Bashing crossbows?
07-03-2003, 07:17 AM
#42
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Bashing crossbows?
If it was the first time I' d heard something like that, Kevin, I could pass it off. But it' s not. Same thing was being said in the 70' s about compounds, that we should move over and make room for them. Look where we' re at today. Stickbow shooters are a huge minority.
Look what happened in Ohio, where people moved over and made room for crossbows. People shooting compounds and stickbows combined are in the minority. Crossbows rule. In bow season!
I' m not in favor of crossbows in bow season. At all. But I feel the ' advances' that are being embraced by compounders are making it darn difficult to argue that there' s enough demonstable difference between compounds and crossbows - that non archers can readily see and understand - to be able to hold the door closed against them much longer. The non archers that I' m most worried about are fish and game commissioners and legislators, the ones that will ultimately decide the issue.
My point is, and has been, that any compound shooters who are also opposed to crossbows had better reassess their equipment choices and quit making the argument easier for the crossbow crowd.
That' s the only point I' ve been trying to make.
Look what happened in Ohio, where people moved over and made room for crossbows. People shooting compounds and stickbows combined are in the minority. Crossbows rule. In bow season!
I' m not in favor of crossbows in bow season. At all. But I feel the ' advances' that are being embraced by compounders are making it darn difficult to argue that there' s enough demonstable difference between compounds and crossbows - that non archers can readily see and understand - to be able to hold the door closed against them much longer. The non archers that I' m most worried about are fish and game commissioners and legislators, the ones that will ultimately decide the issue.
My point is, and has been, that any compound shooters who are also opposed to crossbows had better reassess their equipment choices and quit making the argument easier for the crossbow crowd.
That' s the only point I' ve been trying to make.
07-03-2003, 07:26 AM
#43
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: Bashing crossbows?
6ptsika ,
are your woods not large enough for all ? Arthur P lives where there is virtually no public land , so his position is completely understandable . When faced with a large number of competitors I chose to redouble my efforts to gain private access , and was successful in that endevour , which is pretty much what my reply to Rack was saying . It' s hard to give up a spot where you' ve hunted since childhood because of competition , but you' d have to on private land if the owner decided to discontinue hunting access too . I had to face that when the property owner next door to one of my spots complained about the noise . Even though I still had permission to hunt there I decided to move on , I considered it the only gracious thing to do even though I was in the right . I' m not sure what the public land situation is in NJ , or the availability of private access in your area , would you care to enlighten me ? It would make it easier to understand your position .
are your woods not large enough for all ? Arthur P lives where there is virtually no public land , so his position is completely understandable . When faced with a large number of competitors I chose to redouble my efforts to gain private access , and was successful in that endevour , which is pretty much what my reply to Rack was saying . It' s hard to give up a spot where you' ve hunted since childhood because of competition , but you' d have to on private land if the owner decided to discontinue hunting access too . I had to face that when the property owner next door to one of my spots complained about the noise . Even though I still had permission to hunt there I decided to move on , I considered it the only gracious thing to do even though I was in the right . I' m not sure what the public land situation is in NJ , or the availability of private access in your area , would you care to enlighten me ? It would make it easier to understand your position .
07-03-2003, 07:36 AM
#44
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: East Yapank NY USA
Posts: 3,457
RE: Bashing crossbows?
I can' t understand why you would wish to deny someone else the experience simply because you disagree with their choice of equipment
DENY someone the experience???????? The same people who will be in the woods for the FIRST time during archery season toting their crossrifle have had the same bowseason staring them in the face for 20 yrs!!!!! THEY have on their own accord denied themselves the great experience of bowhunting for their entire hunting lives!! I am not stoping them from doing anything they could of done 20 yrs ago - if they chose to be bowhunters. But they are not! they are rifle hunters with an EASY way in. PERIOD
They define it as archery equipment , not firearms . This is why my state allows them for Late Archery , and keeps them out of the Firearm seasons
And Arthur is right - It has NOTHING to do with population control - There are much, much better ways of doing that - IT is all about MONEY, about the 100,000' s of dollars of equipment sales and license revenue it will bring in.
07-03-2003, 08:03 AM
#45
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: Bashing crossbows?
WV Hunter ,
since my state now allows them for all , if only in a limited way , disability is not the issue . As I replied to Rack I never said they were " in the same ballpark" , only similar , and not everyone wants one . The hunter should have a choice of any legal equipment , and that equipment should be used in any season where that tool is legal to use . Both fire an arrow/bolt that performs in similar fashion , both projectiles are subject to wind and drop , both use a string under pressure of a bent bar to launch the projectile . These are some of the fundamental elements of archery regardless of the device used . As others pointed out , many archers use trigger activated releases , you can now scope a bow , and the modern compound bow is far from primative . I don' t know if you' re old enough to remember the fuss in the 70s when compounds first became legal , but the arguments against them from the bowhunting community were eerily similar to many of the posts on this thread . " Too modern" (Crossbows are at least 1,500 years old , and predate firearms) , " Not a real bow" (Really , a stick with a string launching a feathered stick) , " Less skill involved" (Have you any experience with them?) , " Not real archery" (See previous) . Remember , the modern compound bow was originally advertised as a " modern arrow launching device" , which is probably what stirred the pot in the first place back then . You don' t have to like or shoot crossbows , but they have a right to be in the woods just as much as you do if that' s what hunters want and DNR agrees . DNR' s primary responsibility is to the resources they manage , but the wishes of the hunting community as primary supporters of them must also be considered .
since my state now allows them for all , if only in a limited way , disability is not the issue . As I replied to Rack I never said they were " in the same ballpark" , only similar , and not everyone wants one . The hunter should have a choice of any legal equipment , and that equipment should be used in any season where that tool is legal to use . Both fire an arrow/bolt that performs in similar fashion , both projectiles are subject to wind and drop , both use a string under pressure of a bent bar to launch the projectile . These are some of the fundamental elements of archery regardless of the device used . As others pointed out , many archers use trigger activated releases , you can now scope a bow , and the modern compound bow is far from primative . I don' t know if you' re old enough to remember the fuss in the 70s when compounds first became legal , but the arguments against them from the bowhunting community were eerily similar to many of the posts on this thread . " Too modern" (Crossbows are at least 1,500 years old , and predate firearms) , " Not a real bow" (Really , a stick with a string launching a feathered stick) , " Less skill involved" (Have you any experience with them?) , " Not real archery" (See previous) . Remember , the modern compound bow was originally advertised as a " modern arrow launching device" , which is probably what stirred the pot in the first place back then . You don' t have to like or shoot crossbows , but they have a right to be in the woods just as much as you do if that' s what hunters want and DNR agrees . DNR' s primary responsibility is to the resources they manage , but the wishes of the hunting community as primary supporters of them must also be considered .
07-03-2003, 08:10 AM
#46
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: AR USA
Posts: 889
RE: Bashing crossbows?
Ar has allowed xbows in archery season for as long as i can remember. if i lived in a state where they were not allowed, then I might feel differently.
but, IMO the xbow hunter has just as much right as the compound bow hunter to hunt public woods. I don' t care if he' s disabled or not. leave the man alone and let him hunt and enjoy his life.
but, IMO the xbow hunter has just as much right as the compound bow hunter to hunt public woods. I don' t care if he' s disabled or not. leave the man alone and let him hunt and enjoy his life.
07-03-2003, 08:21 AM
#47
Dominant Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Ramsey , Indiana
Posts: 22,545
RE: Bashing crossbows?
Again Rack not everyone wants a stick bow , many are put off from trying them for the very reasons you embrace them . That is their choice to make , and they should be able to decide what tool is best for them . And once again they are not as easy to use as you seem to think . I do gun hunt , as do you , but I wouldn' t carp about someone using an Uzi in the woods if the general consensus made it legal . I wouldn' t like it , but I would support my fellow hunter' s choice . Arthur may be right about the money issue , God knows our DNR could use it after suffering yet another cut in their funding by the state , but it would not be the only factor in their decision . It' s also easy to forget that while hunters are one of the larger contributors to any F&W dept. they aren' t the only ones . Fishermen actually contribute more in my state , and anyone who hikes , backpacks , camps , etc. on state properties also contributes to the greater good of the resorces we ALL use . You are entitled to believe in whatever state suits you , as I am , and I support your right to do so . Personally , I have no fear of the future , I think it holds great promise for all .
07-03-2003, 08:31 AM
#48
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Glenwood Iowa
Posts: 880
RE: Bashing crossbows?
Anyone here get Field & Stream magazine? Wife bought me a subscription for Christmas last year. Not my favorite but I look it over every month. Anyway in the last month or so, they have a several page article with lots of research showing that the number of hunters has dropped by the Millions in the last twenty years. And that 20 years from now, the number of hunters will be such a small percentage of the voice of the people, they' ll have little or no say in the laws of the land. With that said, I' ll vote let them hunt the archery season!. If it means bringing more folks back into hunting and possibly saving our sport, then great!
Besides, I' ve done some serious testing with a Ten Point Stealth crossbow and can say that most of what is said about crossbows, is said without fact and mostly on emotion. They' re closer to a compound than they are a muzzleloader. But, knowing us humans as I do, I' ll bet that emotion will win out over reason most every time.[:' (]
Besides, I' ve done some serious testing with a Ten Point Stealth crossbow and can say that most of what is said about crossbows, is said without fact and mostly on emotion. They' re closer to a compound than they are a muzzleloader. But, knowing us humans as I do, I' ll bet that emotion will win out over reason most every time.[:' (]
07-03-2003, 09:57 AM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Bashing crossbows?
If it was the first time I' d heard something like that, Kevin, I could pass it off. But it' s not. Same thing was being said in the 70' s about compounds, that we should move over and make room for them. Look where we' re at today. Stickbow shooters are a huge minority.
It' s not like the archery season was flooded by gun hunters in the seventies who found a new interest in archery due to the compound bow. The overwhelming majority of " new compound" shooters in the seventies were traditional shooters before that , myself included , who just wanted to change with the times and try new and exciting things.
It' s funny how the true agendas of those who are against xbows in archery season show themselves eventually everytime this thread gets going.
Selfishness!
Ya' ll fear that if you have to share the woods with xbows the season harvests are going to sky rocket and your lengthy seasons will be shortened
][:' (]If a xbow is so much like a gun , how about giving up part of your archery season to xbow hunters. Like maybe the length of your gun season should be given to xbow hunters in October?
I' ll bet it sounds like a good idea to you as long as it doesn' t take any days from the regular archery season , right?