Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I use aluminum arrows still and had it weighed the other day... it weighs 510 grains!!![:@] I picked up over 30 feet per second shooting my dads 440 grain arrows!

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Unless your a speed freak that arrow will pack a serious punch!:)

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Other than now you know how much they weigh what is wrong with your arrows?

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

That's not too heavy. I still shoot XX75's, with a 100gr Muzzy and they weigh 501grains.
My Vectrix (maxed at 63#) sends them down range at only 250fps, but I get a slamming 69 1/2 ft lbs of KE! That whacks them a good'n!:D

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

so would it be better to go lighter? Because it is a huge differnce in the flight of the arrow when i shoot dad's

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Speed is a good thing, but accuracy is a better thing! If speed's that important to you then you could go lighter, but I still get pass throughs only shooting 250fps. It's really up to you.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Having a heavier arrow is beneficial to an extent. But you CAN go too heavy, and when you do, not only will the arrow be slower, it will actually have less KE. Their is an optimum weight for each bow setup, and you would just have to find that on your own. Optimum weight is usually around 420 grains for most setups. Over that and you're losing so much speed that it actually hinders your KE.

Some would argue that the heavier it is the more momentum you get, which is true to an extent, but again their is a optimum range for your arrows weight. And in the case of bow hunting and arrow weight, KE and momentum are so closely related that they have little to no difference. Again, some will say thats wrong, but its not.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Yep its up to you. If faster is better go for it! I shoot a 50# bow and a 620 grain arrow at about 170fps and get a pass thru and the arrow sticks in the dirt on the other side! I like heavy!:)

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

ok this is the info i'm looking for.. thanks guys..

it just seems like the arrow flies so much better when its going a little faster...

my bow was shooting 226 with my 510 grain and 265 with a 440

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

In this case does better mean just less arc? I shoot a 605gr arrow at 220fps and, to tell the truth, could not care less how much arc it has. It tuned well with my bow, itgoes exactly where I am aiming andhits like a heavy weight boxer. Those things aremore important to me than "flatter trajectory".

Decide what is important to you and shoot a bow and arrow that meets those needs.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I like that Arc, nothing like seeing your arrow drop right in the pocket! :)

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

haha yea i dont know what im gonna do now?? I just think i like the way it shoots better with the lighter arrow

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

It's not terribly heavy, but heavy by most people today, but I think it's about perfect. LOL. I used to shoot 525 and found them great. Even now that I've gone to carbons I still shoot 473 or something like that. Don't worry if it's too heavy if you like them. It'll shoot through a Dodge.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

There should be balance in everything. Some go Heavy, heavy and won't shoot anything else.

Others shoot arrows extremely light and some even below IBO minimum weight. Not Good!!

I personally feel something in the middle gives you the best of both worlds. I prefer to shoot somewhere around 6 to 7 grains per pound, with a minimum FOC of at least 12%.A well tuned arrow at those specs will have more than adequate penetrating power for anything on North America.;)

Dan

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

And the winner is....;)

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I shot a arrow that is 380, it is fast and it has past threw ever time. But i am shooting a dream season and it is a fast bow

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

First off, 510 gr is BAD MEDICINE !!!!!

If your main target is deer I am not sure you really NEED that heavy of an arrow.

If you dropped down to about 430-440gr you will still have plenty of juice + the performance boost from some more speed.

I think the sweet spot for many bows is about 270 FPS and I will usually tinker with arrow weight till I get close to the 270 mark.

This has worked on many different bows and may work for you.

I also (for hunting) prefer a heavier broad head/stiffer spine combination to a lite broad head/soft spine combination.

I believe stiffer spine arrows penetrate better.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

yea that what i was thinking id move down too... a 440 grain including a 100 grain broad head

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I shoot 700 grain total arrow weight (not compound, a recurve)

I wish, looking back, I'd have shot that arrow weight with compounds. I think a 600 or even 700 mandatory arrow weight would do nothing but HELP archery

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I respectfully disagree. Arrow weight will not fix idiots who do Not know how to select the proper shot.

Besides that kind of arrow weight out of a compound is totally unnessary.

Dan

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Thank you. I totally agree. Heavier is not ALWAYS better. You can go TOO heavy. 700 grains is so heavy that you will lose so much speed that it will adversely effect your KE, so tell me, what exactly is so good about a 700 grain arrow..?

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

You may drop KE, but you increase momentum. Goodness, its easy to find out on here who has been into archery more than 5 years.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Here's a good read.

This has some darn good information, and it says momentum, more than KE, should be the term described by archers to talk about penetration.

KE is all of the arrows energy; sound energy, momentum, rotational energy, etc. Whereas momentum is the arrows FORWARD movement and its resistance to change direction. (mass x velocity)

bigcountry is actually right to an extent, although I'd be he doesnt understand quite why..

The article says, "Given two arrows, identical in shaft and broadhead materials and profile, and having EQUAL momentum, but possessing UNEQUAL mass, the arrow deriving the greater portion of its momentum from its mass will penetrate better. The Laws of Physics requires this to be true, and ALL of my field test data validates this to be the case."

http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/Momentum%20Kinetic%20Energy%20and%20Arrow%20Penetr ation.htm

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

BC, I've been Bowhunting over 40 years and killed xxx animals with a bow.

Although heavy arrows definitely have their advantages out of trad gear. Arrows weighing 700 grains are neither required nor preferred for optimum performance from a compound setup for normal Bowhunting.;)

Dan

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I never said it was preferred or needed, hense the reason I didn't reply to YOU. I was replying to the guy who needed to know what would be so good about a 700gr arrow.

I tend to agree, its somewhere in the middle. For instance, I shoot 450-500gr for my compounds. I like it. I have confidense if that critter suddenly moves a bit and I hit that shoulder. And I have proved to myself several times that 450gr with 11% FOC is better than 8% FOC and 350gr. But 550gr might feel little heavy for me. Not hurting anything.

But yes, I require the 600gr or more for trad.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

bigcountry, what would a traditional bow with a 600 grain arrow getfor FPS?

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

A fast recurve 60lb bow could get a 600gr kicking at 190-200fps with a 28" draw. Thats a fast one like a adcock bow, or totally fiberglass recurve.

Your typical longbow or recurve usually shoots a 10gr/lb draw arrow at 28" draw at 175fps. So I see a 50lb bow usually shoot a 500gr arrow 175fps. With a super clean release, maybe 180fps.

With a selfbow solid one piece I usually see 155fps for same criteria of 10gr/lb draw arrow. I have however seen a holmgaarddesigned osage selfbowwith heat treated belly shoot 180fps.But I know I can't build anything that good.

There are claims out there of selfbows that shoot 190-200fps with 10gr/lb of draw. But I have yet to see it. Its kinda like a unicorn.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

My guess would be the guy shooting that bow with that arrow could care less what the FPS is. ;) I'm just sayin'.... :D

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I agree BHF! When I shot trad gear I never gave speed a consideration.

Rifle hunters would not think of using the same weightBullet or Caliber of gun for that matteron all Big Game in North America, but some Bowhunters think it's either Heavy or Light.

No way I'd go Bear hunting on a Bait with an arrow weighing 5 grains per pound. I'd use my heavier arrow for obvious reasons.

On the other hand I would not use my 500 plus grain arrows hunting Antelope or Mule Deer out west either.

I think the reason is also obvious;)

Dan

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

compounders don't understand the difference bigcountry-I certainly never did and I balk at traveling the normal pace of anything and STILL never understood that KE is the worst measurement in bowhunting

speed is irrelevant too -I know, I know, that concept is lost in the compound world but 15 yard shots don't need 350 fps, they need heavy, bone crushing arrow/broadhead combo's powered by momentum. Want to shoot farther than 15-20 yard? Take up rifle hunting - archery and bowhunting is a close range game. I don't know what my bow shoots - fast enough, maybe 165 fps? I've got no idea, might be 150 or 180 .... and don't care.

I put 100 gr brass inserts into my ICS 400 shafts, use weight tubes and a 160 grain 3 blade Thunderhead. Thats my current setup, works wonderfully, thats 260 grains up front.





Again I'll state that a mandatory 700 gr arrow weight for all archery bows would be only a positive for bowhunting, not a negative.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I agree, and am with ya. But even some of the trad guys are ate up with speed these days. OL doesn't have a 2 year wait list for nothing. I have seen OL bows, and not that impressed by thier beauty like I am a Morrison, or even zipper.

I generally find I require 10gr/lb with longbows due to quietness, and consistency between bow and bow. I, like you, own too many trad bows, and I want to hit same POI with them all. So I weigh down my arrows to get at least 15% FOC and hit where I want to hit.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I agree with ya! You and I know heavy would be a good thing but I wonder how the bow manufactures would feel...:D:D:D:D

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

A good friend of you and I Joe did some pretty good extensive testing with heavy vs light arrows and what they do. I'll take his word for It any day, the man knows his stuff.

My dad also did some testing with light vs heavy arrows for testing penetration. His recurve kicked the heck out of his buddy's compound when It came to penetration. This was 15 years ago and the compound had the overdraw set up. I know If I was shooting a compound I'd be packing 600+ grains.

Each to their own though, we all have certain preferences

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

He sure does!:) I like the saying "it's pretty hard to stop a speeding freight train." When I started shooting a heavy arrow I was amazed how the deep arrow would bury itself into my block target compared to the lighter arrows I was setting up! Like you said to each his own. :D

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

meanv, on antelope I can understand, but with muleys thats another story, sure they are noelk but they are not small lightweight and thin skined like a antelope or whitetails either. I too shoot on the heavy side and don't regret it one bit. My Drenalin will kick out a 495 grain Full Metal jacket at just over 280 f/s. Of course I have a 30" DL and its cranked down to 70 plus pounds but still that is moving and will blow through any mule deer and most elk out to 50 yards. I know one thing, I like to see archers error on the heavy sideof arrows then error on the light side when elk are on the menue. I hate seeingelkhunters packing a speed demon of a bow with lightweight arrows tipped with a expanables. Its a recipe for disaster for sure. I tend to agree with bigcountry and if anyone cares I have been bowhunting my home state of Idaho now for almost 20 years since I was a young teenager.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Shot an Elk at 84 yards with a 400 grain arrow, and blew clean through him. It was wide open country and I had stalked this Bull for 3 hours. We had been shooting up to 90 yards all summer and I felt confident in the shot.

I never did find the arrow, but the Bull only went 60 yards.

Did I hit major bone? Nope! but if I had it would have been a poor shot. A poor shot is a poor shot, and IMHO another 100 to 150 grains on the arrow would not have made a difference if the shot was poor.

I've been chasing critters all over the US and Canada for over 40 years. A medium weight arrow 6 to 7 grains per pound is adequate for anything I hunt, although like I stated I will under certain circumstances use a heavier arrow as I am not really Pro light or Pro Heavy.

I had rather match the setup for the game intended.;)

One mind set that is totally wrong IMO is that Big broadheads or Heavy arrows will fix poor shots. They will NOT!! Only take a shot where you know you can place the arrow where it needs to be.

I will not use expandables because of things seen and experienced.:D

Dan

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

After reading the responses of this thread.

Not 1 person asked if the heavy arrow is the correct spine for the bow.

Just maybe the lighter arrow is the correct spine for the bow therefore has the better flight.

Just some food for thought.:)

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

That is all good for you. You have the experience and skillset to accomplish that with a lighter arrow. Do you actually believe that the majority of bowhunters can do the same thing? And no one is saying heavy arrows will "fix poor shots", that is you making something up. What is being said is that a heavier arrow will help compensate for a poor shot. Do you think the majority of bowhunters out there have you experience and skillset? I don't and that is why I would agree with idahoelkinstructor that bowhunters should err on the side of heavy rather than light.

It's always funny in these kinds of debates that a person will say something like " I can use/do this thing just fine so it should apply to everyone". Well, if everyone had person's experience and skillset then that would be fine. Unfortunately, most of the bowhunters I run into don't have the faintest idea of how to tune their bow, what arrow spine is and what it affects and don't practice except right before their bow season opener.

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

I think everyone should experiment and learn what works for THEM!

You never see me saying (unlike many)bowhunters should use only light or only heavy arrows. I still doubt any archer should take a shot at game with the mindset that if I make a marginal hit then my Super Cut broadhead or my 2# arrow will make the difference and..........................................

Yes from running a check station for years as well as a proshop many, many do unfortunately have that mindset. I never said anyone here did;)

Some keys to a good penetrating arrow are good tune/straight arrow flight, and IMO an FOC of at least 12% I personally prefer even more.

Bruce you are contradicting yourself when you say someone with lower skills should yada, yada,..................................

Actually what they should do is limit their shots to ones that they can place the arrow where it should be not beef up their arrows in hopes when they go past their skill limits the heavy arrow will somehow make a difference. Bad Choice! I've seen guys shooting 500 plus grain arrows that I swear those arrrows got almost sideways a couple of times before they got straightened out and got to the target. Why? Because they were so out of balance, out of spine, and the bow was No way tuned for them either.

If this guy was shooting Light arrows they would have gotten the blame for his poor performance. I have nothing against Heavy arrows, and yes it would be better to be a little heavy vs too light, but I do believe there are optimum setups and encourage everyone to experiment around and find yours.;)

A good shot is about many things which can be but are Not limited to distance, angle, setup in hand, and the state of the animal. Relaxed?? or wired??

Do Gun hunters use a 458 Mag on Antelope?or Deer? Should he use a 243 on Elk? or Moose? I don't know? I'm not a gun hunter it does notinterest me at all. I guess I just don't like the Boom, and I was shot once in a hunting accident, so when I was about 12 I went to hunting alone and only with a bow.

Y'All have Fun finding that perfect setup!!

I'm going turkey hunting:D

Dan

RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
 

Actually I think I said this:
I don't think I mentioned lower skills and, erring on the side of heavy could mean 400gr for elkinstead of 360gr ;). I'm not sure I see the contradiction.