Public Service Announcement RE: Broadhead Flight
 

"They fly just like field points". How many times have you heard this? What does this mean, to you?

There is NO (non-mechanical) BH that will inherently or by default "fly just like field points". Somehow the marketing got off track....or bowhunters got more gullible. And, shooting a mechanical (because you can't get fixed blades to fly straight) is only putting a band-aid on a potential gaping wound (i.e. possible major tuning issue that's adversely affecting your arrow's performance).

To many of you vets, this is old hat. But it's something I learned from trial and ERROR (many).......

THE ONLY WAY A FIXED BLADE BH IS GOING TO FLY LIKE YOUR FIELD TIPS.....IS IF YOUR BOW IS PROPERLY TUNED TO SHOOT IT.

With the season looming, ask yourself if you fully understand what tuning your bow properly entails. And, if you don't....seek out someone in the forum (if you want to know who they are....I'm sure their names will be listed in this thread). There's no shame in this.

I think it would be great if Rob/PA; TFox; Bruce Lanthier (or anyone else well versed) would do a tutorial on Bow/BH tuning. The guides are one thing. An interactive tutorial would benefit MANY.

Very good post. I admit it i do not know how to tune my bow. They helped me set it up when i bought the bow. IT shoots good dead on as long as i shoot good. So i have worryed about it very little. That might cost me one day when that trophy is standing there. I am the type of person who welcomes help so if someone does the how to video. Thanks from me ahead of time

Good points Jeff, and it's not that difficult in most cases to get a bow tuned if you have correctly spined arrows. With that being said, if there are some of you guys who aren't sure, PM me your complete set-up, and I'll take a little time to put your set-up on OT2 and give you some feedback.

Until 2003, I didn't believe FBH would ever fly worth a damn, and I used Mechanicals almost exclusively,the more I learned, the more I realized I was WRONG!!! I now can tweak MOST set-ups and get FP's and BH's grouping real close with relative ease.

Also, if you take the time to BH tune your bow, you'll very likely find that it ends up shooting your FP's a bit better and tighter grouped as well. If any of you guys aren't sure how to do it, seek some advice, their is NO SHAME in asking for help. ESPECIALLY help that may make you a little better or more efficient hunter.

For some reason I thought this was covered as a sticky somewhere on the forum but I can't find it now...

Cut down to the bare basics, the blades on a fixed broadhead can affect the flight of an arrow...It might be an inch at 25 yards or several inches...To tune the bow to the broadhead you move either the nocking point up or down or the rest up or down or right and left slightly...In doing so both field points and broadheads will group together...

Paper tuning will get you in the ballpark but broadhead tuning will help accuracy with specific broadheads...

NC....you have to start here, IMO.....

Start with the correct spined arrow for your setup at your desired tip weight/DW/arrow length. Then....adjust for center shot.

GREAT POST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

One of my pet peeves with the broadhead industry and their advertising. All of them will fly like a FP out a properly tuned bow and none will if the bow is out of tune. I can't tell you how many guys I talk to that say brand X, Y or Z is junk and won't fly so I switched to mechanical heads. The advertising from the fixed blade and mechanical heads is deceptive and misleading.

Thanks for posting this. It should be bumped to the top every day.

I don't worry about that at all. I have different bows for arrow weights and purposes.
Because of the extreme weight differences. My hunting arrows weigh 543 grains, my 3d arrows are 350 grains, my indoor arrows are 320 grain .My practice arrows are all differnet.

If you can't hit your target with the first shot it won't matter what you group in the back yard, a second shot in the field is not likely. Know your equipment and what it can do, then work on yourself.

Rev....

You could shoot all of those arrows from the same bow.....and shoot them well....IF they were spined, correctly.

Jeff,

After our discussion on our previous post last week I have an update. My bow was tuned early this month, paper tuned, d-loop set at proper knock point, rest set, etc.

After the comments I read on the thread, I have been trying to shoot my Muzzy's (preferreded BH) with the confidence and accuracy from my MBH.

I have actually learned that tuning my arrows was much more productive than trying the multiple points of tuning the bow.

Make sure that your arrows are spined correctly to your DW, DL, arrow tip weight, etc. A simple o-ring, similar to what holds my MBH closed is all it took for me to get my Muzzy's flying good.

One of my issues was that my DW and DL put me on the cusp of a Gold Tip 5575 and a 7595. The 7595 with a better +/- straightness tolerance combined with how I set my inserts so my BH blades were at 12:00, 8:00, and 4:00. With the o-ring on and the BH screwed to the insert with maximum pressure on the o-ring after a touch of super glue on the BH screw my hunting arrows are set, and Im shooting an acceptable grouping with my FBH. I believe now that arrow tuning is just as key as bow tuning.

If you want the BH to go where you want, its most important to get the right spine, weight, and straightness tolerance to even start you in the right direction.

Some obviously will disagree, but at least now I am shooting awesome grouping with my muzzy's...something I couldnt do with my other arrow set.

You got that right!

Now....about spinning your blades......I think that's still a wives tale.

Jeff....You can't simply tune A bow or AN arrow. They're a team.

Glad you got yours flying well, though.

Good points man.

To some extent, I agree Jeff, I think that is you can get an arrow to spin true, it WILL usually shoot well out of a TUNED bow if the spine is right. But I know some guys that will swear that getting the BH's aligned with the old aluminums DID make a difference that was noticeable.


Hoyt,
Muzzy's are notorious for inconsistencies, be it in the user or the BH, I've seen them with ferules that weren't straight right from the package, therefore, I won't shoot them again. As for BH alignment with fletching, I shoot Slick Trick's which are 4 blade, and they fly BETTER than any other BH I've ever shot, an I honestly feel as confident shooting an arrow with a ST as I do one with a FP because they fly that well once the bow is tuned.

It is absolutely crucial to have the correct arrow spine before broadhead tuning can be succesful.

I know someone that tunes arrows out of a hootershooter and he gets up to 10 bucks a piece for this.


No tutorial I could ever come up with would ever cover it better than Easton's tuning guide.I have said it before and I say it again.All serious bowhunters need this guide.

Good post TFOX!

Dan

When I picked up my guide the shop owner looked at me and kinda laughed and said don't you already know everything in there.I said something to the effect that we can always learn something new.

I refer to mine several times a year.Mostly as a second opinion or just to make sure I am correct in my thinking.

one of the best statements i have heard Fox.

ill be one of the ones to admit that i DO NOT know enough about tuning. but i am slowly learning from some of the best. right here in these threads.

Yes sir, and I have before. But for me it was easier to set up each bow for a specific purpose. I have one bow that will work for a back up 3D or hunting with some minor adjusting.

Most of my arrows are 400 spine except for the hunting arrows are 340 spine because I am so heavy in front with 220 grains I'm at 21% FOC at total arrow weight of 543. I do keep two aluminum arrow in my hunting quiver that are over 600 grains, I keep them for ear shots on pigs under 20 yards.

with as this talk about fixed heads,we must also not overlook the proper flechting to control that fixed bh.In my opinion a helical flecth must be used to get proper flight from an arrow tipped with a fixed bh.The size of the flechting needs to be adequite also.

Just bumbing the thread, because it's good info. I shoot a 511 grain arrow, and a 400 grain arrow, off the same bow. Know you're equipment fellas.

Good post, we need more like this one.

The better tuned your setup is the less you need to rely on your stabilization with a helical fletch. I've shot standard 125 thunderheads with 3" slight offset vanes. Nothing special at all.

rybohunter I don't dispute the fact that a properly tuned setup will shoot fixed bh well,but with the speeds that todays bows are pushing arrows these days you can't go wrong with a good helical to offset the blades of the bh trying to steer the arrow.I will always shoot a helical and I have never had a broadhead flight problem while doing so.I have had problems trying to shoot them out of the same setup with an straight or slight offset fletch but if you get good flight with your setup then good,but I would say that is not the norm.

So what kind of fletch are you putting this helical on?

The past 3 years it has been blazers,before that I used either a 4"or 5" acc vanes.My point is it doesn't matter as long as it's a helical fletch which causes the arrow to spin for better control and flight.

Not necessarily. I've tuned my bow to shoot pretty straight, and I shoot Straight Blazers, helical Blazers, Straight 4" Duravanes and helical 4" Duravanes, and I can punch a BH where I want to with any of the 4. If the arrow is spined right and spins true, then the rest of the work needs to be put into the bow.

Give me a 4-5" offset fletch (or better yet...a feather) and I'll give you a 2" vane fletched helical EVERY TIME. The company that makes them (blazers) even recognizes the futility in trying to put a helical fletch on such a short vane.

IMO....you're picking a nit, here.

If you get good flght then good for you,but imo physics tells us that if you got basiclly wings on the front of an arrow they will fight with the back of the arrow for control if the arrow does not have some spin to it when shot,especially at high speeds of say 250 fps or more.Anyway I am just expressing my opinion based on my experience with doing it both ways,doesn't mean I'm right but hey I get great results with any broadhead I shoot and I have been using the old muzzy 3-blade 125 gr for several years now.The only reason I brought it up is that I believe a lot of people overlook the importence of good fletching on a hunting setup.Good arrow flight is the product of both the arrow and it's componets and the bow,both have to be matched to each other as best as you can for the best results.Gmmat didn't mean to change the course of your thread man.

I'll give you that one,to be honest I only switched to the blazers when I went to a wb rest,and I flecth them with an arizona flechter so your right it does not have as much helical as I would like,but you can put a good helical on them with practice and a different jig,but I get gr8 arrow flight with my setup and if I ever go back to a drop away rest I will go back to a 4 or 5" vane,I guess it is just that I have a lot of confidence in it.

An arrow will spin regardless if there is helical, offset or even straight fletch.The amount of spin and the speed of spin is the only question.


Yes,it is totally possible to get good arrow flight without helical vanes and better yet,feathers but no way will they do as well in adverse conditions as the helical feather.The problems will show up when you torque a bow at the shot or the wind is blowing at a fairly good rate.Contrary to popular belief,feathers even work when wet.


How well the bow and arrows are in tune definately make a difference and even the amount of foc is a huge factor but I will stick with helical feathers for fixed blade heads.I am starting to test out the Razr 2" feathers to see how well they work when adverse conditions are in play and so far,they are doing pretty well.

tfox that is the point I was trying to make,you hear about all these guys that spend all this money on a top of the line bow,arows and ect. that I think some overlook an important factor which is what type fletching to use with their setup to get the most accuracy and consistancy and I just happen to believe it is with some type of helical thats all I wanted to point out.If you get good flight with a straight or offset fletch then I believe a helical fletch would even give you better and more consistant flight.

Tre....

According to the marketing practices of Bohning.....too much spin is BAD for your arrow flight.

So which is it?

I agree 100% Helical fletch for Broadheads is the way to go.;)

Dan

TFOX, The Razr feathers may be little in size but in my experience with them were Big on performance.:biggrin:

Dan

Dan,I tested them wet today and when I say wet,I mean soaked and they didn't do well at all.My 4" feathers were still hitting the same spot at 30 yards but the razr were WAY off.

If I were going to use Razr's,I would carry a 4" in my quiver when it was raining.

At least you know now instead of then:happy0001:

GMMat,I don't know much about the marketing practices of bohning,what I do know is from my own personal experience through trail and error and for me helical is the only way to go when using fixed bh with traditional 4 or 5" vanes,the reason it is not as much of an issuie with the balzers is that they are much stiffer and higher in profile, although I still put as much a helical as I can get on them with the tools I have.And who says I am getting too much spin,I said I want my fletching to control my arrow in flight not my bh and the arrow spinning helps achieve that.

Oh as for as which is it.................... I guess that would depend on which company you ask,they are all just trying to sell their product and from my experiencs they will all make all kinds of unfounded claims to do so.I would suspect the makers of the quickspin vane claims otherwise.

Why do I need to worry about tuning my bow? I hit where I am aiming, bh or fp. I shoot both spitfire mechs and magnus stinger fixed. I bought my X-Force last year, slapped a whisker biscuit and sights on it, and proceeded to kill some deer and yotes.

Serious question...Why do I need to worry about tuning my bow? I've been bowhunting for 29 years, I've always been able to figure out how to shoot my bh's straight. With this new PSE, there were zero adjustments needed.

Good luck, guys. Have a great season.