Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
02-12-2009, 08:38 AM
#21
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kodiak, AK
Posts: 2,877
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?
02-12-2009, 08:39 AM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eldred, PA
Posts: 1,667
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
We've been asked this exact question numerous times, and without throwing all the physics and ballistic numbers at you the answer for bowhunting applications is NO. You don't need to buy a rangefinder with ARC. This is a marketing gymmic and dont be fooled. If you want the "true" distance, range a tree at the same height as you, but at the horizontal distance of your target. Problems solved, now you have the "true" distance and you saved $100.
02-12-2009, 08:42 AM
#23
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location:
Posts: 37
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
Not for bowhunting, unless you're shooting down a cliff !
I hunt between 20-35' high. When I range the bse of a tree from my stand, then range level across- the difference is generally a half yard(even at 40yards). Not really a big deal.
A deer standing at 35yards, I will aim at dead on with my 30yard pin(not counting "drop" compensation).
For solid projectile, firearms hunting- it is a valuable tool for those hunters that may encounter along range shot andare unableprocess the ballistic formula in their minds.
I mostly bowhunt, but do head out with a firearm for some spot and stalk. My rangefinder does not have ARC, but I also understand the ballistics of MY weapon, so it's not needed.
Like said before- if you're buying a new rangefinder and it wont break the bank to purchase a unit with ARC, then just do it. It sure isnt going to hurt.
I hunt between 20-35' high. When I range the bse of a tree from my stand, then range level across- the difference is generally a half yard(even at 40yards). Not really a big deal.
A deer standing at 35yards, I will aim at dead on with my 30yard pin(not counting "drop" compensation).
For solid projectile, firearms hunting- it is a valuable tool for those hunters that may encounter along range shot andare unableprocess the ballistic formula in their minds.
I mostly bowhunt, but do head out with a firearm for some spot and stalk. My rangefinder does not have ARC, but I also understand the ballistics of MY weapon, so it's not needed.
Like said before- if you're buying a new rangefinder and it wont break the bank to purchase a unit with ARC, then just do it. It sure isnt going to hurt.
02-12-2009, 09:31 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Licking County, Ohio
Posts: 1,264
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher
What the rangefinder is giving you in your example is the hypotenuse so your knowns are (A) and (C). What you want to know is the base (B) which is the distance that gravity is working on your arrow. That distance will always be less than the hypotenuse (straight line distance) whether you're shooting up or down.
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?
02-12-2009, 02:37 PM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: fingerz42
We've been asked this exact question numerous times, and without throwing all the physics and ballistic numbers at you the answer for bowhunting applications is NO. You don't need to buy a rangefinder with ARC. This is a marketing gymmic and dont be fooled. If you want the "true" distance, range a tree at the same height as you, but at the horizontal distance of your target. Problems solved, now you have the "true" distance and you saved $100.
We've been asked this exact question numerous times, and without throwing all the physics and ballistic numbers at you the answer for bowhunting applications is NO. You don't need to buy a rangefinder with ARC. This is a marketing gymmic and dont be fooled. If you want the "true" distance, range a tree at the same height as you, but at the horizontal distance of your target. Problems solved, now you have the "true" distance and you saved $100.
See how that works for you shooting uphill.
Or from a deerstand 20 feet up but shooting down the side a hill that is another 30 foot drop and the deer is only 20 yards from the base of the tree.As has been stated,most of the time for most hunters,it will rarely be something you "need" but there are times when having it would be extremely helpfull.Plus,if buying a new rangefinder,the price is on par with those without the arc system so it would be worth getting.
02-12-2009, 02:40 PM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
I could go along with that if I were shooting beyond 50 yards, but I usually shoot 35 yards or less at deer. When practicing, I just use my regular range finder and it puts me in the bullseye everytime.
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher
What the rangefinder is giving you in your example is the hypotenuse so your knowns are (A) and (C). What you want to know is the base (B) which is the distance that gravity is working on your arrow. That distance will always be less than the hypotenuse (straight line distance) whether you're shooting up or down.
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawing that I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2 = C2 ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawing that I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2 = C2 ?
The difference is greater at steep angles.Steep angles are usually encountered at closer yardages.
(under 50 yards)
02-12-2009, 04:10 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 1,424
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher
Mountain goat at 45 yards by your rangefinder at about what you figure to be a 55 degree down angle. What do you shoot him for? (Jeopardy music in background...) Is your angle estimate accurate? Do you carry cosines in your pocket? Point is that it's more than just a little math on top of a bunch of other stuff you've got to stop from going wrong. They are definitely worth their weight and expense in those extreme circumstances.
ps.) (COS 55)(45) = 26 Hard to trust it but if you do... Bam! dead goat.
ORIGINAL: MeanV2
It takes some extreme situations before it is necessary. All it takes is a little math to figurethat out.
Dan
It takes some extreme situations before it is necessary. All it takes is a little math to figurethat out.
Dan
Is your angle estimate accurate? Do you carry cosines in your pocket? Point is that it's more than just a little math on top of a bunch of other stuff you've got to stop from going wrong. They are definitely worth their weight and expense in those extreme circumstances.ps.) (COS 55)(45) = 26 Hard to trust it but if you do... Bam! dead goat.
02-12-2009, 05:53 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Eldred, PA
Posts: 1,667
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
TFOX,I see sort of what you're getting at, but you clearly have no phsyics background. Shooting uphill, or downhill are the exact same if given the same angle. Shooting 10 degrees uphill, will be the same as shooting 10 degrees downhill. Theres no difference in where you would aim. Weird huh? And for your application of being 20 foot up a tree, and shooting another 30 downhill, thats all fine and dandy, but I'm still shooting with my 20 yard pin. And then I'm going to stop hunting off cliffs.
02-12-2009, 06:02 PM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kansas city, Missouri
Posts: 2,571
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
i've only seen (actually watched on tv) one situation where it was needed. I forgot what show it was but the guy was sneaking up on black bearin mountainsand the shot was around 100 yards, but he was up almost directly above the bear and the shot only ended up being "like" a 20 yard shot... he smoked the bear BTW
) one situation where it was needed. I forgot what show it was but the guy was sneaking up on black bearin mountainsand the shot was around 100 yards, but he was up almost directly above the bear and the shot only ended up being "like" a 20 yard shot... he smoked the bear BTW
02-13-2009, 02:15 AM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Licking County, Ohio
Posts: 1,264
RE: Rangefinders w/ ARC etc.???
ORIGINAL: TFOX
The difference is greater at steep angles.Steep angles are usually encountered at closer yardages.(under 50 yards)
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
I could go along with that if I were shooting beyond 50 yards, but I usually shoot 35 yards or less at deer. When practicing, I just use my regular range finder and it puts me in the bullseye everytime.
ORIGINAL: KodiakArcher
What the rangefinder is giving you in your example is the hypotenuse so your knowns are (A) and (C). What you want to know is the base (B) which is the distance that gravity is working on your arrow. That distance will always be less than the hypotenuse (straight line distance) whether you're shooting up or down.
ORIGINAL: excalibur43
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that every drawingthat I have seen that explains the " ARC" is a hunter in a tree stand, down to the tree base, and out to the target. If I'm not mistaken, that creates a " Right Triangle". I may be mistaken, as it has been alot of years since I have taken Geometry, but wouldn't the distance from the hunter in the stand to the target represent the " Hypotenuse" ( ? ), of the Right Triangle, which is found by adding the distance from the hunter to the base of the tree, to the distance from the base of the tree to the target? If so, then the distance should be longer, not shorter. I think it's the Pythagorean Theorum ( ? )- A2 + B2= C2 ?
The difference is greater at steep angles.Steep angles are usually encountered at closer yardages.
(under 50 yards)