So crossbow are legal now......
 

in Maryland. What is everyones thought? I have mixed feelings.

here we go again:s13: i'd like to know what your mixed feelings are?

They are legal in Oklahoma now too. I'm getting one next week. I think it's an awesome thing. Recurve hunters resisted compounds. Now I see compound hunters resisting crossbows.

It's the evolution of hunting and I think it's awesome. Just like how inline muzzleloaders got more hunters in the field. Shoot what you like, but don't begrudge others for doing the same.

idk my veiws are if your hurt or unable to draw a bow sure get out in the feild and use it but come on archery season you shouldnt be able to use somthing with a scope that all you do is point aim shoot no drawing or nothing may as well use a shotgun or somthing ive got one and aint bashing people for using them but i think itsgetting away from what Archery hunting is


PFC Connor

Yeah, and inlines got away from traditional blackpowder. And compounds ruined traditional recurve hunting.

According to many recurve purists, you're a disgrace to the sport if you use a compound. So, if you're using a compound bow to shoot deer then you're cheating. Of course you would dispute this, just like a crossbow user would dispute your claims. :poke:

They've been legal in Arkansas for a long time and do not seem to hurt anything. Same range issues as a compound.

In the evolution of "archery" hunting the crossbow should have been legal long before the compound bow became legal. The crossbow has been around for hundreds, if not thousands, of years before the invention of the compound bow.

If it uses a "bow" and a string to propel an arrow then it is archery equipment and should be legal during archery season.

The don't call it compound bow season or long bow season. They call it archery season and a crossbow is archery equipment.

So all the naysayers can get off their high horses and welcome the new hunters that crossbow hunting will bring to the sport and help keep the old hunters that are no longer archery hunting... God knows we need them.

The crossbow was used in Europe starting around the 12th century. Invented in China. The technology hasn't changed much, They even used devices to pull the bow back and set it in a nock, the bolt went in a groove. Why they are illegal in some places is beyond me. Feel good politics I guess.

First off let me say I do not own a crossbow nor will I probably ever will. I can shoot my vertical bow very well thank you. But regardless of that I see no reason why the crossbow should not be legalized nationwide. To bicker over such silliness is just what the antis look to try and separate our numbers (divide and conquer ring a bell?). Its legal, live with it. From what I've read where they are legal, statistics show that the harvest numbers are not affected by the use of crossbows.

Recurve...compound...crossbow...even sling-shot, it all comes down to getting your target in range for an ethical/lethal shot. That's where you, the hunter you say you are, becomes the main part of the equation. I don't care what you use to seal the deal, just do it legally and ethically.

This is my point of view as for my reason for being against cross bows. If you read back through some of my old old posts I've had enough encounters with total idiots, now this is how I see crossbows, It doesn't really matter about the public opinion (Imo) they'll do what they want.

Ryan.

On a side note another problem I see with them is it makes shooting out of a vehicle 10000x easier because hey lets face it how many times in the woods have you heard someones bow go off?

Attachment 10056

Best post in the whole thread

Agreed! I've heard all these arguments a long time ago, when compounds came onto the scene. They weren't alway legal either.:popcorn:

When I was "able" to shoot a compound I always said I would NEVER go to a crossbow, NO WAY NEVER HAPPEN! If can't shoot a compound I will quit bow hunting!

Well, few surgeries later and a Dr. that told me never to shoot compound again or pull anything with weight. I thought do I want to really quit bow hunting at the age of 34 just because of my pride???

Next DR's appointment I took the form in to have him fill out so I could shoot a crossbow because here in Missouri it is not legal without a DR.'s excuse.

To me hunting with a crossbow is just as hard as a compound because there shots I can't take with crossbow that a could with a compound. I was more accurate with my compound than I am with the crossbow and that is a fact. Crossbows weigh alot more than a compound and are harder to get around with in the woods or stand. Forget about 2nd shots!

It took me needing to use one to find out that it was NO easier to hunt deer with a crossbow. JMHO

Also I would have no problem if Missouri made crossbows legal for everyone.

Okay I'll be the bad guy and confess to my reasons I still oppose their inclusion in bow season.

First ask yourself this; why do we have primitive weapons seasons? Any and all game management goals could be met just by using gun seasons. Want more animals killed? Lengthen the season, increase bag limits, or issue more gun tags. Want less killed then do the opposite. So what is the purpose of a particular season like muzzleloader or bow season? To me those seasons exist to promote the use of a particular weapon so that the skills associated with it will not fade from our collective consciousness. Want to be able to kill an extra deer or hunt a few extra weeks then the price of that option is to learn to use a bow or a muzzleloader. You get more hunting time and that weapons use is preserved in our society.

Now comes crossbows being dumped into bow season. Anytime you give people an easier option they will take it. Oh sure there won't be much of an immediate effect because all the older hands like myself who already have bows and know how to shoot them aren't likely to undergo the unnecessary added expense of buying a crossbow and decking it out with everything needed to make it woods ready when we already have a bow. But what about the young kids? All they want here in Alabama now is a crossbow. Why? Simple, it's easier. Why learn to shoot a bow with proper form; worry about learning to tuning a bow; fuss with over or under spined arrows; get busted trying to draw on a deer under your tree; be handicapped by a short draw length; etc, etc. Just get a crossbow. Minutes to master with no effort on your part and bow season is all yours.

It's the same dumbing down of America you see across the board. Don't demand that our kids study harder to get the national grade average up, just make the tests easier. That will get the scores up too. End result is the same right? LOL! God help us.

And in that same vein lets discuss what was at the root of the crossbow push in this country. MONEY!!! Ding! Ding! Ding!
There was no grass roots crossbow movement. No crowd of people clamoring for crossbows. Handicapped people could already use them. This will not get anyone into hunting that wasn't at least already gun hunting. It wasn't for the children. This was a push purely by crossbow companies and associated businesses that stand to profit from the inclusion of crossbows in bow season. Crossbow companies dream of selling one to every gun hunter in America and outfitters dream of being able to sell archery season hunts to thousands of gun hunters that heretofore could not master a bow. So they bribed state game commissions to open the door for them to make big profits. End of list.

If national crossbow advocates, and I've never met one that didn't stand to profit off them somehow, want a season then give them a separate one. But don't take the season that others have fought so hard for.

A modern compound 90% plus let off, steady rest, drop away, scpe sight, shot with a trigger at 350fps plus is hardly a primitive weapon. So little to do to become hunting proficient with one that a good number using them practise no more then the average gun hunter. Fred Bear promoted their sale as the way for a gun hunter to easily become a 2 season hunter.

That season was fought for by those shooting recurves and longbows that required a lot of work to become and stay proficient with. Not anything like the modern compound. Take the compound out of bow season or let all archery tackle in. It is just that simple.

Compounds are still far harder to master and much closer to a recurve than a crossbow. Crossbows are ****ed all the time while hunting, can be fired from a rested position and are aimed like a gun. There is absolutely nothing about the skill needed to use or hit something with a crossbow that is even remotely similar to shooting a bow of any kind, be it recurve, longbow or compound.

And ask yourself this, if compounds are so easy then why would gun hunters need crossbows?

Did he mention crossbows? No! Wonder why? They existed in his time as well. Why didn't he promote them as a way to be a two season hunter?

The people in those traditional archery clubs and organizations that fought for and got bow seasons agree with me.

Same argument could be used to allow unscoped handguns into bow season. Hey, they have a similar effective range right? That's all that matters right?

It was made legal during archery season a couple of years ago in Ky. but I have only seen two people with a crossbow and one of them was with us in camp and could have used it anyhow because of a disability. I didn't care much for the fact that they made it legal here either but it has really been unoticed in my opinion. They are kinda cumbersome to carry through the woods.

In Alabama you don't have a primitive weapons season or a bow season. You have archery, muzzle loading and general gun season. Since your season is an archery season and not a primitive weapons season or a bow season, you should have absolutely no objection what so ever to crossbows being used during this archery season.

As I already stated Alabama does not have a bow season but even if Alabama called it bow season a crossbow is in fact a "bow". If they called it a primitive weapons season you loose this argument as well because crossbows have been around since about 600B.C. which is about 2500 years before the compound bow.

Crossbows are archery equipment no matter how you want to argue it and they are far more primitive than compound bows.

And you know this how? Are you overseeing all of the archery sales in Alabama? How many 8 - 10 year old kids can pull back the legal minimum of 35 pounds? Should they not be allowed to hunt during the archeryseason? Why should a kid that can't muster the strength to pull 35 pounds on a compound bow not be allowed the opportunity to deer hunt? Are you that selfish to deny children the opportunity to enjoy hunting with their fathers?

Wow, that statement is so ridiculously absurd that there are no appropriate words.

Perhaps, because they were able to legally hunt with a crossbow at an earlier age, the kids that got out there at that younger age became that much more proficient in their hunting, tracking, shot placement, and general woodsman skills and hunting ethics than the children that were required to wait 2-4 more years. How exactly is it a bad thing to get a child hunting and learning the woods at a younger age than he or she would have been able to with out a crossbow?

Heaven forbid a company make a profit and at the same time introduce people to the sport of hunting. Do you honestly believe that the same wan't true of compounds "back in the day"?

I didn't realize that the crossbow advocates and states game management comissions have excluded you and other non crossbow hunters from hunting in the hard faught archery seasons across the country.

Except the pistol uses gunpowder as a propellent and goes boom - hence they are a gun.

Quote:

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Muzzleloaders predate compounds too. By your logic I guess we'll have them in bow season next. Another nonsense point by you.

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Again - they use gunpowder and goes boom - hence they are a gun. Logic puts all guns in gun season and all archery equipment in bow seasons.

The crossbow your talking about it totally different. Most with a yew wooded prod, or horn and sinew.

Its going to be a freakin nightmare in MD this year. I was down at bass pro last week and arrow-guns are flyin off the shelf.

Overheard two younguns talking with the sales assocciate. He was telling them they can easily take deer at 50 yards. One of the kids said he has taken deer at 60 yards with his x-arrow gun.

If the deer seasons are not about tradition, and only about pulling in hunters, and deer management, then they should make MD deer season, weapon of choise. Shotgun, bow, arrow-gun.

But if it is about tradition. If it is about learning that the easiest way is not the most satisfying, and nothing easy is worth a darn, then arrow guns should only be allowed during gun season.

I freakin dread the season this year with all these slobs.

So is trying to say a modern compound has anything to do with the real bows that the seasons where started with.

I don't know, I didn't start with a modern wheelie.

I could care less if people hunt with crossbows, there are no advantages to shooting them at all. If you have done your homework and scouted in the off-season, then who really cares if people sporting crossbows hunt your same woods? Just get in the woods and hunt. It is not like a guy shooting a crossbow can set his crossbow to semi-automatic and mow down a herd of deer. :)

How about we concentrate on those who want to ban hunting, and leave each other alone? (I have never used a crossbow, just recurve, compound, muzzleloader, rifle, shotgun). But, we have enough people against us without turning on each other.

Are modern compound bows and a modern inline muzzle loader primitive weapons? That was your first attempt to prove a nonexistent point. I shot it down with the fact that you don't have a primitive weapons season in Alabama to begin with and even if you do still want to lump compound bows and modern in-line muzzle loaders as "primitive weapons" the fact that a crossbow is 2500 more years primitive than the compound bow and about 1700 more years primitive than the black powder gun solidifies that your point is based on nothing more than selfishness.


I never even remotely suggested such nonsense. Keep it in context if you can. Muzzle loaders are firearms and crossbows are archery equipment. I hope that you are aware of the difference but if not I will be glad to explain the differences to you.

Is it too much to imagine the father helping the child out just as he would with a rile or shotgun?

No, the fact that someone would make such a feeble attempt to connect the "dumbing down of America" to a kid hunting with a crossbow is as lame an argument one could make in this thread.

Lump thiese with the above "dumbing down of America" comment that you made. Absolutely absurd.

I think I will leave that up to mom and dad to decide how mature their children are and when and what they should hunt with. It isn't up to my judgement and it sure as heck isn't yours either.


Face it. Your arguments hold about as much water as one of these.



You are correct. I'd like to point out though that long bows and compound bows are as different from each other as the 2500 year old crossbows and modern crossbows so I'm not getting the point of this statement. Both long bows and compound bows are perfectly legal bows during archery season. And to get right down to it, the long bow is separated by thousands of more years from the modern compound than what is separating the crossbows.

I hear dozens of those stories every bow season buy compound bow "hunters". I have told people I wouldn't sell them a bow simply because they were in there to buy the fastest compound bow made so that they could take a deer at 100 yards. I hear it far more from compound bow hunters than I do crossbow hunters.

There were people in Alabama making the same arguments as this when Alabama legalized crossbows during archery season and they have proven to be completely unfounded. We sold more crossbows that first year than we did compound bows and the woods and the deer are just as they were before crossbows became legal some 7-ish years ago.

What fun would that be?

I don't think anyone is "turning" on each other. Just arguing our points of view.

I think it goes past that, and causes a lot of discontent. As a matter of fact, I urge anyone who wants to bowhunt but is not comfortable with a compound/recurve/longbow to buy a crossbow and hunt (if legal in your state). The excise tax you will pay will help the sport. Also, join the NRA, as they are trying to protect all hunting. NWTF is another good organization, as well as SCI and others.

20 years ago, I griped about the "cross-gun" hunters, but I have gotten wiser with age.

Well, thats what supposal experts say about MD, when they legalized them for certain parts of the season a few years ago. The people for them, still say it made no impact. But as a person who hunts alot, I am here to tell you they are full of crap and spin. Pure freakin idiots. But I seriously doubt anything could change your mind.

Exactly. The pro crossbow guys always try to dump that "you're selfish and don't want children to be able to hunt" or "you don't want to share the woods" nonsense on you which is ridiculous and not true. I welcome all to bow season. Just bring a bow.

If the point was really to get more people out there in the woods then hell lets just cut loose with whatever you got from day one. Gun, crossbow, compound, recurve, handgun, etc, etc. Wouldn't that get more people out there than just crossbows? Of course it would. So if you are taking the let's get more people out there line then at least advocate that and don't look like a hypocrite.

But of course they don't want that. First, because they don't really give a rats @$$ about how many people hunt. And secondly, because people already have guns and if you let them use them in archery season then they wouldn't have to "BUY" anything. LOL! And that brings us back to the real reason for the massive crossbow push across America. Back room bribes to game commisions to open the pathway to sell crossbows to gun hunters. That is all this was about. End of list.

The particularly nauseating line is that this was done for and will be of great benefit for "The Children." That is such a vile and slimey lie that it really should be criminal to spew it onto a public forum where someone might step in it. Crossbow hunting or bow hunting here in Alabama has to be done from treestands for the most part. And not some 12 foot buddy ladder stand either. About 25 feet off the ground is the minimum. I know of no parent that lets their 8 year old kid go 25 feet up a tree with a lethal weapon. Especially one like a crossbow that could literally take their finger off if they got it in front of the string. Any kid old enough to go solo 25 to 30 foot up a tree with a crossbow is old enough to shoot a bow. So lets put that canard to rest right here. That this was in any way done for children is utter bull####!!

If it was done for children then why didn't they just legalize crossbows for children then. LOL!!! I'll tell you why. Cause they wouldn't have sold any, that's why. LOL!!!

Common sense is at a all time low when it comes to arrow guns.

You may be breaking forum rules actually bring up valid points.:s13:

Just keep saying, "its for the kids", and you can get any point pushed.

I don't remember anyone saying that it was "just for the children" but kids are part of the big picture.

You don't have a leg to stand on in this argument. Every argument you have attempted to make has been easily shot right out of the sky. Primitive weapons shot down. Crossbows not being archery equipment shot down. Their all slob hunters that are going to woulnd and kill all the deer completely unfounded as state after state can prove otherwise. Crossbows are just like guns and lets just all have one long hunting season, just absurd. Nothing that either of you has brought to the argument has any foundation.

This is nothing more than history repeating itself.
The traditional muzzle loader guys had the same gripe about inlines.
The traditional bow guys had the same arguments about compounds when they showed up to the hunting scene.
Both groups had zero valid points as time has showed and neither of you have a valid point about crossbows now. Just the same ole tired argument.

Not up to the individual hunter
 

The state rules. The needed deer harvest rules. The number of available licensed hunters in the state rules. All states are different and can't be the same.

Some states approved inline muzzleloaders and crossbows because of smaller numbers of hunters in that state, and a large harvest of deer needed.

It's not by magic that states with large numbers of hunters have a short firearms season and a shorter archery season. Some states allowed one, or two deer. Some allowed the harvesting of five and more deer in one hunting season.

Again the weapons allowed for hunting depend on the state, the number of deer that need harvesting, and the number of hunters that will spend the time hunting.

When I was young, the state where I hunted, it was one buck per season. One and you were done. For that reason, I never retook up the bow that I shot as a young teen. Couldn't bear to miss the special gun season opener. Nothing against bows at the time. That was just how the hunting season was. Only so many deer to go around for so many hunters.

I live in WV but work in MD. The place I work has about 20 guys that hunt, 2 of which bow hunt. In the last month 10 of the guys that have never picked up a bow all bought Xbows.

After work I have seen some of them shooting them out back. Personally I have never shot a Xbow but got to shoot a Parker Tornado the other day. Open handed my 1st 3 shots were a 3" group at 40 yards. How anyone can say hunting with a Xbow is no easier then hunting with a normal bow is just plain rediculous. I've never even picked up an Xbow prior to this and shot it just fine. Not braggind just saying anyone who can shoot a scoped gun half decent will be fine shooting an Xbow.


I'm not even saying Xbows shouldn't be used but cannot believe someone would post its gives you no real advantage over a normal bow. 1st of all you have optics to help pick out/place a shot much better then with just pins. 2nd theres no muscle memory, movement(or as much), strain of holding back for awhile to worry about. Just point and shoot.

Love em or hate em the legalization of the bows is going to change the amount of folks that are in the woods. The more folks in the field means the bigger chance of dopes being out there. Most of the guys here are of the mind set that it prob takes 10 minutes to site in a Xbow and you are ready to go hunt out to 50/60 yards.

I can guarantee you that due to the new law at least 4 more idiots will be out in the MD woods this year cause I talk to them here at work every day.

Wow, thats comical. Because nothing you have said has a leg to stand on. I have shot it all down and made you look like a fool. But I seriously doubt you could ever see it.

Todd brought up valid points. Of course you will never even attempt to discuss them. I kinda can't blame you. You would lose.

A person is a total idiot if he doesn't see the simularities between a modern X-bow and a rifle. I mean you would have to have a severe low IQ to miss it. I don't know if someone could have an intelligent conversation with someone that dumb.

I couldn't figure out where all this push to have crossbows legal in MD came from. I made complaints, I called the DNR, finally one guy said, its mostly from dealers and rifle hunters. Oh yea, thats right, you are a dealer, are you not? Wow, big surprise.

Nothing you have said has any foundation, but you keep on spewing the crap.

Bottom line is if archery season has nothing to do with tradition, nothing to do with love of archery, and its inherient difficulty and skill it takes. Then a logic intelligent person has only to conclude its about deer management, and that alone, and it should be weapon of choice deer season. Now there is some common sense for you.

I have discussed every single point he has brought up and none of them are valid. If you care to discuss them again please feel free to list them again and I will shoot them down yet again.

Bottom line is if archery season has nothing to do with tradition, nothing to do with love of archery, and its inherient difficulty and skill it takes. Then a logic intelligent person has only to conclude its about deer management, and that alone, and it should be weapon of choice deer season. Now there is some common sense for you.

Why would it be ok for modern x-bows to be ok in archery season but not an open season for weapon of choice?

And I hate to inform you, but you have shot down nothing but make yourself look like a biased dealer.

Who's tradition are you talking about? Yours or the rest of the countries?

They already are. During general gun and most ML seasons youcan use any bow that you wish. Crossbow or otherwise.

You make a big assumption. list his so called valid points again. I have gone over them more than once already. BTW, I never reccomend a crossbow over a compound bow to my customers if they ask my opinion. Remember what they say about the word assume.

Thank you. Thats what I thought. You couldn't discuss one point. But I am not surprised.