Just curious....

Which carbons are you shooting ......that are heavier than your 2315's?

And.....

What kind of bow is a "stinger"? It's quite impressive it's shooting 314fps. @ 60#'s.

I have bowhunted for a long while. Can't say I ever had trouble with thunderheads or even old muzzy's. Hated that thunderheads blades fall out, but they were deadly sharp. I can't say I would ever hunt with anything that has so much contraversy as a rage. But also, I think folks are nuts for paying more than 5-6 dollars for a broadhead. I myself just don't get it. Other than advertising has a huge effect on some and not on others.

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There is absolutely no way your getting 316 out of a PSE Stinger. just because the IBO may say 316 does not mean it is shooting 316. plus the IBO on that bow at 70# and 30" draw with a 350 gr. arrow is 304-296. And if your shooting heavy arrows, definatly no way your getting that speed. maybe your getting 216 my guess is your getting right about 220 fps, depending on your DL which depending on your arrows your probably only getting about 43 ft/p of KE, but im definatly not an expert like some of the guys on here

sorry GMMAT it didnt qoute his part of the post is what i meant to be in there

I have no dog in this fight but I'd like to make a comment.

Think of all the Celebs that endorse this head. There they are with there reputation on the line. Their income depends on their success.

They shoot game on camera for the world to see. Despite whether they get extra attention from outfitters or free hunts, it doesn't make a difference when it comes down to how that broadhead performs (on camera)

You got a guy like Chuck Adams that has credentials that far surpass anyone on this forum. He has always put down mechanicals from day one. He's wrote many articles advising against mechanicals. Yet, he now endorses the Rage.

Some might say he got a lot of money to say that, but I doubt it. If he was that money hungry, someone would have had him endorsing their product a long time ago. Besides, his reputation is on the line. I believe he has an untarnished reputation thus far.

I don't use Rage BH, I actually use Slick Tricks currently, but I have used other mechanicals in the past. Even then, the heads I was using got a lot of similar comments, yet they performed great for me.

Just my .02

You sound like the kind of guy that would go on a hunting trip and when he gets ther, just pull the bow out and go hunting without shooting the bow.

You don't check your BH's at least once in awhile to make sure everything is good? :confused0024:....and you're worried about taking a chance with the Rage.

Never used a rage, never had a reason to stop using Muzzy's. I hear both sides of the argument and I must say it seems like preference to me. I do agree with a lot of comments on here though. No matter what you should always check your broadheads, I check mine everytime i knock an arrow to make sure there tight and i use Muzzy MX-3s as i stated. Also, i think you need a fair amount of Kinetic Energy to be able to shoot mechanicals well. Also, i have found my fair share of lost or wounded deer with both types of heads, and most shoots look like shooter error either way you put it. However, i have to say a fixed blade broadhead i think will be a little more forgivin. As long as you check the head there is not chance of change of flight and even with a loose broadhead the flight isnt altered that much, as it would be with a mechanical. Another thing is i have had plenty of arrows hit shoulder and with a bow with the right amount of KE the fixed blade will get through a whitetails first shoulder and get inside enough, i have seen mechanicals fail at this (not saying i have seen a rage yet though) Also, in my thoughts pass through with 2 holes is better then one big hole, normal clouting and everthing along with tissue change and depending where you hit other organs and muscles can block blood flow, so no matter what Bh i think everyone should shoot to have pass through. And the way i hunt i have no moving parts on my bow, my sight doesnt move, my rest doesnt move ( I use a WB, switched back because of experience with mechanical issues on drop aways and arrows falling off the rest on others) Nothing moves, also i like to know that the same set i use for whitetails, mulies and blacktails i can take to the high country to use on elks with out changing a single thing, i just wouldnt trust and a mechanical on an elk, but the seem to be fairly effective on whitetails when shot properly. Another thing, lets be honest about all these TV celebrities they will shoot what ever pays the bills. I have seen them all switch bow companies and equipment time and time again, with the exception of a few, most seem to have a price. Even Chuck Adams. Someone has to pay for those trips.

Annika:

As you know, I've been one of the loudest proponents of the rage head since I started using it two years ago. In the hands of the right archer/hunter.....they are THE most devastating head on the market (IMO).

Where I have a disconnect with the company is......their seeming lack of interest in educating potential end users on the absolute NECESSITY of shooting them from a properly tuned setup. "Flies just like field points" has always been a selling point for most BH's.....and it's especially true with mechanicals.

If Rage would do a PSA on the importance of proper tuning (bow AND arrow marriage), I think they'd gain a LOT of respect in the marketplace.

I'm one of the people I speak of. I "thought" my bow was in tune. In fact, it was, while I was shooting the rage head. That meant NOTHING.....if the arrow wasn't a proper match. It wasn't, and my penetration suffered. Was it the head's fault? No. It was SOLELY mine.

I realize the market share would be reduced if the real facts about who should and shouldn't be shooting these heads was revealed. Thin line. BUT....if the company took more of a pro-active role in educating end users......many would see the co. in a better light (I know I would). Maybe it's not their responsibility. But, someone needs to do it.

With the introduction of the new 1.5" head....the marketing (40KE) plan disturbs me. 1st off....I hold little confidence in the avg. archer/hunter knowing his KE. Educate them! A short PSA from the company (instead of a Lee and Tiffany spot) would go a long way (IMO). A training program for your retailers would, also. Give these guys selling them some heads for their troubles.

I lend little credence to the "faulty" claims. Been there - done that. Laid several down with the heads from a "not so perfect" setup. I never had one open in flight. I never had one fail to open. I never had one NOT produce a devastating entrance. Proper training and education would assure more exit wounds.

I place a great deal of importance on being able to discern the magnitude of the hit.....on being able to examine the arrow at the point of impact. I can't do that if my arrow is still in the deer.

Just my FOUR cents....lol.

:groupwave:

I'll add....

If the Rage co. would invite their customers to bring in their bow/arrows when they come to purchase thier heads (from bow shops)......they could make it attractive (what's a few bucks/heads?) to the shop owners to offer some advice on setups. The shop owners would win.....because they'd certainly get additional sales from their investment, when guys needed their setups tweaked. They'd also sell more arrows, if the marriage between bow/arrow wasn't correct. My gut feeling is they'd sell more accessories, also (sights; strings; cables; rests; etc..., etc..., etc...).

i think instead of changing the rage sales strategy someone should explain to this kid there is no way he is shooting 314 out of his PSE stinger and its probably more like 214. especially if his arrows are actually heavier than those eastons he said he used to shoot, if so then they are way too heavy and overspined for his bow. someone that can really explain to him should before he goes and wounds deer and comes back and says i guess i should have listened to you guys

X2! 2313's with 100gr. tips probably weigh more than 450gr. My 30"70# X6 wouldnt even shoot them 314 and that bow is wicked fast. Im getting 90#'s of KE with that setup (330fps 375gr. arrow)

Derek

:lmao: Sorry, i can't take it anymore!!! This one takes the cake!!!!

Kid,
Do yourself a favor and get on Pinwheel and get a FREE Trial version of OnTarget2, and mock some numbers and learn a little. If that NOVA was set at 53#, it was lucky to hit 180fps especially with a 2315!!!!

I have made a lot of money selling Rage broadheads. And even more money off the 75% or so of those same people who have come back in this year telling me how bad those things suck. No passthroughs.... opening up ON THE DRAW... opening in flight.... too many issues. The things are absolutely awesome when you can get them to the target intact.... but for your average, excitable, somewhat clumsy bowhunter.... it is far too much to fool with to have to set blades and set bands and all that. I have to explain fractions and division to people on a daily basis (I taught a man today that if 100 vanes cost $20.... then they are 20 cents a piece. He had to ask me this four times.... when he found some tiger stripped ones for $30.... I thought his head was going to explode). I digress.

Like anything else, you'll have people who swear by it and swear at it. I could care less myself.. I love the heads I shoot. I have just been amazed by the massive pilgramage of people to them, and the even faster exodus of the majority of those pilgrams from them.

Now lets not get ambigious about this...

Haha I was LOL on this one!!

I really dont know what to think about these heads... i bought a package with a gift card not knowing what else to spend it on being i have everything... and They fly amazing BUT!!!! the blades cant be extremely strong because i shoot a Mathews set at 70 lbs. with easton FMJ 340... and the blades broke... they snapped right off!!! I never have ever had that problem with my muzzy 115. gr. fixed 4 blade. So with that said im not to sure i would use on big game Muzzy is the way for me!!! Rage... Small game... :rock:

I didnt recognize you at first b/c of your avatar swamp! IT is HILARIOUS btw:lolabove:

What your talking about sounds like a joke I always ask people...
"If eggs were 12 cents a dozen; how many eggs could you get with 1 dollar?" Gets em' every time:confused:

Anyways... Hijacking again i am:s5:

Woops my bad that was supposed to be 304FPS...i have fat fingers lol....

And you've shot those arrows through a chronongraph? Or are ya just kinda "guessing" that they are going 304fps? Kinda hoping that they're going that fast!

Ok Tony, let me let you in on a little "SECRET!!!" That Stinger is rated for 296 - 304 fps. NONE of the bow companies actually ever meets their "rated" speed, Hoyt is alot of times close, but they still fall a little short, because we all put peeps and nock-sets or loops on our strings, and then the speed drops.

That rating is for a 30"draw and an arrow weighing exactly 350grs. shot out of a bow at 70#, so if you're not a 30" draw(or longer), it would be IMPOSSIBLE to get that 304fps(which that bow is not really going to shoot anyhow). Now you can tell your friends in 8th grade at Milwaukee Middle school your bow shoots 304fps, and they are all going to be impressed, but if you come here and spew that, the MEN here are going to laugh at you, mock you, or educate you, or maybe all 3. If you learn nothing from this drawn out thread, learn at LEAST this much.....BOWS don't really shoot what they are "RATED" for. Now would be a good time to step away from the keyboard, and just use the mouse so you can click and read, and get a touch more educated. You can be one of those people Swampcollie refers to or you can be someone that spent a bunch of time on a website and actually learned something that improved the archer and hunter that you are.

shoot it through a chrono i bet your only getting 210 at the most. probably more like 190.

Real mature for a "man" like yourself to talk to a young bowhunter like this. Maybe you should step away from the keyboard because comments like this to a 8th grader? makes you sound like you might be a 7th grader

annika, would ya rather just have every body shake our heads in a agreement with him, even though time and time again people pointed out that what he was saying couldn't in any way shape or form be true. Would you rather he go through life fibbing at every turn, while trying to "fit in". Or is it better to give him a stern piece of advise in hopes that he learns that pullin' the wool over his buddys eyes can be done from time to time, but in the real world, it ain't gonna get him any where. It is better to speak the truth, only when you know the truth, then it is to beleive you know the truth and speak the un-truth.
I think OHbowhnter's advice was well spoken.

The problem with this is that most people think they know everything. They really don't want real advice. They simply want you to agree with them and when you don't their egos get hurt. Far too many of them aren't smart enough to know how to adjust the draw weight on their bows but will fight you tooth and nail and tell you that their bow is in tune because they brought it to the shop and the pro tuned it for them.



And for proof of what I just typed I introduce to you SwampCollie.
I go through the same thing day in and day out. With not only archery customers but gun customers as well.

Remember something... "everybody has a price" chuck adams just happens to be able to name his...

Telling a kid that he is going to be laughed at and mocked is good advice? Come on, you can't be serious.

NO WHERE is it ok to laugh at and mock a kid. I Can really see the maturity level with comments like this.

I think you both need to go back to grade school and learn a few things. NEVER laughing at or mocking other kids is right at the top of the list of things I'm teaching my young daughters at home.

Old enough to hunt and kill an animal is old enough to be able to handle everything that has been said in this thread.

Who is this "kid" you guys speak of?
Tony is a grown, married man! :lolabove:

After reading through eleven pages of this thread, and yes I read every post, I've come to a few observations and have at least one question.

1) I think some, not all by any means, hunters who use or want to use Rages are more attracted to these blades because of the "look at this hole" factor.
2) Other users or future users seem to be attracted by the possibility of a bigger blood trail to track and thus better chance for finding their game.
3) This argument seems to be getting no where whatsoever.

The question I have is this....Why do those of you who don't use, and don't want use, Rages fight so hard to convince those who do want to use them not to? There's really only one right answer here, and I'm wondering how many know it.

While I'm observing....GMMATT, you continuously spew a battery of numbers and information that is almost overwhelming. While I'm sure that there are many here that "know their sh*t" you seem to be the first and foremost in offering up proof. If only I lived near you, I'd love to have the opportunity to spend an afternoon just target shooting. Without a doubt, I'd walk away with not only knowledge and information but also probably a vast improvement in my shooting skills.

Holy crap, I think I am just gonna pick up a pack of Slick Tricks this year after taking in all this madness.

So laughing at and mocking a kid is allright with you?

Yeah! you would be a heck of a role model for young kids to follow.:nonono2:

Spew? Feel free to offer up your own opinions....but judge mine on their merits, solely. If I'e given false information in this (or any other) thread that you have issues with.....let them be known.

I (as this thread signifies) base a lot of what I know on past ERRORS.

Isnt this the argument for almost all bh's??? You want a big hole, with a good blood trail... Some people have had absolutely devastating results with the rage, good and bad, and the good is VERY attractive if you can cover your eyes to the possibility of bad... All bh's are like this.

GMMATTS info in this thread is pretty darn good and experienced if you ask me. Theres plenty of threads where i dont agree with him, but for the most part on this one he is right on! He has killed 10+ deer with the rage heads. The man knows them as good or better than most on here just by the fact that hes hit alot of critters with them:rock:

I believe his posts in this thread give his word even more merit b/c he is for the most part, not praising them. He killed quite a few deer with them, and loved them last year and the past i suppose, but now his feelings have changed. He isnt just a biased rage hater b/c in the past he was a big advocate for them:rant:

And annika... Wis bow hunter ISNT A KID!!!

Derek

ive' killed 5 with rages and they are also im trying the blood runers this year they sound good

I'm not so sure he was knocking you down Jeff. Maybe praising you Instead.

It's kinda funny, Annika never did answer Jeff's questions on why Rage doesn't do what he thinks they should do (education wise).

You may be right, Steve. I just don't typically associate "spew" with good info.....lol.

I don't blame this head for any of my woes in shooting it (and I had them, certainly). I only wish they'd do a little more to educate the avg end user. I think they've been negligent in that regard.

If someone can learn from my MISTAKES, I hope they only take my info. at face value.

When did he ask me this question? and what am I suppose to do about the question?