RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Good point Cougar.

Plainly said: It's a whole lot easier to kill a deer with a crossbow than a "conventional" bow.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Well I don't really know how ODNR gets its info. On compound & Xbow #s. Last year thay asked but this year thay didn't.
And on the movement my compound is hung on a hanger by my side. Inwitch it is slipped of and brought to full draw. 18" to 32" at the most.
My Xbow either sets on my lap or on my treestand foot rest. Inwitch I have to raise it up in front of me witch is anywhere from 18" to 22" not counting the movement that I have grabing for it with the hand thats not holding it. If your moving more with your compound I dont know what your problem is Arthur. I see no point in large body movements. Unless you go to stand up with your compound or a Xbow. Large body movements are then need.
Looks like Taxas is alittle money hungry as is Ohio.Ohio see more money coming from bow hunters more and more each year. My be some day we might not need to GUN hunt. I like that more and more as I get older in my years as a bow hunter.
So be it Long bow, recurve bow, compound bow, or Xbow thay are bows inwitch thay all should fall under bow season.
Like Gun season should have guns to be used to the point of not to indanger the public.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

I still don`t understand WHY? Please, will one supporter of crossbows in the regular archery season please explain WHY you want to use a x-bow, if you are not physically handicapped? I will state to you before I see your explaination, if it does`nt include"because I am too lazy to become proficient with a bow" it had better be a hum-dinger of a story!
And, I think that x-bows are not illegal in a lot of states, they just are not included in the regular archery season. AS THEY SHOULD NOT BE, unless you have a physical disability that prevents you from drawing, and holding a conventional bow. To a person in good physical shape, a x-bow is an inferior weapon, it does not need to be drawn or held at full draw like a bow, though, offering an unfair advantage, that does not belong in archery season. A x-bow has inferior down range ke, as well as not being as accurate. That is, they are not as accurate if you take the time to practice with a quality bow. OK, I am now waiting for some type of responsible reply, not a hissy fit.<img src=icon_smile_approve.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Big Country - Simple answer - because its easier.

Hey, its IS the truth, right ? If I want to kill a big buck, I'll pay to hunt private land with a rifle, and I'll probably do it. If I want a CHALLENGE, I'll hunt with a longbow on public ground and that little 6 pointer will mean a heck of a lot more.

The equipment DOES make the hunt in many ways, which was argued earlier that it didn't, that getting close to game was the key.

Cougar, I explained that crossbows are truly archery equipment, however I do not think they should be legal in archery season unless handicapped. I stated the history because guys call them cross-guns and X-bows. they are not, they are crossbows, efficient, easily used weapons that have been around for ages.

Another goog topic would be how far compounds have to advance before they too are in the easy to use crossbow class ?

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Stealthy, I'll give you an opinion on that one... Slap on a Drawlock and you're there.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

AHHH drawloc, the &quot;convert your compound to a crossbow&quot; thingy ...

Yeah, but very few people use them compared to crossbows.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

How do you know very few people use them? Big Country: I would like to hear your reasoning for hunting with a conventional bow versus a crossbow.....

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Drawlocs aren't legal everywhere...just like crossbows. That's why lots of folks don't use them...just like crossbow.

There's a reason that only 4 states allow them (crossbows) in the entire archery season...Less skill is involved in killing with them.

They are used as a management tool in Ohio, and were a trade-off for the shortened gun season.

Now we have a one-week gun season, and a 3 1/2 month bow season.

Problem is that there are 25X the bowhunters there were 15 years ago, and 1/2 the huntable land.

Edited by - Pro-Line on 01/30/2002 20:30:51

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Buckforme, I am not sure that I understand your question?
&quot;How do you know very few people use them.&quot;
I never stated that very few people use them, if that is what you mean.
If you were refering to to my comments on the downrange ke, and accuracy of a crossbow, here are my answers to that.
1.KE- it is simple physics, you are dealing with an object(crossbow bolt) that has less weight(usually), is shorter in length(always), which makes it less stable in flight(always). Both of these factors can, and do diminish ke, both right out of the weapon, and downrange, as well.
As far as accuracy of a crossbow goes, while it is unarguably easier to get proficient with a crossbow, real, serious accuracy is not achievable with one, due to the short length, hence less stable flight of a crossbow bolt. If anyone refuses to agree with my stance on the accuracy issue, that is fine. Let me put it this way....go find the person that you know to be the BEST crossbow shooter you know, then contact me with a time and location where we can have a little accuracy contest. Lets say, 10-50yds. You may not use a benchrest to shoot from. Bring all the money you can afford to lose, I will furnish you with gas money for the ride home.
OK, why do I prefer to hunt with a conventional bow, instead of a crossbow. Well, when I started bowhunting, crossbows were never mentioned as a weapon for archery hunting. And compounds were not commercially available. I think they were invented by 1972, but not available yet.(not sure on that) So, I started with a recurve, progressed to a compound, and I am probably going to revert back to the recurve in the near future. I have shot crossbows, I have seen many crossbows shot, I know several people who use them for hunting. In my home state of PA, you can easily aquire a doctors permit for one. I am not sure what physical limitations you must meet to get one, I think you must have a runny nose for two consecutive days.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>OK, maybe a little more than that, but not much more. So, back to your question, I prefer to use a conventional bow because, regardless of the amount of fancy gadgets you put on a compound bow(not including a drawlock) they are still much more challenging, IMO, than a crossbow. I still stand behind my statement that a crossbow is not hand drawn, not hand held, so it does not belong in regular archery season.
I don`t mean to state, or imply that people who use a crossbow are any less of a hunter, or inferior in any way, to someone who uses conventional archery gear, you still need to get close, and go undetected. I Just don`t agree with using them in archery season.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Here are a few comments on the crossbow by AMO President and CEO Jay McAninch.

&quot;... I do not advocate crossbows in the archery season - never have and never will. I believe if a state is going to expand hunting to allow crossbows that it creates needless controversy to mix equipment in seasons.

&quot;... the AMO Board has been asked several times over the last few years about crossbows and their actions have been consistent.

&quot;The AMO Board in 1996 voted unanimously to take no position on crossbows. In 1999, the AMO Board voted down a proposal submitted by the American Crossbow Federation asking for AMO to support the promotion of crossbows. Again, in 1999, AMO voted down a proposal submitted by the American Crossbow Federation for funding from the Save Our Heritage Fund asking for money to promote crossbows. I don?t feel any more words are needed to combat the unfortunate misinformation being circulated.&quot;

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

ArthurP to follow up about what you stated about my reply is not even in the same ball park. It is so easy to see that a crossBOW is more of a bow that a (as you stated iron sighted handgun) No way JOSE. NO primer no gun powder no lead comming out the end. No fire ignition from a primer boy do I need to go on. So still nothing like a gun it a funny bow.

Brian

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Thanks for pointing that out, Super. Well done. I'd hate to think someone would read my post, go out and put a hot handload in their crossbow and blow their face off.

Nothing like a gun... except for a buttstock, forend, safety, 4X32 5-point reticle scope and trigger.

You know, I really don't think they would make 5-point reticle scopes for crossbows that aren't accurate past 25 yards. I also don't think they'd need to be 4X for only 25 yards.

I bet they are made for something more along the lines of the Barnett Quad 300 that the advertising copy says will shoot a 20&quot; 2219-series, 480 grain bolt at 300 fps. That's right at 96 ft lbs of energy from a 150 pound draw crossbow.

I don't know a whole lot of guys that go out of their way to draw a bow that will give that much speed and energy with a 480 grain arrow. Do you?

Now, Ohio says you can use a crossbow up to 175 pounds of draw weight. That means the manufacturers have got room to make them even faster and more powerful. I've heard there are a few custom rigs like that already out there. When we talk about making them legal, we're talking ALL models of crossbows, present and future, not just the 'classics' like buckforme's or the cheap junkers like mine. It includes the high end tactical crossbows too.

So, considering all the crossbows on the market, I really don't think my comparison of crossbows with iron sighted handguns is all that inappropriate, considering their respective effective ranges and firearm-type firing system.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Iron sighted handguns are accurate enough way out past any crossbow's capabilities. Try 150 yards ironsited. stock as you say like a riser of any bow just different looking. cope on a CrossBOW you can have them on a regular bow if you want it too. YOu do have me on the safety but not the trigger as most people use releases and they have triggers. For people who use a draw lock is like the same thing as a safety. YOu have me on the stock so you do have me on that but still no bang so its a bow that is funny looking.

brian

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

445 supermag - Not for the average Joe Hunter they are not. I've shot a few handguns, and have shot with a few people. At 40 yards, I could group better with my arrows (compound) than most guys group with their handguns. Thats a true for most people I think. Now, I had a Model 29 S&W 44 mag, scoped, 8 3/8 barrel that shot darn well, but not off handed, not iron sighted. Dirty Harry shots don't happen in the real world very often.

That was my point - its the weapon and not getting close that creates the divided hunting seasons. If it were simply about getting close (limited range weaponry), then crossbows should be legal, as would iron sighted handguns. But I think I proved that that is not the case, and that crossbows do offer an advantage because of their ease of use.

Big Country - You asked why anyone not handicapped would use one - you didn't get any responses to that really, did you ? Because NO ONE wants to admit they are going the easy route and using a crossbow, though it is mostly the truth.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Stealthy: I will answer that question, however i use both a compound and a crossbow and it all depends on what stand location i will hunt that day along with terrrain and yardage. I like the crossbow in heavy terrain, short distances where for me to have a shot is withing 10 to 12 yards, with open lanes, less dense terrain i use my compund. Now, i disagree with you about getting close to the game versus the weapon.....The acutal hunt is getting prepared, knowing your hunting area, the deer movements, the location of beds, food sources, wind, trails, etc...... Then getting in there in the morning / evening close enough and quite enough with out odor.....or being seen.......using your calls, scents,,,,for that moment of truth. Now i will agree that compounds are more accurate out past 20 yards then a crossbow......so in all your infinite wisdom how can you say that crossbows are easier....sure maybe easier to &quot;trigger&quot; but harder to actual hunt due to you HAVE To get real close to game due to accuracy.......Thats in my own humble experience only.

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

I am pleased with many of the responses to this Question. I especially like big country's. How many of you guys have practiced shooting your re-curve, long bow, or compound from the back seat of a car or truck at 2am. They will not wake your neighbors up either. I think x-bows are ok for those who are physically challenged .&lt; big period. <img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle> X-bows are a great tool for a poacher.

LIVE FREE OR DIE

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Nitro, somehow I missed your post until now. You commented something like not knowing how I could have problems with large body movements. Well....

I'm 6'6&quot; tall and weigh in around 330 pounds. I don't have any small body movements. :0)

I'm pretty sure you pick up that bow or crossbow when you see the deer coming in instead of waiting until it's right in front of you. So, it comes down to preparing to take the shot. Your crossbow is already drawn and ready to fire. The bow has to be drawn before it can shoot. And if you can show me how you can draw and shoot a bow with the same amount of movement as squeezing the trigger to shoot a predrawn, precocked crossbow...

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

buckforme - I can say that because you cannot go a year without shooting your compound without losing your edge. You can pick up a crossbow a year without shooting it and be deadly. We all know this, who are we trying to kid ?

I went years shooting a compound because simply, a recurve/longbow was tougher and I didn't want to put the time into it. Crossbow hunters are the same.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Well one thing Ohio laws state that you can use a crossbow that has a draw weight of on more than 200 lbs.
Also Ohio has an Archery Season. Not a just compound season, Long bow season,or Recurve season,nor just a crossbow season. Its called Archery meaning ALL BOWS.
Which are regulated by draw weight.
So if your Hunting Regulationsin your state has an Archery season this should include crossbows because its an archery tool as well. It dosn't mean that something has to be Hard or easy to be used. only if it indangers the public that it shouldn't be used. Like using a Rifle in Ohio to Deer hunt . This would follow under this line.
So a crossbow dosn't indanger the public as a bow in the Archery season so it should be used . Not because its easy to use or harder to hit something past 25 yards.
its an Arthery tool for an Archery Season.
But let people make there own choiceon how hard or how easy thay hunt. The more we can get as hunters Like the ladies and young kids,and the guys that work 6&7 days a week and can't get out like you and me and use a Compound bow and be good at it. Thats just not Fair to those people, and for me when I feel like using mine. For a different archery bow to use sometimes or I should say style of bow.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
The more we can get as hunters Like the ladies and young kids,and the guys that work 6&7 days a week and can't get out like you and me and use a Compound bow and be good at it. Thats just not Fair to those people, and for me when I feel like using mine. For a different archery bow to use sometimes or I should say style of bow.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Frankly, I am tired of the &quot;poor ladies and children who must be terribly malnourished and seriously misinformed if they think they can only hunt with a crossbow because a compound, recurve, or longbow is just too darn hard to pull back story line.&quot;

The crossbow manufacturers that went to the Game Commission meeting in PA pleading the need for crossbows used the same line. The game commission seemed seriously interested until a woman bowhunter stood up an offered a list of 45 different bows that are suitable for women and children. I wasn't really against crossbows until they said this.

So no excuses for the women and children, I am a woman, I can pull a bow set at 50lbs. just fine. I have a child too, a daughter in fact, age 11 she can pull her bow too, 25 lbs. worth. She will not hunt until she can pull at least 40 lbs.

As for the people who work six and seven days a week, if they have so little time that they can't shoot a few arrows into a target in the backyard every few days than I bet they don't have time to scout out their hunting areas, check there equipment for wear, or have time to practice shooting a couple of bolts to be sure of their shot.

Hunting is serious business that requires skill, knowledge, time and respect for the animal and the land. Regardless of your weapon, if you cannot devote the time required than you shouldn't be in the woods. I am not saying you have to spend as much time in the woods as I do, but I don't want the 7 day a week worker who never had time to practice that thought it would be cool to slam a deer with a crossbow bolt in a tree near me.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

tribalscream - nice post .....

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Nitro, I made my post from memory and didn't check the Ohio regs. 200 pounds instead of a mere 175? Thanks for clearing that up.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Tribal...You said a mouthful, and you said it right.

The women, infant, 7 day employees thing is wearing on my nerves also. All you need to kill a deer is 40 pounds pull...and most women can pull that back. As far as a kid goes...he can wait till he can pull a bow back to bowhunt. It's not like he's got to wait till he's 18 or anything.

It boils down to one thing...Some folks don't want to take the time to:

1. Learn to shoot some sort of longbow
2. Scout out an area
3. Practice prior to and DURING the season
4. Hang stands
5. ASK PERMISSION TO HUNT

Since Ohio has allowed crossbows, as I've stated, the # of hunters has gone up probably 25X. I realize the crossbow is not the only factor.

This has gotten people involved in bowhunting that were previously gunhunters or not deer hunters at all. Many of these folks don't understand bowhunting ethics and respect.

The more time/energy (NOT $$$$) you invest in something the more respect you have for it. If you don't have the time or energy to do it with respect, stick to golf/bowling.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Its funny, the only argument you come up with is &quot;its easier to kill a deer with a crossbow&quot; simply becasue its easier to sight in and shoot. My agument here is, YOU HAVE TO BE CLOSE ENOUGH to get that shot, which requiers, scouting, stand placement, time on stand.....etc....... It appears to be the &quot;ethcis&quot; behind allowing crossbows and the folks who will not take the time to prepare&quot; ethically&quot; because a crossbow is easier to sight in. It would introduce more people to bow hunting and as with anything the more numbers you have the more unethical people you have.......I have encountered alot of compunders who should not have a sling shot let alone a BOW. So your sterotyping of current crossbow hunters is unfair, as i use both a compound and a crossbow and i practice extensively with both.

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

buckforme &quot;Its funny, the only argument you come up with is &quot;its easier to kill a deer with a crossbow&quot; simply becasue its easier to sight in and shoot.&quot;

So you have no problem me using an iron sighted handgun with a 6 inch barrel during your archery season ? I mean, its easier to use than a crossbow, but the accuracy and distance isn't any greater, so you'd be cool with that, right ? No, you wouldn't be. Why ? Because its the WEAPON, and not the distance of the shot that matters. And a crossbow, because of its ease of use (like the draw-loc mechanism) takes it outside the realm of what is suppose to be a challenging sport. Challenging includes difficulty in preparing and making the shot after the challenge of getting into position.

Do you or do you not shoot a crossbow because its easy and allows you extra hunting days ?


&quot; My agument here is, YOU HAVE TO BE CLOSE ENOUGH to get that shot, which requiers, scouting, stand placement, time on stand.....etc....... It appears to be the &quot;ethcis&quot; behind allowing crossbows and the folks who will not take the time to prepare&quot; ethically&quot; because a crossbow is easier to sight in.&quot;

Again, yeah, thats basically it. Crossbows make it easy, and archery isn't suppose to be about easy. Its suppose to be about your skills as a hunter, including scouting, stand placement, time on the stand and the time you've put into getting proficient with your bow, which a crossbow doesn't require. What you are saying is that its getting close to the deer thats the challenge, and adding the challenge of handling and using a compound, recurve or longbow is just too much to add to the hunt, am I right ? I shot a compound because it was more difficult than a rifle. Had zero, nothing to do with getting closer to animals, my stands already did that as did my scouting (although archery has honed those skills). Going to a logbow was yet another way for me to challenge myself, for me to add another dimension to the Hunt. If I used a crossbow, any deer within 30 yards of my stand would die if a shot was presented. I couldn't say that about a compound (factoring in the drawing of the bow and all) and certainly can't about my longbow (the distance is too far)

Crossbows are easy to use, thats why people use them (with the exception of handicap persons).

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

&quot;It would introduce more people to bow hunting...&quot;

That comment comes up on each and every crossbow argument I've ever been involved with and still, NOBODY has ever given any data from any surveys or studies to support that statement.

So, if it all boils down to unsupported opinion, I will leave the discussion with mine.

The crossbow would NOT introduce people to bowhunting. It would introduce them to CROSSBOW hunting. And that is the entire reason the crossbow manufacturers want their products introduced into bow seasons. They are not out to promote, protect or preserve bowhunting. They are only interested in promoting their products. They are interested in making money off a product that could very well end bowhunting seasons in a lot of places if they are successful.

And they are more than willing to raise such a stink that they will get bowseasons incorporated into general weapons seasons. If they can't get into a special season, then they want to make sure nobody else has one either.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Where i live, using a crossbow versus a compund does not give me extra hunting days, its a combined 4 month season, and LIKE I HAVE SAID ON MANY POSTS: I USE BOTH A COMPOUND AND A CROSSBOW.....its all a matter of preference for me that day, and what terrain / stand location i am using that day. To answer your question about me using a crossbow becasue its easier is NO.....that is not why i use it in certain areas. Its a matter of terrain, and distance of my lanes that will designate what bow i use. (READ MY EARLIER POSTS!!) I see why you dislike the xbows so much, you claim to be able to kill any deer that presents a shot with a xbow, but woould not say that about a compound. My only suggestion to you....is if you have a shot on a deer and you cannot gurantee a high probability of a clean kill, THEN DONT TAKE THE SHOT.......go back an practice with your compound more until you feel as confident as you claim you are with your xbow. But in reality, i would strongly challenge you on that claim of 100% kill with a xbow on all presented shots. MHO only

The outdoors is yours, treat it with RESPECT!!!

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

ok guys, crossbow hunters have every right to hunt with their weapon of choice just like I have the right to hunt with a bow. I think most states allow them under different situations. my dad is handicaped & this is the only way he can enjoy the early bow season here in KY. he has a special permit for it, I would never attack his right to use it.

this is the way I see it, we all need to stick together & stop fighting between ourselves. if we continue to express hate to others who choose a weapon that is not to our liken then we will loose the battle with the antihunters. we need to stick together, end of topic as far as I am concerned!

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

Well I'm really sorry you feel that way. People should be able to use what Bow they what to. Like people have the right to use what shot gun to use in gun season. or Rifle in Rifle seasonor if the seasons are combined than so be it.
UNTIL IT GETS TO A POINT THAT ENDANGERS THE PUBLIC.

RE: Why are crossbows illegal?
 

I thought I would clear at up for you Arthur. Because you sounded like a person that shouldn't say anything WRONG.