a Yugo to say it. I've never shot a Gobbler Guillotine (sp) at a deer - I never will either why? THEY WOULD SUCK that"s why ! I'll never use a Rage, because the qualities that MAKE a broadhead super effective are missing with the Rage. Nothing will outpenetrate a 2 blade COI design - fact 3 blades vs 2 blade will always mean the 3 blade cuts more, uses more energy to do so and will NOT penetrate deeper because of that - fact Rage designed a 40KE head - why? because the original Rage and the way it is designed rapidly loses momentum when it heads, why? BECAUSE IT HAS POOR PENETRATION qualities, that's why! So Rage designs another poor head and labels is 40KE to suck people into buying them for bows that really shouldnt be shooting anything but a 2 blade Zwickey or comparable head ! Why do I care? Because hunting is my life - its how I live, what I do. Rage and what they're being sold as is a lie. Pure and simple, they SUCK at penetration. So many bowhunters have bought into the bull**** hype and they've lost deer because of the poorness of the Rage - the internet is ALIVE with threads about them Tell me about those videos - great shots, all of them, suck penetraton. WHY ? bowhunting doesn't need poor products - Rage are poor products, that's why I care You've never once, ONCE tried to show WHY a Rage is so good. Why? I can answer that - because compare to a SilverFlame, a Zwickey, a SteelForce, an Ashby head etc they fail on every single level of what makes a great penetrating broadhead ! |
Originally Posted by Ranger77
(Post 3709723)
you want to boast your 8 P&Y bucks but I can't submit my bowhunting & hunting history huh?
I've not shot a spoon tied to the end of my arrow either, and I'm pretty certain I know what will happen. bull$**** and I'll call that right there - why? because the laws of physics will not bend to a mechanical broadhead thats why! using your exact setup, a German Kenetics SilverFlame will outpenetrate evevery single time against a Rage. why? how can I say that? PHYSICS that's why ! I've never driven a Yugo - why? becauce they're NOT good at protecting the occupants against side impact in collisions. I'll drive a 2500HD and be MUCH safer. I know this- I don't need to be in a wreck with a Yugo to say it. I've never shot a Gobbler Guillotine (sp) at a deer - I never will either why? THEY WOULD SUCK that"s why ! I'll never use a Rage, because the qualities that MAKE a broadhead super effective are missing with the Rage. Nothing will outpenetrate a 2 blade COI design - fact 3 blades vs 2 blade will always mean the 3 blade cuts more, uses more energy to do so and will NOT penetrate deeper because of that - fact Rage designed a 40KE head - why? because the original Rage and the way it is designed rapidly loses momentum when it heads, why? BECAUSE IT HAS POOR PENETRATION qualities, that's why! So Rage designs another poor head and labels is 40KE to suck people into buying them for bows that really shouldnt be shooting anything but a 2 blade Zwickey or comparable head ! Why do I care? Because hunting is my life - its how I live, what I do. Rage and what they're being sold as is a lie. Pure and simple, they SUCK at penetration. So many bowhunters have bought into the bull**** hype and they've lost deer because of the poorness of the Rage - the internet is ALIVE with threads about them Tell me about those videos - great shots, all of them, suck penetraton. WHY ? bowhunting doesn't need poor products - Rage are poor products, that's why I care You've never once, ONCE tried to show WHY a Rage is so good. Why? I can answer that - because compare to a SilverFlame, a Zwickey, a SteelForce, an Ashby head etc they fail on every single level of what makes a great penetrating broadhead ! I have never said that Rage will "outpenetrate" some of the heads you talked about. I did say: 1. I think it is a OVERALL better head than any fixed I ever shot. When you consider flight, penetration, damage, blood trail, how quickly it can put an animal down, and the room for error you have with a 2" cutting diameter BH. (Please don't give me the shoulder shot because ALL BH's can have problems with this area). Also, penetration is only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to a great BH. How can 100,000's of bowhunters all be wrong? Why do so many of the bowhunters that do it for a living (TV people) use the Rage if there livlihood depended on it? Please don't say money because that is simply one manufacture that is paying to sponsor the show. It certainly wouldn't come close to paying all the bills. And these guys on tv can pretty much pick any BH manufacture to sponsor them and pay them but they choose the Rage. If they were losing/wounding all these animals they couldn't make a show. They only have so much time (hunting season) to get their kills in. I just don't understand why it is such a mission for some of you guys to continue the bashing of Rage heads when it has been proven out to be a very good head. Just like a lot of BH's out there. Why don't you simply talk/brag about what you think is a great BH and leave the bashing out of it. I am done with this thread. Good luck hunting!! |
This is the main reason I just can't stand hunting shows. They are going to promote who ever pays them the most money not what's best for the average archer.
The average archer from what i have seen are not very well verused on the proper bow tuning skills. What they see on hunting shows and commericals is what they think. Mechanicals fly like field piont and they take that statement and never shoot there broadheads to find out exactly how they fly and penetrate. That said a person should always test his hunting setup for tune after you get it close with field points whether mechanical or fixed so you know what to expect. To me the Rage head along with any other large dia. expandable head need to be shot from a bow that is a very fast 330+ IBO then shot atleast a 400 grain arrow not including the head so they can get the best possible penetration and allow for more margin of error. But it doesn't matter of the bow shoots 400 fps if it isn't properly tuned you are asking for trouble. By properly tuned I don't mean take to the bow shop and have them tune it you have to tune for you not the guy standing behind the counter. All you have done when you have someone else tune your bow without you being the shooter is waste your money and is not going to be right for "you". It isn't the broadhead or what ever fault if you make a bad shot or don't get good penetration it the person holding that bow fault for not taking the time to tune then test there setup. I wish they would ban expandable heads then alot of the fly by the seat of my pants bowhunters, which I used to be one when I didn't know any better, would give up and quit because there bow won't shoot right and in all reality it wasn't shooting right with the mechanicals either. Yeah it would take sometime and so hard lessons but it would happen which is probly better for the sport as a whole. I wish in Missouri everyone had to qualify, it would be a pain but it sure would weed out the flock a bit wouldn't it? From my experiences machanicals have to many things that can go wrong when compared to fixed blades even if both are tuned properly. I want to know I have done everything I can to make the kill as clean as possible and if I make a bad shot then I want something that is going to help me ie fixed heads not expandables. You don't have to have a large dia. head to harvest and animal all it takes is a well placed feild point when it comes down to it not that I would try for the same reason as I choose not to shoot mechanical to much can and will go wrong!!!!!! |
Got my first pass threw today! I shot a little far back so I will go find her in the morning, it was only a doe but it was my first!
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You really don't read very well. I have never said that Rage will "outpenetrate" some of the heads you talked about. I did say: 1. I think it is a OVERALL better head than any fixed I ever shot. When you consider flight, penetration, damage, blood trail, how quickly it can put an animal down, and the room for error you have with a 2" cutting diameter BH. (Please don't give me the shoulder shot because ALL BH's can have problems with this area). flight isn't an issue with a well tuned bow damage is done with maximum penetration blood trails are best with maximum penetration and entry/exit holes quickly putting down means maximum cutting/penetration you don't want to discuss shoulder shots because Rage is horrible at penetration and actually a single bevel 2 blade will BREAK bone instead of cutting - true fact Also, penetration is only one piece of the puzzle when it comes to a great BH. a great broadhead is durable, it will never fail you, its ultra sharp, strong bladed and gives you maximum chance when an animal is shot with it Rage fails to live up to ANY of that How can 100,000's of bowhunters all be wrong? Why do so many of the bowhunters that do it for a living (TV people) use the Rage if there livlihood depended on it? Please don't say money because that is simply one manufacture that is paying to sponsor the show. It certainly wouldn't come close to paying all the bills. its gimmic and its marketed by those who know how to market And these guys on tv can pretty much pick any BH manufacture to sponsor them and pay them but they choose the Rage. If they were losing/wounding all these animals they couldn't make a show. They only have so much time (hunting season) to get their kills in. I just don't understand why it is such a mission for some of you guys to continue the bashing of Rage heads when it has been proven out to be a very good head. Just like a lot of BH's out there. ITS HORRIBLE - I have proven that to you simply by your avoidance to discuss it ! Why don't you simply talk/brag about what you think is a great BH and leave the bashing out of it. I am done with this thread. Good luck hunting!! tell me how many African animals have you taken with Rage? hmmm ? the answer is none, African nations don't allow mechanicals ! Aren't there some states that STILL don't allow them for elk ? why would that be? BECUASE THEY SUCK at the one thing we, as bowhunters, strive for - PENETRATION and ENTRY and EXIT HOLES Still no comments on those videos too huh? |
Originally Posted by thunderchickenfrenzy
(Post 3709782)
Got my first pass threw today! I shot a little far back so I will go find her in the morning, it was only a doe but it was my first!
Any animal a person chooses to take should be getting the same respect as a 200" buck. Again another knock against hunting shows!!!! They should be banned also!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
You may have only got a pass through because you could have just hit her in stomach? Doesn't take much to pass though when hit there.
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Originally Posted by annika3
(Post 3709393)
I Believe I answered your questions but you didn't answer mine. Talk about dancing?
If I got invited I would test out a few heads and go with the one that flies the best out of my setup. Now how about answering my question. It's a simple question. Which guy would you think has better knowledge of the head. A guy that has taken many does and 8 P&Y bucks with the head (Snypers/Rage) or a guy that has NEVER used the head? "8 P&Y bucks" means very little to me, I've not killed a buck in several years as I have seen very few that would "qualify" to be on my wall. Access for me has waned over the last few years as some of the places I once hunted have been sold, or leased out from under me, so just because you may live in a good area and have good access, doesn't necessarily give you any more credibility. From what I've read here, Ranger seems to have his head screwed on pretty straight, seems to have a little more varied experience, and he seems to have the best interest for the sport of BOWHUNTING at hand, while I see you (annika) ONLY here to push a product that you would appear (irregardless of your "claims" that you don't get any benefit, because this IS the INTERNET, and people LIE all the time here) to have a vested interest in, which would still only lead me to a$$ume that there is a monetary reward for your extreme level of "FANBOYISM!!!" Honest??? Absolutely, like it or not, that's my very honest observation. As a budget and results minded person, I've bought BH's that are good for multiple shots while also being extremely effective, for less than ONE pack of "your" Rages, I can get a pack of my BH's and a pack of extra blades, I have lost ONE BH while killing 11 animals, I still have enough extra blades for reloads on the remaining 2 of the 3 to reload them 3 times, while still being cheaper, and as effective, better penetrating, and more durable, than the product you push. So what is the AVERAGE # of kills a "budget-minded" guy could get out of a 3 pack of rages (I say this because with the $35 I spent, you could only get one 3-pack of rages on average, no replacement blades, or extra heads, just ONE 3 pack)???? |
I'm almost afraid to ask because this thread is kinda crazy right now! But I have to! I am shooting Gold Tip XT Hunters Crested 5575's. I think that they weigh about 300 grains. My Mathews bow is shooting 325-330 with a properly IBO weighted arrow. Are y'all saying that my 125 grain Rage 2 blade will not work because my arrow isn't heavy enough?
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lovethebigguns
linear momentum is what drives your arrows through - the mass weight of an object means it will not shed its energy as quickly, design matters too because again, the loss in energy needed for penetration to ansewr your question - your Rage will work fine on a perfect broadside shot, in fact any broadhead will, even a dull and rusty old Satellite will work fine because the thinner rib bones of deer coupled with the power of your compound will kill with about any setup you choose but - and this is so very important - its the not so perfect shots that matter you choose, as a bowhunter, to take the best shot you can but you're super excited when a big buck comes in, he almost will never be 100% broadside and head down, a deer can always move at the sound of your shot, or even just as you release, there might always be an unseen branch, the distances often will be a few yards closer or farther away than you guess and then of course, you can always pull your shot a bit, punch instead of squeeze your release ...... there are a hell of a lot of factors involved, just go buy Real Tree 2011 dvd's and only about 1/2 of their shots are perfect and they do this for a living ! so, knowing that often shots aren't exactly where you want them to go, do you want a setup that is designed to give you maximum penetration, and will give you best chances when the shots don't go perfect, or are you happy using a setup that will only work on perfect shots ? tradgang.com has all the Ashby reports - incredible knowledge there, and applicable in many ways to compound now, I KNOW a single bevel, 2 blade tanto point head, heavy FOC arrow and small diameter shafts are the best penetrating combo for anybody. its fact, proven, undisputable I'm not using that this year. Why? because in my current setup, a 64 pound compound, ICS 400 carbons with weight tubes - I have found a Slicj Trick RazorTrick to fly extremely well. I chose this head because its razor tipped, coi, heavy thick blades that are almost bomb proof in design. its a 4 blade head which WILL reduce my penetration - but I'm in the 550 gr total weight range, and I'm choosing this setup expecting to be in pretty good shape. I'd never use a Rage or another mechanical head because the penetration qualities are just poor overall in design and functionalitiy. I've used them before, I've killed animals with them before, I've watched my buddy's lose deer to them to - I'm not unfamiliar with mechanicals or Rage heads at all - I'm just wiser than I use to be :) did you watch the videos I posted? horrible penetration on pretty good shots -imagine if those shots were any worse ? I want an entry and exit hole, a coi head that will break through bone if I hit and a total weight that will power my combination of arrow and head through the animals retaining as much energy on impact as it can. |
I would suggest using yellow carbon express weight tubes - they'll ass 80-100 grains to your total arrow weight then I'd go to a Slick Trick, a Muzzy or a Steel Force .... a good non-mechanical of your choice.
My uncle called me a few days ago and had shot and lost a big 8 point near St Charles MO. he was shooting 2215 arrows I think and 100 gr mechanicals. I told him what I'm telling everyone here - go heavier and fixed. He went to a 2219 shaft I think he said plus he went to 150 grain 3 blade fixed blade heads and yesterday afternoon, walking to his stand he had a buck walking towards him. He shoots the buck in the brisket, drops it down, it runs 30 yards and dies, he calls me on the cell phone and says he don't know where the arrows is and I told him to stick his finger inthe big hole and he says yep, the nock is right there ! nice 9 point, not a monster, one of the blades he said on the head was bent but dang, he shot through a brisket bone and got great penetration. He was shooting a cross bow he went heavier, and fixed and his penetration issues dissappeared like magic |
Originally Posted by lovethebigguns
(Post 3710101)
I'm almost afraid to ask because this thread is kinda crazy right now! But I have to! I am shooting Gold Tip XT Hunters Crested 5575's. I think that they weigh about 300 grains. My Mathews bow is shooting 325-330 with a properly IBO weighted arrow. Are y'all saying that my 125 grain Rage 2 blade will not work because my arrow isn't heavy enough?
300gr arrows travel 325fps...... KE = 70ft/# of KE, and the ability to set your first pin at 30yds realistically, but also the bow will be significantly louder. a 400gr arrow will travel about 290-295fps KE = 77ft/# and the ability to still have a first pin set at 25yds with no hold-over or under out to nearly 30 really (only about 2.4" low at thirty), you could realistically set your second pin at 35yds (about 6" difference between 25 and 30yds when zero'd for 25yds, and a third pin at 45yds as there is only about 7" drop between 35 and 45..... You gain tunability (especially with Fixed BH), energy (7ft/# of KE), and your bow would be quieter. These are close estimates, but the speed with the 400gr arrow may very well be HIGHER as most bows tend to become MORE EFFICIENT with heavier arrows as well, and you might find that with a 400gr arrow, the bow becomes quiter, more efficient, and rather than the "expected" 295 fps, you may end up still at 300fps, and gain even more energy than estimated!!! Hope some of that helps, obviously, it becomes quite apparent who the guys are here to help other hunters/archers, and who is here to promote his product....... :busted: Ranger, I'd buy you a :guiness: if I ever met you in person..... :happy0001: |
MORE EFFICIENT annika3 where are you? you realize by abandoning a thread and not answering the most obvious of questions, the wool over people eyes will be even more quickly removed to your Rage broadheads, right? at least TRY to argue and hold on for a few more sales by misleading people, right ? |
Thunder, I wasn't trying to hijack your thread! I just thought it was the right time and place to ask. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question guys. What you are saying makes sense. And yes Ranger I did watch all the videos and I'll admit, I was perplexed by the lack of penetration. They all really looked like good shots.
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