RE: church and hunting
 

I'm gonna share with you guys a little testimony of my own. I found out in 2005 that i had a kidney disease, that was basically shutting down my kidneys, what they call endstage renal failure. So for the past 3 years I have been on medication trying to keep them going, just this past month i had taken a turn for the worse and am going to need a kidney transplant. Keep in mind i was saved when i was a teenager ( thats another testimony in its own:) so i had that relationship with jesus. about a month ago my family and myself went in front of the church to ask for prayer and to see if anyone was willing to get tested to be a potential living donor. So one of the first guys stood up and said I'll do it, I have known this man for many years, he's one of our deacons at the church. He went and got tested, along with others, including my mom and brother. I found out 3 days ago that my deacon was a match, they told me that it was almost as if he was my long lost brother! My own brother was not a match, and my mom was not a match. we had only been looking for a donor for a month, and the man that is the deacon at my church, a long time friend, and a brother in christ.....is going to be my kidney donor. So about a month earlier i was listening to a sermon about "how do you know if you're really saved" (did i really accept jesus into my heart? or was i just going through the motions) I had pondered on this for a while, but that day, when i got the news that a donor had been found, and it was a man that i had known for years, a deacon at my church and a brother in christ....i knew immediately that I was in Jesus' hands, there was already a plan, gods plan for my life. Some people are on the donor list waiting for years for a cadaver donor, a living donor...or even finding that perfect match, and i had only been waiting a month. I pray that everyone would come to know the christ I know.

I may not goto church every sunday, but i do have my time with the lord.

RE: church and hunting
 

Well, I guess a person has a choice. I don't understand the choice, just thankful for the one I took. I sometimes read through Judges and hear Samson and his story, or read about Lot and how his daughtersslept with him to keep their line. And I look up and beg for God to help me to understand. One can read the Word of God and believe or he can reject. I highly suggest all on this page reads it, and believe it, or reject it.

But the bottom line is, I cannot reject God. I have tried. He talked to me, he saved me. Christianity didn't suit me at all.

I studied nordic paganism, and all kinds of garbage over the years. What was not to love about nordic mythology? You live your life for revenge, you take what you want, you live life hard and fast, and when you die, you go to Valhalla, and hunt a pig every night, roast it, have sex, drink and feast hard, and wake up the next day and do it again. Now that suited me. But I found it to be a fairy tale.

But I cannot and will not reject God. It doesn't suit me, but it feels real. Christianity is a religion of pure faith in things you cannot see.

RE: church and hunting
 

A person can go to church thier whole life and not have salvation. Going to masses won't save you.

minn, you said something that was wrong. It was pointed out and showed to you it was wrong. Really nothing more to say.

RE: church and hunting
 

That is a harsh comment. Ignorant might be another way to describe it. How can you say why someone doesn't choose to believe? Hardness of hearts or want to be their own god? I have to admit, PT, I am a little surprised at how you've handled this discussion. I would think insulting others is no way to convert them into believers. It always amazes me that some "believers" will look down their nose at "nonbelievers".

RE: church and hunting
 

I don't see it as looking down on nonbelievers, but I think he is taking scripture. The Bible refers to the hardness of thier hearts keeps them from believing.

RE: church and hunting
 

That is the reason I feel most have a hard time believing. You are asking them to believe in something that has no facts or proof. It is tough to get someone to have blind faith in anything, especially something you can't prove.

RE: church and hunting
 

No doubt. But God has the right to choose who to reveal what to who. I sure don't deserve his grace or love. But he gave it to me.

Curiosity is a good thing. Maybe its a step he's guiding you in.

RE: church and hunting
 

I didn't mean PT's comments specifically, just my past experiences. I should have put a space before that sentence.

It's hard for a "nonbeliever" to believe in a book written a very long time ago with no proof to back it up. It's hard to understand why someone should live their life based on this book.

I spend 18 years in a catholic church and 10 years in a catholic school before I started asking questions. I had never questioned my relligion or faith until things stopped making sense to me. I asked questions that I wasn't supposed to ask or questions that could not be answered logically. I have read the bible multiple times. I choose not to believe based on experience. I don't understand why others can't except that. I have nothing against those that believe if they are respectful. I don't like when believers feel they are better than nonbelievers or thatnonbelievers need to be"saved".

RE: church and hunting
 

My church has a service on Wednesday nights. That's the service I go to during hunting season.

Darrall

RE: church and hunting
 

While I agree with some of what you said, it's certainly not fair to sterotype all Christians this way. I mean come on,"these people are ALL involved in affairs..... weigh 300#," that's ridiculous! I think it's really sad that you find it necessaryto attack others in order to justify yourself.

If you don't want to go to church, then don't go, but not all Christians are as you say. I've been aChristian for over 19 years, and while I admit that I'm not perfect,I'm nothaving an affair on my wife either, and at 6 foot 2, I weigh slightly over 200lbs. LOL. I do realize that in all walks of life, there are hypocrites, but using them as a crutch won't get you anywhere.

Personally, I do agree with you that going to church does not give you a relationship with God, and one's relationship with him is personal, butone's relationship with God - or lack there of - should not be measured by another personsweakness.

Luke 16:15Jesussaid to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of men, but God knows your hearts. What is highly valued among men is detestable in God's sight.

RE: church and hunting
 

Question

What happened to the "early" people? There were the native indians, tribes in Africa, people all over the world that never got the word. Never heard of or read the bible.

What happened to them? Are they all in hell? Are they in Heaven? Some one some the other?

Of course i don't know that answer and I imagine no one on here could know either. However, the question still stands. What happened to those people and why do you think that way?

RE: church and hunting
 

We don't know. We are not told. Who knows, maybe they had thier own covenant.

But the bottom line is, I can't imagine that keeping me from believing in Jesus Christ.

RE: church and hunting
 

BC,
The question not being answered has nothing to do with me believing in Jesus Christ. It is just something i have wondered and have asked in church. People give many different answers and i was wondering how some of us would answer that question.

RE: church and hunting
 

Looks like I'm hell-bound for sure, not that I'm surprised by this. I am a "non-believer." This entire thread is why religion does not appeal to me. All you religious folks can sit there and easily criticize someone else for not doing what you do. Why is your way right and mine wrong? I don't believe in a book of fables written by man. Do you really think a senior citizen built a boat and saved the animals? Everything that is written is written by man, humans, and been interpreted countless times. How can it still be true? If you hear a story from someone that starts "My friend's brother's cousin's nephew..."you are immediately skeptical, but with the sotry of christianity, it is followed like the most obvious truth ever.

I could honestly care less what the responses to this are going to be. If you want to claim to know what kind of person I am because I don't go to church, then so be it, but think about who the ignorant one really is. When you all meet someone for the first time, is the first question you ask based on religion, and then all other actions/thoughts are based from there? Sure as hell seems to be in this discussion.

At its most basic level, this conversation is no different than Hoyt v Mathews v Bowtech. Mine is the best, and don't tell me any different.

RE: church and hunting
 

But for you it might not, but there's 10 people to your one that has problem with this. They just can't believe something they don't understand.

But in the same sense, they don't understand the universe. How it was made. They don't understand the extents of space. How the earth wa formed. And if they come up with a theory how it was formed, what was before. When time began. What is time.

You get the gist of what I am saying.

RE: church and hunting
 

Well Mike, seems like you just lump all people that believe in religion together. You assume or at least make reference that "all you religious folks can sit there and easily critisize someone for not doing what you do". I certainly have not done that.

All you hunters are just brown and down types
All you hunters are just fling and arrow and see where it lands types
All you hunters are just pick up the bow day 1 of the season and bring it in the woods without sighting it in types.

Mike, I must be describing you above because you sir are a hunter.

RE: church and hunting
 

Danny, the people posting in this thread are lumping everyone who has not "accepted his word" into the same category. It is a FAR broader statement than "what is a hunter." Nice try though...

RE: church and hunting
 

Mike,
Accept god or don't. It is you who have to decide. Ihave not or will not judge your decision.
But you are certainly painting all believers with one broad stroke. As can happen to you and i as hunters by those who do not believe

RE: church and hunting
 

Actually, we know the Bible is one of the most if not the most historically correct books written ever. Homers Illiad is about the only thing that comes close. The book was wrote over several continents, without a printing press, by people who didn't speak much. And still when they put together all the material they have found and even from the Dead Sea Scrolls to papyrus found in Ethiopia, to manuscript found in Turkey, they line up more closely than any other book for its age.

Only thing we really don't know about is the end of the book of Mark and thats only like 3-4 verses.

RE: church and hunting
 

Actually there is quite a bit of "proof" that things in the bible actually happened. There is an Archeologist that has found many things that prove the stories in the bible. Look around the internet. But when you do keep an open mind. It is easy to believe the bible isn't true. Because we are spoon fed things that are not true that scientist take as truths. The big bang theory and evolution are two that come to mind. My children get spoon fed this at school as did I and I am sure you did too. We believe that things are billions and billions of years old because of things like carbon dating. These tests are now being proven to be incorrect. Yet science seems to bury these things so that we will disregard anything the bible says.

Many historians confirm that Jesus lived and that these things happened. Unfortunately there is a number of people that have set out to make it seem this isn't real or that everything in the bible is just made up stories. Do some research on the stories of the bible. Look up places and such that these stories happened. Look for archeological information on them. Do all of this with an open mind and see if you don't begin to believe.

Human beings have a weakness called pride. We pride our selves on being the most intelligent beings on this earth. We run the place. No other species has the intelligence to build and survive and learn the way we do. So it is a very hard thing for people to believe that their brain cannot comprehend what and why GOD does things. Look around with an open mind and remember you don't even understand everything in your daily lives...not to the degree you think you do. Then open the bible and read it and reference other non religious information. See what happens.

I cannot make you believe. I cannot convince you that you have a problem with pride. I cannot say if you will go to heaven or hell. You have to come to those things yourself, to know them in your heart.


The bible says that to get to heaven you have to accept Christ. It also say something about you being responsible for the things you have been told. I don't know the exact wording but it seems to me that if you lived in some 3rd world country and somehow never heard about Jesus that you are not responsible for that and will be judged by him accordingly. However, I believe most people have heard it and have either chosen to ignore it or have accepted it.
As for the church issue. I believe we are called to attend church. If you miss your not going to Hell. But to make the effort shows you are willing to do whatever he wants you to do. We are called to spread the word. That is our job as Believers in Jesus. Sure churches aren't perfect. Your supposed to take what a preacher says and study it. See if you come to the same conclusions and if not start asking him questions. The more time you study (open minded) the more understanding God will give you.

I don't make every church service. I try to make most Sunday evening services.
I look at church like this. Christians are supposed to be a light to the world. I've heard of us being described like a rechargeable flashlight. After a while you need a charge up. That’s where the church service is supposed to come it. Unfortunately, sometimes that can get forgotten when you go to church for the wrong reasons. Reasons like seeing what other people are doing and gossip etc. These things have brought many people down. Worrying about what others think about you also will tear you down. Forget what others think and study.

When people get saved they change and are a new person. But that does not mean that things that are sins will all stop overnight. God understands and want to help you change. And HE will show you what you need to change and when. People telling you to change, even if they are trying to help, shouldn't be your only motivation. That being said if you know it is wrong and you do it anyway it is a sin. The point is we are sinners and God works on us trying to help us be more like him. It takes time. Seek him and he'll help. Study the bible and he'll make it clear to you. Keep and open mind and an open heart and Jesus will show you the way.


Wow I got a bit long winded. I love being in the woods and I do feel closer to him when I am. But that should not be the only time you go to him in prayer. We are told by the bible to worship him. Praise him for everything he's done for you. I cannot do that in the woods alone. I have to do that with my entire life. The way I present myself to others. And yes giving up some hunting (or goofing off time) to make myself get to church. All of thatand it isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to what he has done for me.

God Bless all of you.
Jason

RE: church and hunting
 

If you're hell-bound, then it's by your own choosing, but as a Christian I would never dream of telling you that is where you're going. Sounds like you may have a great deal of contempt for religion or perhaps Christians in general. While I am certain that I will not change your mind with this post, I can tell you the Bible is not fables written by men.

Think about it, the Bible is made up of an account of God's dealings with the world, creation, the fall, and His plan for our redemption. How could a book written by so many different men, over a period of 1600 yearshave such a unified message. Over 67 books, by 40 different authors, yet ONE central theme: God's PLAN of salvation.

It's hard to get people to agree on anything these days, yet you believe 40 men over 1600 years agreed to write a book containing things thatno human could ever come with, all in order to trick the world into believing fables?

The truth isthat thestory of the floodyou mentioned isnot all that far fetched.Many scientist believe that a flood occured, and cultures such as China that have over 5,000 years historyeven account for this.

People will always dissapoint you, but Jesus came that you might have life, and have it more abundantly! I encourage you to seriously search out what Christ did for you, instead of focusing on the dissapointments you may have withman's religion.

If Christ is real, he will reveal himself to you!

RE: church and hunting
 

Hey michbowhunter....

If you're gonna quote me....then rake me over the coals for what I said......STOP ADDING WORDS INYO THE QUOTES!

YOU added the "all". My quote never had that word in there.

RE: church and hunting
 

I really do not think people are damed because there over weight surely you do not aswell. now people cheating on there wifes or husbands is another story but it is not my place to judge weather someone will go to hell or not

RE: church and hunting
 

Bigtim.....

No I don't think large people are damned. You missed my point.

I think it's HIGHLY hypocritical to preach to someone about their misgivings and where they fall short ......if you're obviously guilty of gluttony, yourself.

We can't pick and choose which sins are "worse". Kills me to see some onthe far right bash homosexuals then come to find they were committing adultery with their secretaries (as AN example).

RE: church and hunting
 

i think u guys have exhausted this thread so maybe u should let it drop because it doesnt seem to be going anywhere and it also seems to be making enemies........not friends:D

RE: church and hunting
 

If I misquoted you, then I apologize, and let me just say that my intention was not to "rake you overthe coals." As I said, I agree with some of what you wrote, but certainly your remark "these people" are involved in affairs, weigh 300# does give the impression that you believe all Christians are this way, and this is absolutely not true.

Even if it were true, what difference does it make. It's not likewhen you stand before God on judgement day he's going to give you a free pass because someone at church weighs more than you?

RE: church and hunting
 

You obviously didn't read my explanation to Bigtim, either. I never think nor thought what you think I do/did. I'm speaking of hypocrits. Period.

RE: church and hunting
 

People use "hypocrites" as an excuse for not going to church or living right all the time, and I think it's nothing more than a cop out. Of course, you're right, there aremany hypocrites in the church, but it's not going tokeep me from going. God will sort 'em out in the end.

But like I said, I apologize for misquoting you. Let's just chalk it up as a misunderstanding.

Peace!

RE: church and hunting
 

the bible says not to lay with a man as you lay with a woman. I agree some go after others forsomething when there just as bad. But over eatting in no where near being gay.

RE: church and hunting
 

If overeating is akin to being gay...then I'm flaming!

RE: church and hunting
 

That is a sad statement. If you look at reality and not what an old book says, over eating can be harmful to you and others. For example, over eatingcan lead to manyhealth problems for yourself. Many children of unhealthly parents also have a unhealthy diet which cause them to be unhealthy. I think it's fair to consider that a form of child abuse. How is being gay harmful to anyone? Sure you can bring up STDs but has more to do with irresponsibility than it does being gay.

One of my biggest hang-ups with the bible is it seems to force people to judge others. One thing I can agree with from the bible is let he who is without sin cast the first stone. But then again, I don't consider homosexuality a "sin".

RE: church and hunting
 

double post

RE: church and hunting
 

Well said Vito.

RE: church and hunting
 

I only read the initial post and last 2 pages...but let me tell you I am REAL glad I stayed outta this one.:eek:

RE: church and hunting
 

As always its the same story. Its not about being gay, overeating, adultery, lying, etc. Its about ones heart. God desires your heart. As Matthew 22:37-40 says

Jesus said to him, you shall love your God with all your heart, soul and mind, this is the first and greatcommandment, the second is like it, you are to love your nieghbor as yourself. On these two commandments, hang all the law and the prophrets.

What I hear Jesus Christ saying is, salvation is only about ones heart. If one truely believes in the name of Jesus Christ, he will desire to follow his commands. He will desire moderation in all things. He will desire sexual purity. He will desire to love his neighbor as himself. Now, have I arrived?? No way. Do I try everyday? You bet ya. Do I fail everyday? You bet ya. But I believe in the blood of Jesus Christ to cover my sins.

I struggle with lust for women. I pray about it, and sometimes I suceed and sometimes I fail.Some times I end up talking to a womens chest more than her face. But I desire to put away that sexual immorality. And pray about it everyday.

People try to put "sin" value on sin. It can't be done. As it says in Matthew, calling one a fool could be an offense that will send you to hell. Its only about one's heart. Jesus Christ our God either has our heart or he doesn't. We do not live under the law unless we are Jew, and the law put value on certain sins. With Christ, its about faith only. If we lived under the law, we better start sacraficing a few thousand bulls. And guess what, we don't get to participate in the eating of those ribeyes either.

RE: church and hunting
 

Awwww Ryan, you missed the best posts!!!;)

RE: church and hunting
 

So you say you do not believe the current torah or just about any English translation bible. Or Greek or Aramaic while we are at it?

Or do you just pick out the pieces you like?

My thought process is, if I don't believe in the Bible and Jesus Christ commands, I should be fishing Sunday morning. Or jamming out to the radio besides praying every morning.

RE: church and hunting
 

The Bible doesn't force anyone to "judge others." Quite the contrary, the Bible says, "Do not judge others!!" People (not the Bible) choose to judge or not to judge!

RE: church and hunting
 

I believe its one of the most misquoted piece of scripture out there. An overseeer, elder, or bishop as its called in the new testiment calls for them to oversee the flock of God as in 1 Peter 2:2-4

Its just one has to be careful that he is seeing clearly before he does approach a brother in Christ about a sinful behavior.

RE: church and hunting
 

I don't believe or live my life by any of it anymore. People picking and choosing which parts they live their life by is one of the hypocricies that drove me away from it.