mineral blocks and salt
05-30-2003 | 07:03 AM
#21
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From:
RE: mineral blocks and salt
This plainly states that they do have a role. This is why we produce the Mineral Gravy, it is not a magic bullet. If you put all of the resources together then I will guarantee that you will see a difference in the body weight, antler growth and overall herd development. Below in not a quote from me but from one of the sources you posted on. We do not claim that you just throw minerals out and then sit there and you will kill the next world record, but from what we have found it will help to increase the areas liste above.
By the way we tell everyone that we are in no way like Deer Cocaine. They advertise as a draw to hunt over. That was and still is not our goal. It is to give the minerals that they need when they need it. If you wait until October to put stuff out you are just wasting your time. The time that they need this is early spring and summer. So if someone is looking for something to hunt over then we try to tell them they probably want something else, if they want to try to help the deer herd then the Mineral Gravy is designed for that.
Clearly minerals are important in antler development. Because of the large quantities of minerals required for antler growth, whitetails actually deposit calcium and phosphorous in their skeletons prior to the onset of antler growth and then transfer these minerals during active growth (Stephenson and Brown 1984). However, these body sources of calcium and phosphorous provide only a portion of that needed for optimum antler growth. The remainder must come directly from their diet while their antlers are actively growing. Therefore, supplementation of these minerals prior to and during antler growth may be beneficial. While deer have the ability to “stockpile” calcium and phosphorous, this is not true for the majority of other minerals found in antlers. As in humans, many “trace minerals” such as barium, aluminum, zinc, and strontium are toxic in large quantities and must be excreted from the deer’s body. As a result, these minerals must be consumed in very small quantities (parts per million) on a regular basis. Despite their presence in antlers, the role of trace minerals in antler growth is largely unknown.
By the way we tell everyone that we are in no way like Deer Cocaine. They advertise as a draw to hunt over. That was and still is not our goal. It is to give the minerals that they need when they need it. If you wait until October to put stuff out you are just wasting your time. The time that they need this is early spring and summer. So if someone is looking for something to hunt over then we try to tell them they probably want something else, if they want to try to help the deer herd then the Mineral Gravy is designed for that.
05-30-2003 | 05:43 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 0
From: York, PA.
RE: mineral blocks and salt
Mad_ hunter, It says
THERE IS NO SCIENTIFIC DATA EVER WRITTEN TO SUPPORT THAT STATMENT, NOR HAS ANY STUDY BEEN CONDUCTED THAT SHOWED ANY INCREASE IN ANTLER SIZE.
If you read down farther you will see the results of actual studies down on this subject
Therefore, supplementation of these minerals prior to and during antler growth MAY BE ( THE AUTHOR' S OPINION) beneficial
If you read down farther you will see the results of actual studies down on this subject
A classic study on the mineral needs of deer was conducted at Penn State University in the 1950s (French et al. 1956). In this study, researchers did detect a difference in yearling buck antler development between supplemented and unsupplemented groups. However, these herds were fed a nutritionally deficient diet below what most whitetails would have access to in the wild.Furthermore, when the same deer were examined the following year as 2.5–year–olds, no differences were detected between the two groups.
In a similar study conducted at Auburn University (Causey 1993), researchers tried to detect differences in body and antler size between an unsupplemented and supplemented group. The difference in this study and the Penn State study was that both herds were fed a nutritionally complete diet. In addition, one group was provided a commercial mineral supplement. Over a 4–year period the researchers were unable to detect any differences between the two deer herds.
A Louisiana study (Schultz and Johnson 1991) compared supplemented and unsupplemented wild herds in similar habitats. Although problems always arise when studying wild populations, they were unable to show any differences in body size or antler development using mineral supplementation.
In a similar study conducted at Auburn University (Causey 1993), researchers tried to detect differences in body and antler size between an unsupplemented and supplemented group. The difference in this study and the Penn State study was that both herds were fed a nutritionally complete diet. In addition, one group was provided a commercial mineral supplement. Over a 4–year period the researchers were unable to detect any differences between the two deer herds.
A Louisiana study (Schultz and Johnson 1991) compared supplemented and unsupplemented wild herds in similar habitats. Although problems always arise when studying wild populations, they were unable to show any differences in body size or antler development using mineral supplementation.
06-02-2003 | 05:55 AM
#23
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From:
RE: mineral blocks and salt
Think what you want, I know first hand what it can do. I am not a scientist, rocket or other wise, but since we and others we know have been putting out the best food plots we could and adding mineral suppliments along with it we have seen an increase. If you don' t want to believe it that is fine, we just think you are only hurting yourself.
06-02-2003 | 08:05 AM
#24
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,862
Likes: 0
From: Illinois
RE: mineral blocks and salt
I personally do not use mineral pits for the purpose of hopefully affecting antler growth. I doubt that introduced minerals are a rapid panacea. However, just like the person who follows a nutritious diet but also takes daily vitamins; it cannot hurt, and may help, down the road.
A friend of mine whom has a degree in animal sciences owns one of the areas I hunt. He raises Sika and Red deer. He feeds the deer minerals mainly for health and body growth. I will take a 300 lb. buck with 4-points any day.
As for his deer management regarding the Whitetails in his area, the only management he applies is a rule to leave a certain amount of superior bucks in the population. That is why he enforces a " slot" rule on his property.
He firmly believes, and I totally agree, that the pursuit of big antlers craze is going to eventually have a devastating affect on the health and genetics of deer populations that they (wild deer) may never totally recover from.
He also is concerned that much of the natural forage that deer vitally need is rapidly disappearing, and that soybeans, corn, and clover just cannot provide all that wild deer need in their diet. With that in mind, it just might come to having to provide many of the minerals by forage plots and mineral pits.
A friend of mine whom has a degree in animal sciences owns one of the areas I hunt. He raises Sika and Red deer. He feeds the deer minerals mainly for health and body growth. I will take a 300 lb. buck with 4-points any day.
As for his deer management regarding the Whitetails in his area, the only management he applies is a rule to leave a certain amount of superior bucks in the population. That is why he enforces a " slot" rule on his property.
He firmly believes, and I totally agree, that the pursuit of big antlers craze is going to eventually have a devastating affect on the health and genetics of deer populations that they (wild deer) may never totally recover from.
He also is concerned that much of the natural forage that deer vitally need is rapidly disappearing, and that soybeans, corn, and clover just cannot provide all that wild deer need in their diet. With that in mind, it just might come to having to provide many of the minerals by forage plots and mineral pits.
06-02-2003 | 01:02 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 0
From: York, PA.
RE: mineral blocks and salt
Mad-Hunter said"
Nice try to Spin, but we are not talking about food Plots, I have Have No doubt that your seeing an increase due to your Food Plot' s, and your probably shooting as many doe as possible (which is great) But Mineral Supplements such as your Mineral Gravy do not increase Antler size!! Please provide one link or source, study, or sceintific paper that backs up your claim!! Here is a link to an Outdoor Life Article that Implies that claiming YOUR product creates Bigger Antlers is a sales Ploy. Pike,
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/popup2/aolPopupAd.html?1
but since we and others we know have been putting out THE BEST FOOD PLOTS we could and adding mineral suppliments along with it we have seen an increase.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/popup2/aolPopupAd.html?1
06-02-2003 | 07:21 PM
#26
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From:
RE: mineral blocks and salt
I think that you have me figured wrong. I am not trying to sell you on Mineral Gravy. This is not my full time job, we just put it out because we had been asked how and where to purchase it so we put it out. Now that that is clear let me explain where I am comming from. Like was stated in another post up above, we have found that if you provide good food plots, minerals, don' t kill the small bucks and kill some does then all of this together will help you to see the potential of the herd. If you leave one of these out then I don' t think you will see the full potential of the herd. Some places that have tremendous crops (because of minerals that are already in the ground) that draw the minerals from the ground and then can be found in the crop itself would probably not do as much good for them because they are getting all that they can use in the crops they eat. Not everyone is blessed to live in such a place, so we feel they need to supplement the mineral part as well as put out the best food plots available. Nothing is a quick fix it takes time for all of these things to work.
So once again if you are looking for a quick fix then you are barking up the wrong tree. Take a look at where alot of the scientific stuff is done, in places where the soil is full of rich minerals. Of course they are getting everything through the food they eat and adding minerals probably does not give them any more, but not everyone is blessed to be in these areas. So once again this is not a sales pitch just our observation. If you still disagree that is fine no hard feelings we will just agree to disagree.
So once again if you are looking for a quick fix then you are barking up the wrong tree. Take a look at where alot of the scientific stuff is done, in places where the soil is full of rich minerals. Of course they are getting everything through the food they eat and adding minerals probably does not give them any more, but not everyone is blessed to be in these areas. So once again this is not a sales pitch just our observation. If you still disagree that is fine no hard feelings we will just agree to disagree.
06-02-2003 | 07:26 PM
#27
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
From: Cumming georgia
RE: mineral blocks and salt
If you really want to help with minerals and increase deer health you don' t have to put out suplaments or plant food plots you can just fertilize native forage. We fertilize honeysuckle or certian white oaks you kill two birds with one stone the deer get the minerals from the plants plus better forage, they can tell the differance they will come for the acorns under fertilized tree' s first
06-02-2003 | 07:36 PM
#28
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From:
RE: mineral blocks and salt
Buckshot47,
Good point, we have also found that the deer prefer the oaks that have been fertilized. One thing for people to realize is that they cannot wait until hunting season to decide to put stuff out.
Good point, we have also found that the deer prefer the oaks that have been fertilized. One thing for people to realize is that they cannot wait until hunting season to decide to put stuff out.
06-03-2003 | 12:34 PM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,313
Likes: 0
From: York, PA.
RE: mineral blocks and salt
Mad-hunter, No hard feeling' s on my end either, and I agree doing all the things you mentioned above will dramictly improve the health of your herd, (except Mineral supplements) the fact still remain' s that Mineral supplements do not increase antler size, The pre existing mineral content in the soil has nothing to do with it because a deer' s body cannot utilize the minerals in supplements for antler growth. Now you just stated that in Good soil mineral supplements will have no affect, but in your previous post you stated that you are seeing increased antler growth from your supplements, You Hunt In IL. Soil doesnt get much better than that. Pike
06-03-2003 | 01:08 PM
#30
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From:
RE: mineral blocks and salt
I hunt in IL, KY, OH, IN, but I live in TN. The soil does not get much more rocky or sandy. This is not farm land from around here. I am putting out a new trail camera and I will try to post some pics out as soon as I get them back in. Basically the soil stinks around here where I live. That is why I head out of state alot to do some hunting. Isn' t it good to disagree and still not get mad and hate each other. Wish other people could do the same!!!