With your attitude I can't believe any company wants you representing them. Who pros staff are you on, so I know who not to do business with.

I did take a moment to scan your posts when you 1st posted it, and I found it informative and well written, w/ some good points about the real premises and benefits of QDM. I dont mean to attack the QDMAs philosophy, although I do not agree entirely, or think it works in many situations, I was mostly using the term QDM in a generic way to describe the antler elites out there, who seem to put down others decisions to kill young bucks. as far as getting personal, I tried not to mention anyone by name in a negative way in this topic, so if anyone took any of my strong opinions personally, ma bad

I was thinking the same exact thing!!!

Let me start by saying thank you glew22 for a very informative post. The content and delivery were excellent and we can all take a lesson on how your presented the information. There are a lot of benefits to the mangagement practice but not sure I agee with all of them.

This is not going to be seen as a true benefit by all hunters. There are guys out there that don't care if they ever shoot a mature deer. I think you also need to balance the question to apply to all. It is a benefit ratio issue IMO. Is the increased likehood of encountering a mature deer worth having lower deer numbers over all? I think you would find that many hunters would rather have more opportunites at lesser deer than lesser opprotunity at bigger deer.

When hunters are required to pass on smaller deer they may get to witness certain behavior, they may also not get to shoot a deer. Lets face it, most people are out there to shoot a deer, not neccessarily to shoot a monster. I think this requirement is where most all of the resistance comes from.

I think the breeding related stress is a wash. There could be research to prove me wrong and please let me know if that is the case. While you shorten the time of the rut while simutaneously increasing the intensity they should balance out to be about equal.

Does bred on a secong cycle shouldn't have much effect on fawn survival and optimal timing. Their cycle is 18-21 days so I don't think that three weeks later is enough of a window for this to be of any real benefit.

[QUOTE][QDMA is often misrepresented with suggestions that all the organization cares about is bigger bucks. Yes, bigger antlers and higher body weights may result, but only as a by producted of managing the deer herd on a biological basis. I hope that those reading come to understand that QDM is not only about bigger bucks, it's much more than that./QUOTE]

I think that you believe this. I'm not convinced that the organization does nor the majority of its members. The most common theme put forth by QDM advocates is bigger bucks. Right or wrong that is the face of the organization and that is what it is equated to.

There was an article in Field and Stream last year written on an exclusive hunting club in South Carolina. The members are fined and hunting rights taken away if they shoot a deer under a certain score. The property is managed so that the members can all shoot trophy bucks on a yearly basis. The founder of QDMA was quoted in the article. He said that this property and management system was the pinnacle of QDMA and should serve as the model for those practicing the program. There was no mention of a healthier herd or population dynamics, only everyone shooting a trophy deer every year.

The changes and stresses that settlement has had on deer population will never be reversed. I think that managment strategies should be geard toward the real environment in which the deer live rather than trying to revert to something which will never be possible.


There are many within your ranks that do not share your sentiment. I think that these types have dominated the conversation and are detracting from the group and its goals.

I have been thinking about this thread for more than a day now. In fact, I have sat down several times to post a reply, but just could not come up with the words that best described what I thought.

First let me say, on my farm and on the other properties I hunt, we practice I guess what some call QDM. We believe in shooting a bunch of does, because we have a bunch of does. We also TRY to take only older bucks and let younger bucks walk. We can do this 1. because we have a bunch of does that we use for freezer meat and 2. because we enjoy taking better than average bucks.

With that being said, I understand hunters who have less than quality land to hunt or have limited time to hunt and because of either of those two reasons take younger (small) bucks. In fact, I use to be that hunter for a very long time.

I believe that we all hunt for different reasons and have very different goals for our hunt. I have been lucky and have taken a P&Y buck each of the last three seasons and four out of the last five seasons. However, that is not my main goal when I go hunting. My main goal is to enjoy myself by relaxing and not worring about the every day stresses. My second goal each year is to take at least four deer. This is how many deer I know my family needs to have deer in the freezer until the next season opens (we don't buy beef). My third goal is to take a nice buck.

I was watching Mossy Oak's Obession Revealed tonight and Cuz said something at the end of the show that made me think about this thread again. He was talking about different hunting techinques and how one was not better than the other. He said something along this line; as long as it is legal and as long as it results in a big smile at the end, then he is all for it. I think this pretty much sums up how I feel about this topic, as long as at the end of the hunt there is a smile and the hunter enjoyed the hunt, then it was done just how it was suppose to be done.

I think the hunting community spends way too much time fighting with ourselfs. We get wrapped up fighting about should crossbows be allowed, should baiting be allowed, is bowhunting better/harder than rifle hunting or if all should have to or want to pass on small bucks. Hell, why does PETA have to do anything, we do enough damage to ourselfs.

I hope everyone enjoyed their season so far this year, I hope there were a bunch of smiles in the field and memories made. I don't care if those smiles came from a doe, a 75" buck, a 175" buck, or a miss. Just as long as it was done legally and smile resulted at the end of it.

Best paragraph in the whole thread.

well around here If you see a deer shot him. TO many people on to small a piece of public land to start a management program. I want meat any meat don't care. I got a little 5 point gave to me that was one of the best deer I ever ate. For some of us passing does nothing and is not a real option

kickin buck and mez: well stated. I have read this entire thread as it went from good to ugly quick and now some good responsible points made by these two. I guess this thread illustrates my gripe with QDM - it is dividing hunters too much. Improving habitat and the herd- outstanding, I'm all for it. Unfortunately the true draw is the allure of the almighty antler as witnessed time and again by those who need to tell their "stats and scores" I have been on both sides of this issue myself, there are so many different potential scenarios with a local deer herd, you just can't get everyone to shoot lots of does and let young bucks walk all the time.

My scenario- I don't own enough land. I hunt on 5 acres. I let 1.5 yr bucks walk, just for personal goals, etc. (For about 7 years) I am lucky enough to have several neighbors that do the same. We have some nice bucks around. Last two years the does have really diminished. Last year I would see 4-10 bucks a day during the rut. All 1.5-2.5 yr old. Are their bigger around-yep, but they didn't come by me. Normally I would shoot a doe because we eat venison. Well I finally shot a 2.5 yr old buck right before the rifle season opener. I hunt to get venison and I try to get a nice buck to improve on previous seasons. If I can shoot a doe, then I will- but our herd has gone the other way from all the extra doe seasons and QDM efforts in our area.

Lot of Blah Blah Blah Blah here........
Even as a pretty serious hunter - its tough to stay focused reading this thread.

Generally - I feel if one hunts within the laws of our state - we all deserve the same respect as hunters.

Personally - I like the idea of QDM but its still a ways off for "my hill".

FH

Reading back through the thread. This is definitely the most insightful statement I've seen.