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NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
Although not a member of the NRA (why I have no idea), I've always supported what they do. Like most hunters, I am very pro gun. But the recent actions of the NRA in southern West Virginia is leaving me shocked and if I am honest, somewhat angry.
In southern West Virginia, there are four counties that have been archery-only for deer since the mid 70's. At the time, the whitetail deer population had nearly been wiped out. Due to the archery only status and a one buck limit, the population has slowly recovered although it is still no where near the population of most counties in West Virginia. Also due to the archery-only status and one-buck limit, the age structure is much higher than what is found elsewhere in the state. In these counties bucks have a great chance to reach their true potential. It is no surprise that 80-90% of the P&Y bucks taken in the state are from these 4 counties. You will find that most hunters in these counties allow small bucks to walk as a rule which is the opposite of what you find elsewhere in the state. Most of the hunters that are from these areas wouldn't trade the situation that is found in these 4 counties for nothing. Why would they? It is a treasure trove of trophy bucks. You can go almost anywhere in this four-county area, put out a little corn and a camera, and have a very good chance to have a P&Y buck appear on camera within a few days. Unfortunately, it seems the setup is not loved by everyone. Evidently a small number of NRA members from this area notified the higher ups in the NRA and complained that they aren't able to gun hunt in these four counties. The NRA responded by sending out a questionnaire to all of their members from these counties to ask their opinion on the matter. I have heard through various sources that the NRA plans to lobby the West Virginia legislature to allow some form of gun season in these counties. The NRA is a powerful lobby group, but I think they are setting a dangerous precedent here. They are getting away from gun rights and toying with game management, which in my opinion they have no business being involved with. The job of game management belongs to the Department of Natural Resourses for each state. Besides it isn't like the state is restricting gun use in these counties. You can still gun hunt small game, coyote, bear, birds, etc. The only species that is archery-only is whitetail. One can only hope that nothing comes from this. I do know that the West Virginia Bowhunters Association is fighting it. But I am from the area and probably biased. What do you guys think? Thoughts? |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
I think the NRA should stick to worrying about the Obama train that is starting to roll already. I doubt they will spend much time on that issue, but I guess we'll see.
I would love to be able to hunt an area that was bow only. The super long gun seasons and brown its down mentality, combined withtoo many buck tagsfor too long where I hunt, has definitely hurt the chances of even seeing a P&Y, much less anything bigger. Good luck, keep us posted. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
The NRA lately has really ticked me off with sticking there nose's where they don't belong. 1st It was the xbow thing In PA and now this. Do they realize that many of there members are also bowhunters? Sounds to me there getting a bit cocky!![:'(]
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: WV Hunter I think the NRA should stick to worrying about the Obama train that is starting to roll already. I doubt they will spend much time on that issue, but I guess we'll see. I would love to be able to hunt an area that was bow only. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
I hope this is not true. I hunt in Wyoming county most every year and it's a greatarea to take a big buck. The country is rough and full of good bucks. In fact it's one of the very few areas in the nation where there is actually a healthy deer hear in terms of bucks to does as well as the over all health of the hear. The NRA should keep there nose out of non gun related issues. This is a wildlife managment situation, not any type of gun control.
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
People wanted the NRA to get more active in hunters rights, so they did. Now there's areas that are only open to bowhunting, some for good reason, others possibly not so any longer. If the area in W. VA can handle the increased hunting that gun hunting would allow, it should be allowed.
that said, the NRA should butt out, this should be aquestion for the F&G of W. VA. If the population can handle it and there's no safety issue, gun hunting should be allowed. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
If the population can handle it and there's no safety issue, gun hunting should be allowed. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
My opinion is the NRA is doing exactly what they should be doing, obtaining mote hunting lands for hunters! More power to them!!!! Sounds to me like some Bowhunters in WV are being a little selfish. jmo!
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: BowHuntingFool My opinion is the NRA is doing exactly what they should be doing, obtaining mote hunting lands for hunters! More power to them!!!! Sounds to me like some Bowhunters in WV are being a little selfish. jmo! The population of deer in these counties has increased in the last several years (especially in the last 10). For years you could only take one buck (no does) in these counties. Last year the DNR added one doe to the mixture to combat the rising population. However, the overall population is rather low in comparison to other areas of the state. A gun season in these counties would be devastating. In one season you would literally wipe out the big buck population. You would kill what makes these counties special. I would also imagine you would kill alot of the money that comes into the area by out-of-town hunters. There are a lot of people that come into these areas to hunt these big bucks. But the most troubling thing is that the precedent that this will set. What's next? The NRA lobbying Illinois and Ohio to open their gun seasons to rifle hunting instead of shotgun only? Where do you draw the line? |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: madvilledoc ORIGINAL: BowHuntingFool My opinion is the NRA is doing exactly what they should be doing, obtaining mote hunting lands for hunters! More power to them!!!! Sounds to me like some Bowhunters in WV are being a little selfish. jmo! |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
Sounds right down the NRA's alley, especiallygiven the not so kind words that some bowhunters have for their gunhunting brethren.
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
 Interesting . |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
The NRA will create a division among all hunters if they take it upon themselves to become involved with wildlife management. It will only hurt us all in the long run. We(at least in Illinois) already have big problems with some state legislators trying to manage wildlife instead of letting the people who are trained and dedicated in this field. NRA, stick to doing what you do best.....fight for gunowners rights, not to wildlife management!
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
I think you answered your own question! They're trying to obtain more hunting lands for its members that hunt. They are doing the exact same thing the WVBA is trying to do. I don't understand is why can't the guys that hunt with different weapons have a crack at these bucks and does your talking about?? What if these guys own land there and want to hunt they're own land and do so with a gun? Not to sound condescending, but I don't think you really understand the hunting mentality here in WV. The practice of "if its brown, it is down" is what exists in the rest of the state. The only reason that you can find a large number big bucks in West Virginia is because of archery only rule. There is no other place you can go in WV and have a reasonable chance at a big buck. If locals want to gun hunt, there are certainly plenty of areas for them to do so. Land owner rights really don't fly in these areas since most of the huntable lands are owned by private companies (mainly coal mining or timber/land). There are no agriculture areas in these counties. You make it sound as if there are a few bowhunters that want to keep the vast majority of everyone else from hunting these areas with a gun. The exact opposite is true. If it was left entirely up the local residents, we would not have a problem. Most people want to keep it as is. Yes there is a small minority (and I mean small) that want to open a gun season (hence the contacting of the NRA). It would not surprise me one bit if the one who "complained" were not from these counties in the first place. The only way something like this could happen is to get a large outside group involved. They don't have the numbers otherwise. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
This is a very interesting issue. On one hand, I completely understand why you would want it to stay bow only. On the other hand, I can understand why an organization like the NRA would want more hunters to be able to hunt public land. I am sure that there is a way that they could control the hunts there and hopefully keep both sides happy.
Honestly, after just my initial response, I support the NRA in trying to at least look in to the matter by asking its members what they want. What they do next will be a determining factor, though. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: Cougar Mag The NRA will create a division among all hunters if they take it upon themselves to become involved with wildlife management. It will only hurt us all in the long run. We(at least in Illinois) already have big problems with some state legislators trying to manage wildlife instead of letting the people who are trained and dedicated in this field. NRA, stick to doing what you do best.....fight for gunowners rights, not to wildlife management! It seems to me that the WVBA are the ones creating a division in hunters by trying to keep the gun hunters out and keep these counties for themselves??? |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
From the webpage of the NRA-ILA
"While the NRA is a single issue organization [gun rights], the Instituteis involved in any issue that directly or indirectly affects firearms ownership and use. Those involve such topics as hunting and access to hunting lands...." |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
It seems to me that the WVBA are the ones creating a division in hunters by trying to keep the gun hunters out and keep these counties for themselves??? I just think clear, honest thinking should prevail in deciding whats best for game management. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
UR right madville the biggest bucks in the state do come from there. The NRA more concerned about opening lands that are more restricted, its not like hunting is not aloud. I look at alot of the thing the DNR in our beautiful state as some of the dumbest things ever, But there is one thing that they are good at at thats managing a sustainable deer population. I honestly think that more than just those four counties in the state should go to tighter hunting regulations to try and get in some bigger bucks. The doe to buck ratio in most of the state is rediculous. Where im from you can look into fields and see 20 does to one buck. I agree completely with you though.
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: madvilledoc Although not a member of the NRA (why I have no idea), I've always supported what they do. Like most hunters, I am very pro gun. But the recent actions of the NRA in southern West Virginia is leaving me shocked and if I am honest, somewhat angry. In southern West Virginia, there are four counties that have been archery-only for deer since the mid 70's. At the time, the whitetail deer population had nearly been wiped out. Due to the archery only status and a one buck limit, the population has slowly recovered although it is still no where near the population of most counties in West Virginia. Also due to the archery-only status and one-buck limit, the age structure is much higher than what is found elsewhere in the state. In these counties bucks have a great chance to reach their true potential. It is no surprise that 80-90% of the P&Y bucks taken in the state are from these 4 counties. You will find that most hunters in these counties allow small bucks to walk as a rule which is the opposite of what you find elsewhere in the state. Most of the hunters that are from these areas wouldn't trade the situation that is found in these 4 counties for nothing. Why would they? It is a treasure trove of trophy bucks. You can go almost anywhere in this four-county area, put out a little corn and a camera, and have a very good chance to have a P&Y buck appear on camera within a few days. Unfortunately, it seems the setup is not loved by everyone. Evidently a small number of NRA members from this area notified the higher ups in the NRA and complained that they aren't able to gun hunt in these four counties. The NRA responded by sending out a questionnaire to all of their members from these counties to ask their opinion on the matter. I have heard through various sources that the NRA plans to lobby the West Virginia legislature to allow some form of gun season in these counties. The NRA is a powerful lobby group, but I think they are setting a dangerous precedent here. They are getting away from gun rights and toying with game management, which in my opinion they have no business being involved with. The job of game management belongs to the Department of Natural Resourses for each state. Besides it isn't like the state is restricting gun use in these counties. You can still gun hunt small game, coyote, bear, birds, etc. The only species that is archery-only is whitetail. One can only hope that nothing comes from this. I do know that the West Virginia Bowhunters Association is fighting it. But I am from the area and probably biased. What do you guys think? Thoughts? |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: madvilledoc You make it sound as if there are a few bowhunters that want to keep the vast majority of everyone else from hunting these areas with a gun. The exact opposite is true. If it was left entirely up the local residents, we would not have a problem. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
This sounds harsh but i dont think its really a factor of what the people want at all. The regulation of put there for the reason, to boost the deer population, if that goal has been met and the population is now sustainable then it should be taken off and guns should be allowed. If the quota isnt met and the herd still isnt large enough then it should stay bow only. Those variables should be the only thing that decide this!!!!!
ORIGINAL: bigcountry ORIGINAL: madvilledoc You make it sound as if there are a few bowhunters that want to keep the vast majority of everyone else from hunting these areas with a gun. The exact opposite is true. If it was left entirely up the local residents, we would not have a problem. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
mad,
The WVDNR should dictate how many deer are taken each season. I'm glad that the numbers are increasing in that area. BUT... I brought a neighbors son out on his first gun hunt this year. He shot a small 4 point and was so proud of what he did and his "trophy". I brought a l;ot of joy to him, his family and me. Because you have a different idea of what a trophy is you would prevent this from happening in your area? What makes your idea of a trophy right and others wrong? There are those that could give a flip about antlers and hunt for meat. Is that wrong? So now thay have to learn to use a bow? What if they don't like bowhunting? Maybe it's not the place of the NRA to be dictating this but I certainly disagree with you that it should be bowhunting only because you want bigger horns |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
I can definitely understand why some people want to gun hunt there. If they don't bow hunt, that may be the only way they can get a chance at a big buck. Of coarse their chance would only last one year. After that the big bucks will be gone and hunting in those counties will be similar to hunting in the rest of the state except you have a much lower deer population.
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: madvilledoc I can definitely understand why some people want to gun hunt there. If they don't bow hunt, that may be the only way they can get a chance at a big buck. Of coarse their chance would only last one year. After that the big bucks will be gone and hunting in those counties will be similar to hunting in the rest of the state except you have a much lower deer population. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 This sounds harsh but i dont think its really a factor of what the people want at all. The regulation of put there for the reason, to boost the deer population, if that goal has been met and the population is now sustainable then it should be taken off and guns should be allowed. If the quota isnt met and the herd still isnt large enough then it should stay bow only. Those variables should be the only thing that decide this!!!!! ORIGINAL: bigcountry ORIGINAL: madvilledoc You make it sound as if there are a few bowhunters that want to keep the vast majority of everyone else from hunting these areas with a gun. The exact opposite is true. If it was left entirely up the local residents, we would not have a problem. What kind of mindset is this?? If there is a deer population problem there, why is ANYBODY hunting there period?????:eek: |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: BowHuntingFool What kind of mindset is this?? If there is a deer population problem there, why is ANYBODY hunting there period?????:eek: |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: BowHuntingFool ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 This sounds harsh but i dont think its really a factor of what the people want at all. The regulation of put there for the reason, to boost the deer population, if that goal has been met and the population is now sustainable then it should be taken off and guns should be allowed. If the quota isnt met and the herd still isnt large enough then it should stay bow only. Those variables should be the only thing that decide this!!!!! ORIGINAL: bigcountry ORIGINAL: madvilledoc You make it sound as if there are a few bowhunters that want to keep the vast majority of everyone else from hunting these areas with a gun. The exact opposite is true. If it was left entirely up the local residents, we would not have a problem. What kind of mindset is this?? If there is a deer population problem there, why is ANYBODY hunting there period?????:eek: |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 As madville said in his post, the regulation was put in during the seventies when the population was wiped out, like most of the rest of the state in the early last century. The goal was to get a sustainable herd back, and that is a conservation mindset. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
By making bow hunting only it takes off alot of pressure. Go to a game station in WV the first and second day of gun season and see how many deer come in. Then go the first and second day of archery. Ur going to see a huge deficit.
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 By making bow hunting only it takes off alot of pressure. Go to a game station in WV the first and second day of gun season and see how many deer come in. Then go the first and second day of archery. Ur going to see a huge deficit. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: madvilledoc In southern West Virginia, there are four counties that have been archery-only for deer since the mid 70's. Also due to the archery-only status and one-buck limit, the age structure is much higher than what is found elsewhere in the state. In these counties bucks have a great chance to reach their true potential. You can still gun hunt small game, coyote, bear, birds, etc. The only species that is archery-only is whitetail. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: bigcountry ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 By making bow hunting only it takes off alot of pressure. Go to a game station in WV the first and second day of gun season and see how many deer come in. Then go the first and second day of archery. Ur going to see a huge deficit. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 ORIGINAL: bigcountry ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 By making bow hunting only it takes off alot of pressure. Go to a game station in WV the first and second day of gun season and see how many deer come in. Then go the first and second day of archery. Ur going to see a huge deficit. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: early in ORIGINAL: madvilledoc In southern West Virginia, there are four counties that have been archery-only for deer since the mid 70's. Also due to the archery-only status and one-buck limit, the age structure is much higher than what is found elsewhere in the state. In these counties bucks have a great chance to reach their true potential. You can still gun hunt small game, coyote, bear, birds, etc. The only species that is archery-only is whitetail. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 As madville said in his post, the regulation was put in during the seventies when the population was wiped out, like most of the rest of the state in the early last century. The goal was to get a sustainable herd back, and that is a conservation mindset. ORIGINAL: madvilledoc The population of deer in these counties has increased in the last several years (especially in the last 10). For years you could only take one buck (no does) in these counties. Last year the DNR added one doe to the mixture to combat the rising population. However, the overall population is rather low in comparison to other areas of the state. tmontgo1... and he also said this,"adding a Doe to the mixture", why are they adding tags if there is a deer population problem???? |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
[/quote] Again, its such a simple question its sad. I can't believe you can't answer it??? But I don't think you were around when all this went down in the first place so I understand why you wouldn't know.. Ky took a different stance, and stopped all deer hunting. [/quote] Ur right man, i wasnt around when this was set into order, in fact i wasnt even a twinkle in my parents eye. But in WV if they completely shut down hunting in there it would be hell. People in WV dont like things being taken away from them, they were lucky to just get that much regulation on it. |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
ORIGINAL: BowHuntingFool ORIGINAL: tmontgo1 As madville said in his post, the regulation was put in during the seventies when the population was wiped out, like most of the rest of the state in the early last century. The goal was to get a sustainable herd back, and that is a conservation mindset. ORIGINAL: madvilledoc The population of deer in these counties has increased in the last several years (especially in the last 10). For years you could only take one buck (no does) in these counties. Last year the DNR added one doe to the mixture to combat the rising population. However, the overall population is rather low in comparison to other areas of the state. tmontgo1... and he also said this,"adding a Doe to the mixture", why are they adding tags if there is a deer population problem???? |
RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
I live in the middle of Wyoming County, WV which is one of the bow counties and the only kind of hunting I do is bowhunting. Right now the season runs from Oct. 18th - Dec. 31st. You are allowed to kill one buck and one doe, or two does for the entire season. Personally - I wouldn't have a problem with them allowing maybe a two week Muzzleloading season, only in return for a longer bow season. Let's say bow season opens on Sept. 14th - Dec. 31st, with a Muzzleloading season running from Nov. 14th - Nov. 30th. Muzzleloading only though, so you have one shot and done, just like a bow. No unloading allowed! NO RIFLES! If you wanna rifle hunt, go to Raleigh, Mercer, or Monroe counties, which is boardering counties.
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RE: NRA vs West Virginia Bowhunters Rant
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The NRA is a PRO-GUN group, NOT a PRO-HUNTING group.
They spend millions trying to sell themselves as a group that cares about outdoorsmen - in a veiled effort to drum up as much $$$ as possible - but when the rubber meets the road, they'll cutbowhunters' collectivethroats in a heartbeat. They don't care about bows. They don't care about conservation. They don't care about wildlife management. They just want the most liberal gun laws possible. Obviously, there is a direct conflict of interest there. If you think thatthere is some overlap between gun rights and hunting, you're probably right. However, when you really look at things, the two issues aren't nearly as interwoven as one would think. Put it this way: I'm in the woods at least 75 times/year. Of those 75, I have a gun in my hand for a maximum of 8 hunts. Of those times when I DO take a gun out, those weapons are not the type of firearms that the NRAwastes millions of hunter dollars"protecting." I don't hunt with assault weapons and handguns. Toborrow a line frommy buddy-Iwouldn't piss on the NRA ifthe headquarterswas on fire. I mean, I respect what they do. It's just not anything that I care about. It just bothers me when I see fellow hunters being snowed into believing that the NRA is here to save deer season. It's not. |
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