What is your beef with Rage? You are doing the EXACT same bashing on AT. Do you work for a competitive company?

By the way, they get the blades from the exact same place they did the Snyper. But then again, you know everything.

GMMAT you shoot the rage heads out of a wood bow? or are you a closet compound shooter.

Shoot is present. I said I SHOT it.

"Closet comound shooter"? LOL.....(I lost the training wheels):biggrin:

It's called promoting or advertising your product. Snyper didn't do that, Rage does.

By the way, it's called common sense not intellectural curiosity.

Why don't you shoooooot them know? Find something better and more reliable

Why don't I shoot them now?

Because I'm producing WAYYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too little KE to shoot them (as are most people, in my opinion).

[quote=GMMAT;3397961]Why don't I shoot them now?

Because I'm producing WAYYYYYYYyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too little KE to shoot them (as are most people, in my opinion).[/qu

I agree.

Awww, come on guys "it's like throwing and axe through and animal." Concerns about kinetic energy are for wussy men with small diameter heads. LOL!!

On a serious note you are of course right. A 2 inch diameter head of any kind takes some serious KE to consisitently push through deer. Something that sadly far too few people seem to care or educate themselves about.

what would the optimal KE be for Rage heads?

from the calculators i've used my bow should be producing around 73-76 KE. is this too little?

No.

*but*

If your bow isn't optimally tuned.....you're not "really" producing those numbers.

if by properly tuned you mean "paper tuned", then the answer is yes.

No that's plenty KE if your bow is actually producing that much. Are you basing your arrow speed for the KE calculation on numbers obtained by actually shooting through a chronograph?

that was using Chrono #'s. i am shooting a 30" Beman Realtree MFX 340 at 270 f.p.s. i was figuring the arrow at 340 grains not including the knock, insert and blazer vanes. then i'm adding a 100 grain tip which brings me up to 440 grains. finally i was just adding a few grains for the vanes, insert and knock.

No. Not "just" paper tuned.

Proper tuning involves the marriage of a properly spined; weighted; length; tip-weight; Broadhead equipped arrow with a correct DW; center-shot bow (for the comound shooter).

I have very little confidence (based on what I read in bowhunting forums) in people going afield with tuned setups. Call me a skeptic.

Good hunting with them! You've been at it for some time, Rage is in your debt for using them. They aren't making you look good, your making them look good.

For forty bucks for three they'd better be on here thanking you for using them instead of the other way round.

Still kind of amazes me that we thank companies for going where we put them.

Good hunting this year!

I bought a pack of 2 blade rage heads last year. I used the practice head along side my field points and had great results. When hunting season neared I screwed on the heads I would be hunting with to give em a trial run before heading out. 2 out of 3 opened on flight the first round. I inspected carefully then gave em another round with the same results. I couldn't trust em after that and will not use them hunting. I can't speak for others results, but after trying them I wouldn't recommend anyone waste money on these heads.

Me personally... There is enough things that can go wrong when bow hunting WILD whitetail deer... I don't need to worry about my broadhead...

Any broadhead that you have to double check before you shoot it... Is a liability to the mission... I'll pass on the rage and any mechanical for that matter:wink:

Give me a great fixed blade broadhead any day...

Can you say Muzzy???:happy0001:

For those who have shot a rage, how many deer have you not recoverd? I am 1 for 1 with deer and 2 for 2 with turkeys.

The stats will show it's not about the bh as much is it is shot placement and bow setup.

With Snypers I'm 10 for 11, with the 11th living and 2 for 2 on gobblers. :poke::s3: Oh, and 1 for 1 on coyotes. :guiness:

I haven't had the chance as they fly so stupid thru the air when they open in flight. I haven't come within feet of one.:arms:

The sad thing is Jeff, many don't even know they aren't tuned. You're a relative new-comer to archery, and you probably have never used one, but the OLD sights used to have pins arranged not only for elevation, but also for windage for each individual pin. Many of our bows in the early 90's were set up and then RE-SIGHTED to shoot BH's because FP's and BH's weren't even CLOSE. Us old fingershooters just never had the accuracy that we find today using mechanical releases and drop-away arrow rests, but that is certainly not a BAD thing, as I believe the game is more humanely harvested nowadays vs. 25yrs ago. The internet is a remarkable thing in that now rather than loading a bow up, going down to a shop, and having a couple guys look at your bow, and form, and critique you, whether they new anything or not, NOW, a guy can take a picture, or a video, post it online and actually find 4-5 guys who DO KNOW SOMETHING, get decent feedback, and go back to the drawing board correcting anything that appears to need corrected.

I've learned more about archery and bow-tuning, etc in the last 5 yrs. than I did in the previous 13-14yrs, by a LONG SHOT!!! At the same time, MANY others have learned a great amount, and shared a great amount of knowledge, and in the overall realm, archery hunters are probably far more well-prepared to take to the woods today than they were 5 or 10 yrs ago, because we're so much better educated.

And while you have little confidence in the tune of many people's bows (not that I disagree with you) do you feel a slightly out of tune compound is any less capable than your Trad-Bow at delivering a killing shot???

ANNIKA, I always check my equipment before I go hunting. I always check to make sure the broadheads are screwed in tight. I check my bow to make sure my strings are not frayed. Etc... Etc...

The point is that I do not have to check my slick tricks every time I pull them out of the quiver to make sure the blades are still being held in place by the steel ferrule and steel ring at the base. It is impossible for them to come apart unless they have been removed from the arrow... Period. Once I put them together and screw them onto my arrows I know they are secure and are ready to be shot unless the entire broadhead has come loose from the arrow.

Not so with the rage. One little bump and the blades come unseated from the rubber o-ring that holds them in place.

Absolutely not! It's head and shoulders MORE capable.

My concern is people shooting heads like the rage for all the wrong reasons. I hear it so many times....."I can't get fixed heads to fly....so I'll just shoot mechanicals". That is double trouble! Not only are they obviously shooting an untuned bow/arrow combo.....they're now going to compound the problem by shooting a large mechanical broadhead that requires a tremendous amount of energy.

That's what concerns me. I agree with everything you posted.....and I enjoyed the history lesson.

No were not the same people..

It seems to me that too many folks on here are forgetting a big factor. CHECK YOUR EQUIPMENT BEFORE EACH USE. If youre not checking your equipment before you head to the woods, then dont go. You owe it to the animal. I dont care if youre usng G5 fixed heads or Rage Heads, you need to inspect your equipment before you head out. If something isnt working. FIX IT, or REPLACE IT. If I find that one or two Rage heads are having issues, Ill throw them in my box and replace them with something else. Im not saying the rage wont give me problems, but ive seen first hand what they are capable of doing, twice in the same nite. If I find they dont work for me, then I wont use them. So far my chances are looking better than some, since I check everything over not once but twice, before heading out to the field. Theres no room for ignorance in our sport. I dont care if youre shooting a crossbow, recurve, compound, etc.

Truth be known, I was one of those guys who didn't have a clue how the hell to tune these newer styled bows, and I shot Mechanicals for a while because of it. Once I figured it out, I stayed with mechanicals a couple more years because of the HUGE devastating holes they left. The more I messed around with different FBH, the more I found that I could "tinker" just a little more and get even better flight, better form and follow through certainly helped as well, especially when shooting the FBH. The last few years, I've felt just as confident with a FBH on the fore-end of an arrow as I have with a FP, and I think that's one BIG factor that makes guys lean towards the Mechanicals is confidence in the shot. I have 3 different mechanicals in my archery box that won't fly as WELL as my ST's. I think most of it is mild inconsistencies in the ferules, the long ferules balancing different, etc, but a WASP Jak-Hammer don't hit as consistent as a ST does at 40yds, nor does a Spitfire or NAP Shockwave. And I've had the Shockwave, even with the band in the right place open up during flight, one of the reasons I retired those heads after a couple kills.

I think the other thing about having your bow well-tuned and BH tuned is that you continue to develop confidence in the Fixed BH's because you can shoot them regularly and see they continue to fly well. Most mechanical aren't going to tolerate hundreds (and I really and truly mean HUNDREDS) of trips into foam before something is not working right, several of my ST's have made HUNDREDS of trips, and are still perfectly functional with a little sharpening. No replacing the O-ring or anything required.

You do make some valid points, and my mind still hasnt changed :rock:

3for3 with the 3 blades on deer!

Im gonna shoot the 2 though this year cuz i should have adequate KE:s2:. Last year I was in the 65-70 range and didnt feel comfortable enough with the large 2 blade head.

Perfect post. I couldnt agree more with you! Hell... Ive learned more in the last year or so than i have in my 9 years of bowhunting. Maybe not nearly as many as some of you, but i feel that the resources ive found have developed me to a far more technical/troubleshooting archer. Ive learned more from TFOX (in person and online) about tuning than i have from anyone ever, and if it werent from this site, i would never even have known that we live less than 20miles apart from eachother:guiness:

I, regardless of bh Ive ever shot, wuold rather have an accurate head than anything. Last year with the rage 3 blades, I was one of the ones that used that to compensate for my lack of tuning knowledge. My biggest problem was lack of knowledge of arrow tuning/spine. I did walk back etc, and new about cam timing yada yada... But flying a fbh takes more than a bow with set center shot...

I shot my grizz tricks and mags the other day at 40 yds and my groups were right in with my fp's. Something i never had happen in all the years shooting fbh's.

Now i feel just as confident shooting the tricks as i did the rages the past year b/c they fly excellently, which is why im setting one bow up for the st's and the other up for rages..

Derek

Derek:

That was an excellent post.

It takes 2 seconds to check the Rage likes it takes 2 seconds to check your ST.

Not my job to change your mind, just to throw some info out there and give you some ideas to chew on. I wish you the best of luck with whatever is on the fore-end of you arrows, but as I said before, if you weren't pleased with a TH not getting you a pass-through, you're kidding yourself to think a Rage will do any better, unless you've upped your poundage and DL that you were shooting to get considerably more energy.

I'm not necessarily saying Rages are good or bad, just that based on the original post, it doesn't make much good sense to switch to a Rage because you were disappointed by not getting a pass-through with another smaller diameter fixed blade BH. Once I figured it out (correctly tuning a bow), I started shooting BH's at least a couple shots every practice round to make sure that I'm still putting them where they need to be. And again, shooting BH's regularly helps keep your confidence up and I believe helps make sure you put the arrow on the spot when the shot really matters.

Annika I don't have to check my St's every time I pull them out of the quiver. You can justify your decision to yourself all you want, and it really makes no difference to me at all, but it still will not change the fact that the slick tricks I choose to use, as well as many other fixed blade heads, will not have a blade come loose simply by removing it from the quiver or bumping it against a twig or blade of grass. There are no o-rings to break or rot. No rubber bands. There are no micro screws or roll pins to shear or work loose. The blades are supported at the front and the rear through out their entire length where as mechanicals are heald in place at one small point and get weaker as they get longer.

Did you watch the video I psoted? If so you will realize that there is no question why I shoot Slick Tricks above all others.

I agree 100%. Every one should check their equipment befor they head to the woods.

What I am talking about is having to constantly check them if I am stalking. Checking them every time I put them into or pull them out of a quiver. Checking them if I bump a twig. Etc... Etc...

Why do you need a passthrough with a big gaping entry wound that u can stick your fist in? I havent shot them but ive seen what they will do to a rib cage!

One of my 3 blade heads didnt pass thru on a doe i shot directly in the shoulder. I didnt find any blood hardly. SO I do agree with your statement a bit b/c LUCKILY I heard her crash about 40yds away, but it was a pain trying to just stumble upon he b/c of the lack of blood.

Derek

Of course I upped my poundage. Im shooting a new bow :) Im shooting 314FPS. My Nova was only shooting 200something. I cant remember for sure. Plus I switched to carbons, wich are a little heavier than the Easton 2315s I was using. My old Nova was supposed to have 70# limbs on it. Found out they were only 60# limbs and I was only set at 53#draw weight.......I bought my Stinger and made sure that it had 70# limbs and now Im set at 60# draw weight. Now than Im getting used to that, I may crank her up a little more now. So im feeling my KE is high enough. After fighting with the Nova all season last year and losing 3 deer it was time for a change. The old Nova just didnt have it anymore... Not sure why the only broadheads I ever had passthroughs with on the Nova were Wasp Hammers and Muzzy MX 4s. Smaller cutting diameter maybe???? I dont know.

Ohh I agree with the last statement about stalking and having to check your equipment frequently. If youre using mechanicals and you are doing any stalking at all, or walking through brush it wont take much to jar a mechanical. I dont do any stalking so I shouldnt have that problem. And I rarely have an arrow nocked while walking to and from my stand, so chances of me bumping one before it leaves or reaches my rest are going to be slim, not sayign it cant happen and it wont happen, just saying my chanced of that happening are slim to none.

I've been bowhunting for some 30 years... I have never had to check my broadheads to make sure the blade are tight and that the heads are screwed on tight...

Christ... If I felt like I had to check all my equipment before I went hunting... I'd have to take a vacation day just to check everything... Come on people... The broadhead is one of the most important parts of your equipment... Why in the world would you take a chance with a rage???

I know why... Because all the big names in bow hunting are using them... That's why...