Is my arrow really heavy?
03-31-2009, 06:34 AM
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
ORIGINAL: stealthycat II
compounders don't understand the difference bigcountry-I certainly never did and I balk at traveling the normal pace of anything and STILL never understood that KE is the worst measurement in bowhunting
speed is irrelevant too -I know, I know, that concept is lost in the compound world but 15 yard shots don't need 350 fps, they need heavy, bone crushing arrow/broadhead combo's powered by momentum. Want to shoot farther than 15-20 yard? Take up rifle hunting - archery and bowhunting is a close range game. I don't know what my bow shoots - fast enough, maybe 165 fps? I've got no idea, might be 150 or 180 .... and don't care.
I put 100 gr brass inserts into my ICS 400 shafts, use weight tubes and a 160 grain 3 blade Thunderhead. Thats my current setup, works wonderfully, thats 260 grains up front.
Again I'll state that a mandatory 700 gr arrow weight for all archery bows would be only a positive for bowhunting, not a negative.
compounders don't understand the difference bigcountry-I certainly never did and I balk at traveling the normal pace of anything and STILL never understood that KE is the worst measurement in bowhunting
speed is irrelevant too -I know, I know, that concept is lost in the compound world but 15 yard shots don't need 350 fps, they need heavy, bone crushing arrow/broadhead combo's powered by momentum. Want to shoot farther than 15-20 yard? Take up rifle hunting - archery and bowhunting is a close range game. I don't know what my bow shoots - fast enough, maybe 165 fps? I've got no idea, might be 150 or 180 .... and don't care.
I put 100 gr brass inserts into my ICS 400 shafts, use weight tubes and a 160 grain 3 blade Thunderhead. Thats my current setup, works wonderfully, thats 260 grains up front.
Again I'll state that a mandatory 700 gr arrow weight for all archery bows would be only a positive for bowhunting, not a negative.
I generally find I require 10gr/lb with longbows due to quietness, and consistency between bow and bow. I, like you, own too many trad bows, and I want to hit same POI with them all. So I weigh down my arrows to get at least 15% FOC and hit where I want to hit.
03-31-2009, 08:13 AM
#32
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin/Michigan
Posts: 9,679
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
ORIGINAL: stealthycat II
compounders don't understand the difference bigcountry - I certainly never did and I balk at traveling the normal pace of anything and STILL never understood that KE is the worst measurement in bowhunting
speed is irrelevant too - I know, I know, that concept is lost in the compound world but 15 yard shots don't need 350 fps, they need heavy, bone crushing arrow/broadhead combo's powered by momentum. Want to shoot farther than 15-20 yard? Take up rifle hunting - archery and bowhunting is a close range game. I don't know what my bow shoots - fast enough, maybe 165 fps? I've got no idea, might be 150 or 180 .... and don't care.
I put 100 gr brass inserts into my ICS 400 shafts, use weight tubes and a 160 grain 3 blade Thunderhead. Thats my current setup, works wonderfully, thats 260 grains up front.
Again I'll state that a mandatory 700 gr arrow weight for all archery bows would be only a positive for bowhunting, not a negative.
compounders don't understand the difference bigcountry - I certainly never did and I balk at traveling the normal pace of anything and STILL never understood that KE is the worst measurement in bowhunting
speed is irrelevant too - I know, I know, that concept is lost in the compound world but 15 yard shots don't need 350 fps, they need heavy, bone crushing arrow/broadhead combo's powered by momentum. Want to shoot farther than 15-20 yard? Take up rifle hunting - archery and bowhunting is a close range game. I don't know what my bow shoots - fast enough, maybe 165 fps? I've got no idea, might be 150 or 180 .... and don't care.
I put 100 gr brass inserts into my ICS 400 shafts, use weight tubes and a 160 grain 3 blade Thunderhead. Thats my current setup, works wonderfully, thats 260 grains up front.
Again I'll state that a mandatory 700 gr arrow weight for all archery bows would be only a positive for bowhunting, not a negative.
I agree with ya! You and I know heavy would be a good thing but I wonder how the bow manufactures would feel...
03-31-2009, 03:17 PM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
A good friend of you and I Joe did some pretty good extensive testing with heavy vs light arrows and what they do. I'll take his word for It any day, the man knows his stuff.
My dad also did some testing with light vs heavy arrows for testing penetration. His recurve kicked the heck out of his buddy's compound when It came to penetration. This was 15 years ago and the compound had the overdraw set up. I know If I was shooting a compound I'd be packing 600+ grains.
Each to their own though, we all have certain preferences
My dad also did some testing with light vs heavy arrows for testing penetration. His recurve kicked the heck out of his buddy's compound when It came to penetration. This was 15 years ago and the compound had the overdraw set up. I know If I was shooting a compound I'd be packing 600+ grains.
Each to their own though, we all have certain preferences
04-01-2009, 12:29 PM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin/Michigan
Posts: 9,679
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
ORIGINAL: Schultzy
A good friend of you and I Joe did some pretty good extensive testing with heavy vs light arrows and what they do. I'll take his word for It any day, the man knows his stuff.
A good friend of you and I Joe did some pretty good extensive testing with heavy vs light arrows and what they do. I'll take his word for It any day, the man knows his stuff.
He sure does!
I like the saying "it's pretty hard to stop a speeding freight train." When I started shooting a heavy arrow I was amazed how the deep arrow would bury itself into my block target compared to the lighter arrows I was setting up! Like you said to each his own.
04-01-2009, 07:46 PM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Posts: 2,555
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
ORIGINAL: MeanV2
I agree BHF! When I shot trad gear I never gave speed a consideration.
Rifle hunters would not think of using the same weightBullet or Caliber of gun for that matteron all Big Game in North America, but some Bowhunters think it's either Heavy or Light.
No way I'd go Bear hunting on a Bait with an arrow weighing 5 grains per pound. I'd use my heavier arrow for obvious reasons.
On the other hand I would not use my 500 plus grain arrows hunting Antelope or Mule Deer out west either.
I think the reason is also obvious
Dan
ORIGINAL: BowHuntingFool
My guess would be the guy shooting that bow with that arrow could care less what the FPS is. I'm just sayin'....
ORIGINAL: fingerz42
bigcountry, what would a traditional bow with a 600 grain arrow getfor FPS?
bigcountry, what would a traditional bow with a 600 grain arrow getfor FPS?
I'm just sayin'....
Rifle hunters would not think of using the same weightBullet or Caliber of gun for that matteron all Big Game in North America, but some Bowhunters think it's either Heavy or Light.
No way I'd go Bear hunting on a Bait with an arrow weighing 5 grains per pound. I'd use my heavier arrow for obvious reasons.
On the other hand I would not use my 500 plus grain arrows hunting Antelope or Mule Deer out west either.
I think the reason is also obvious
Dan
04-02-2009, 03:05 AM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 7,367
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
Shot an Elk at 84 yards with a 400 grain arrow, and blew clean through him. It was wide open country and I had stalked this Bull for 3 hours. We had been shooting up to 90 yards all summer and I felt confident in the shot.
I never did find the arrow, but the Bull only went 60 yards.
Did I hit major bone? Nope! but if I had it would have been a poor shot. A poor shot is a poor shot, and IMHO another 100 to 150 grains on the arrow would not have made a difference if the shot was poor.
I've been chasing critters all over the US and Canada for over 40 years. A medium weight arrow 6 to 7 grains per pound is adequate for anything I hunt, although like I stated I will under certain circumstances use a heavier arrow as I am not really Pro light or Pro Heavy.
I had rather match the setup for the game intended.
One mind set that is totally wrong IMO is that Big broadheads or Heavy arrows will fix poor shots. They will NOT!! Only take a shot where you know you can place the arrow where it needs to be.
I will not use expandables because of things seen and experienced.
Dan
I never did find the arrow, but the Bull only went 60 yards.
Did I hit major bone? Nope! but if I had it would have been a poor shot. A poor shot is a poor shot, and IMHO another 100 to 150 grains on the arrow would not have made a difference if the shot was poor.
I've been chasing critters all over the US and Canada for over 40 years. A medium weight arrow 6 to 7 grains per pound is adequate for anything I hunt, although like I stated I will under certain circumstances use a heavier arrow as I am not really Pro light or Pro Heavy.
I had rather match the setup for the game intended.
One mind set that is totally wrong IMO is that Big broadheads or Heavy arrows will fix poor shots. They will NOT!! Only take a shot where you know you can place the arrow where it needs to be.
I will not use expandables because of things seen and experienced.
Dan
04-02-2009, 04:26 AM
#37
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Burleson TX USA
Posts: 6,455
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
After reading the responses of this thread.
Not 1 person asked if the heavy arrow is the correct spine for the bow.
Just maybe the lighter arrow is the correct spine for the bow therefore has the better flight.
Just some food for thought.
Not 1 person asked if the heavy arrow is the correct spine for the bow.
Just maybe the lighter arrow is the correct spine for the bow therefore has the better flight.
Just some food for thought.
04-02-2009, 05:48 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
ORIGINAL: MeanV2
Shot an Elk at 84 yards with a 400 grain arrow, and blew clean through him. It was wide open country and I had stalked this Bull for 3 hours. We had been shooting up to 90 yards all summer and I felt confident in the shot.
I never did find the arrow, but the Bull only went 60 yards.
Did I hit major bone? Nope! but if I had it would have been a poor shot. A poor shot is a poor shot, and IMHO another 100 to 150 grains on the arrow would not have made a difference if the shot was poor.
I've been chasing critters all over the US and Canada for over 40 years. A medium weight arrow 6 to 7 grains per pound is adequate for anything I hunt, although like I stated I will under certain circumstances use a heavier arrow as I am not really Pro light or Pro Heavy.
I had rather match the setup for the game intended.
One mind set that is totally wrong IMO is that Big broadheads or Heavy arrows will fix poor shots. They will NOT!! Only take a shot where you know you can place the arrow where it needs to be.
I will not use expandables because of things seen and experienced.
Dan
Shot an Elk at 84 yards with a 400 grain arrow, and blew clean through him. It was wide open country and I had stalked this Bull for 3 hours. We had been shooting up to 90 yards all summer and I felt confident in the shot.
I never did find the arrow, but the Bull only went 60 yards.
Did I hit major bone? Nope! but if I had it would have been a poor shot. A poor shot is a poor shot, and IMHO another 100 to 150 grains on the arrow would not have made a difference if the shot was poor.
I've been chasing critters all over the US and Canada for over 40 years. A medium weight arrow 6 to 7 grains per pound is adequate for anything I hunt, although like I stated I will under certain circumstances use a heavier arrow as I am not really Pro light or Pro Heavy.
I had rather match the setup for the game intended.
One mind set that is totally wrong IMO is that Big broadheads or Heavy arrows will fix poor shots. They will NOT!! Only take a shot where you know you can place the arrow where it needs to be.
I will not use expandables because of things seen and experienced.
Dan
It's always funny in these kinds of debates that a person will say something like " I can use/do this thing just fine so it should apply to everyone". Well, if everyone had person's experience and skillset then that would be fine. Unfortunately, most of the bowhunters I run into don't have the faintest idea of how to tune their bow, what arrow spine is and what it affects and don't practice except right before their bow season opener.
04-02-2009, 07:05 AM
#39
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location:
Posts: 7,367
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
I think everyone should experiment and learn what works for THEM!
You never see me saying (unlike many)bowhunters should use only light or only heavy arrows. I still doubt any archer should take a shot at game with the mindset that if I make a marginal hit then my Super Cut broadhead or my 2# arrow will make the difference and..........................................
Yes from running a check station for years as well as a proshop many, many do unfortunately have that mindset. I never said anyone here did
Some keys to a good penetrating arrow are good tune/straight arrow flight, and IMO an FOC of at least 12% I personally prefer even more.
Bruce you are contradicting yourself when you say someone with lower skills should yada, yada,..................................
Actually what they should do is limit their shots to ones that they can place the arrow where it should be not beef up their arrows in hopes when they go past their skill limits the heavy arrow will somehow make a difference. Bad Choice! I've seen guys shooting 500 plus grain arrows that I swear those arrrows got almost sideways a couple of times before they got straightened out and got to the target. Why? Because they were so out of balance, out of spine, and the bow was No way tuned for them either.
If this guy was shooting Light arrows they would have gotten the blame for his poor performance. I have nothing against Heavy arrows, and yes it would be better to be a little heavy vs too light, but I do believe there are optimum setups and encourage everyone to experiment around and find yours.
A good shot is about many things which can be but are Not limited to distance, angle, setup in hand, and the state of the animal. Relaxed?? or wired??
Do Gun hunters use a 458 Mag on Antelope?or Deer? Should he use a 243 on Elk? or Moose? I don't know? I'm not a gun hunter it does notinterest me at all. I guess I just don't like the Boom, and I was shot once in a hunting accident, so when I was about 12 I went to hunting alone and only with a bow.
Y'All have Fun finding that perfect setup!!
I'm going turkey hunting
Dan
You never see me saying (unlike many)bowhunters should use only light or only heavy arrows. I still doubt any archer should take a shot at game with the mindset that if I make a marginal hit then my Super Cut broadhead or my 2# arrow will make the difference and..........................................
Yes from running a check station for years as well as a proshop many, many do unfortunately have that mindset. I never said anyone here did
Some keys to a good penetrating arrow are good tune/straight arrow flight, and IMO an FOC of at least 12% I personally prefer even more.
Bruce you are contradicting yourself when you say someone with lower skills should yada, yada,..................................
Actually what they should do is limit their shots to ones that they can place the arrow where it should be not beef up their arrows in hopes when they go past their skill limits the heavy arrow will somehow make a difference. Bad Choice! I've seen guys shooting 500 plus grain arrows that I swear those arrrows got almost sideways a couple of times before they got straightened out and got to the target. Why? Because they were so out of balance, out of spine, and the bow was No way tuned for them either.
If this guy was shooting Light arrows they would have gotten the blame for his poor performance. I have nothing against Heavy arrows, and yes it would be better to be a little heavy vs too light, but I do believe there are optimum setups and encourage everyone to experiment around and find yours.
A good shot is about many things which can be but are Not limited to distance, angle, setup in hand, and the state of the animal. Relaxed?? or wired??
Do Gun hunters use a 458 Mag on Antelope?or Deer? Should he use a 243 on Elk? or Moose? I don't know? I'm not a gun hunter it does notinterest me at all. I guess I just don't like the Boom, and I was shot once in a hunting accident, so when I was about 12 I went to hunting alone and only with a bow.
Y'All have Fun finding that perfect setup!!
I'm going turkey hunting
Dan
04-02-2009, 07:55 AM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Southern MD
Posts: 2,520
RE: Is my arrow really heavy?
Actually I think I said this:
I don't think I mentioned lower skills and, erring on the side of heavy could mean 400gr for elkinstead of 360gr . I'm not sure I see the contradiction.
ORIGINAL: brucelanthier
I would agree with idahoelkinstructor that bowhunters should err on the side of heavy rather than light.
I would agree with idahoelkinstructor that bowhunters should err on the side of heavy rather than light.
. I'm not sure I see the contradiction.