RE: church and hunting
 

there is only ONE way, Jeff ....GOD'S way ....

as far as those that were killed ....just an FYI ...true believers were killed in those crusades ...... that was led by satan ....not true believers ...

RE: church and hunting
 

Man it really makes me sad when I hear someone say that they don't believe inGod or when they describe a time when someone has looked down their nose at them and said something like, "You must be baptized to get to heaven" or "You better be in church on Sunday or you're headed to Hell" or "All alcoholics go to Hell" or my favorite of all, "Liberals can't be Christians."

Lots of folks out there have been hurt by the words of other people, judgements passed, and measurements made of them and it has usually been done by someone close to them or by another church member. This is the sad part because after being hurt, these people develope their image of God by what they have heard and they end up thinking, "Well, I'm a drinker, a cusser, I don't go to church, and so on. I guess God really doesn't love me." People get off the bus here believing these lies and they never get to the point to discover the truth. The Truth is that God/Jesus never said you better be in church every Sunday. He said, "Do not forsake the assembly of believers." He stopped there and did not make it a weekly mandate. Jesus never said, "Don't drink beer." He said, "Come as you are." Jesus began his ministry in this world in the nastiest parts of town with the dredges of society. He could care less about what you look like or what you have done. One thing about God is that He forgets every bit of what you have done after you accept forgiveness for your previous life. The recurring themes in the Bibleare: Love and Forgiveness. These are two principles that are often times lost these days when people get into discussions of law and what you "have to do" to be a Christian.

RE: church and hunting
 

Is Church a good thing? Yes.

Do you have to go to get to heaven? No.

RE: church and hunting
 

noone said you did ...... but it shows your priorities .....

RE: church and hunting
 

im going to disect and explainthe fault in this statement
of course im not speaking for all christians primarily catholics because im a catholic
you dont have to be baptised in a church to be saved which is refered to as baptism of water. there are other ways of being saved there is also baptism of desire whish is merely a person who loves God above all things and is doing what they believ is right and wat God wants them to do. also there is baptism of blood this when a person dies for a nobel cause or for a freind or soemthing of that nature. you see you dotn have to be an officially baptised in a church to make it to heaven if you believe that your way is the way that christ wants you to live then go ahead a do it but wa im trying to say is as a catholic and as most all catholic christians believe you dotn have to bebaptised in a church to be saved so dont think that we are judging you and thing that people like you are going to go to hell because you werent baptised in a church

RE: church and hunting
 

Not "my way", HIS way, clearly explained in the bible. Its not about "us". Its about HIM. Thats what so many dont get. You either have a true relationship with the Lord or you dont. Its really quite simple. There is no "better". Understand???

RE: church and hunting
 

So let's say Jeff(for the sake of argument;)) doesnt go to church regulary. But sits down and prays with his family. Thats "church" right?

For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

RE: church and hunting
 

From the middle of October thru mid December, I'm use to hunt every chance I got. I coached basketball and soccer for 20 years, gave up hunting time on Saturdays and Sundays, to coach rec leagues and CYO teams. Finally, four years ago, I took up bowhunting and instead of just missing Sunday mornings, I would miss Sundays all together, including October. My priest would want all coaches to attend mass and I would try to oblige, just not all the time or I would go to six o'clock mass if I got back in time.He would notice and say "I didn't see you at the CYO mass at 9:00 for a few months. Anything wrong ?" I told him I hunted and I'm not giving up on the girls teams or God, just finding time to fit in both.Last year I gave it all up and now my time is my own. I brought up six kids, sent them all to Catholic school, brought them up the right way, and now, I head up to the woods every saturday to sunday night and miss Church during that time. I say the rosary while I'm in the woods, but that's just to save a few souls, and maybe ask for a little help from above. During Lent, I go to mass every day to try to make up for it, call me a hypocrite or whatever, but I hope I'll be judged by what I've done, what I'm doing, and what I believe, and not where I am.

RE: church and hunting
 

First of all, Jeff needed to repent of his good works to get to Heaven and put His faith in the finished work of The Lord Jesus Christ ...in other words ...become born again ....born of the Spirit ....... then he has God dwelling in him .... I have never asked him if he has done that, so I make no assumptions to that end .....

if THAT has been done, it is still not "church" .... church is made up of Elders and Deacons and other folks that believe ....... praying with the family is just as important ... and precious ... it's just NOT church

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Fletch I understand I don't need you or anyone else to approve or disapprove of MY relationship. I don't need your rubber stamp of approval, either.

Maybe it's YOU who doesn't understand MY relationship? That scares a lot of people.....not knowing. I'm fine with it, though.;)

I don't want to get off on too much of a tangent, PT....but you and I have discussed this before. 3/4 of the people in God's world (Earth)will never even be introduced to Christianity. I have a hard time believing that the God I worship would condemn 3/4 of the population of the world to Hell because they never had anyone show them "the way". It's the divine. sanctimoniuos opinion of many Christians that this is, in fact, "reality". It's the ultimate game of divisiveness that I won't play.

If bad people can go to Heaven...."I" believe that good people can go to Heaven. I won't get into what the "good" people have to do to pass God's Lithmus test. You'll claim it isn't up for interpretation. I contend there's a LOT of the Bible up for interpretation. We have a difference of opinion. I can live with that, just fine. I don't worry about me.....and I certainly don't worry about how I assemble with God. If we assemble with me 23' closer to him.....who's to say we're not in Church?

We see it ALL the time.....people intimidated by things they either refuse to or cannot comprehend. Gay-bashing.....racism.....religion. Just because the "other guy" isn't doing it the way you think God wants him to.......it doesn't mean he isn't doing it in a manner acceptable (or heck....even preferred) by God. I'm not speaking to you directly, Tony. I trust you know that.

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That is weak, Jeff ... NOONE said that!!!!! You running with Obonga??

You can't just take PART of God's Word ... read it all ..... interpretation is irrelevant if you just take what YOU like and discard the rest .... that's what cults do ....

God would have you to obey Him ... not you ......

done..... I love ya, Bro ....enough to tell you the truth .....

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I'm not the only one picking and choosing, here, PT.;) God said what I said to me and all. Did he mis-speak? Is the only way thorugh him, or not? If I accept him as my saviour.....will he not accept me into his house of many mansions?

I'm not trying to say that entrance into Heaven is a forgeone conclusion when one accepts Jesus as their saviour. I'm saying God said it was, though.

You (and many others) seem to want to raise the bar whenever someone clears it. What's ever "good enough"? God told me accepting him was my ticket. I believe(d) him. I'm gonna run with it.

I thought you said it was where people assemble to worship him??? Now are you interpreting it differently? Or....raising that bar?

RE: church and hunting
 

I've got a big bunchjerky going right now, so you knowtomorrow will be a better day. And unlike religion everyone loves jerky.

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see the bold, Jeff ... I see you as doing just that ...... your words fit what I believe ALL non believers do ...

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Fellas think about what he did for you, and now think about how easy it is to go to church. Grace is a hard concept for many to understand, check it out its what christianity is all about. I agree you dont have to go to church to be a christian, but i cant reason with myself to find something more important.

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So now I'm associated with "all non-believers"? I don't think he'd be proud of you interpreting our relationship, Tony. Mybe not understanding it would suffice....but judging it .....I don't think he'd be high on.

There are many religious sects that have differing views of what it takes to enter God's kingdom. Do you feel the same towards other Christians....even though they worship the same God you worship?

Tony....why is it "I" who is not comprehending?

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Tony knows the Lord and there is NO DOUBT in my mind that what he speaks is true. NO DOUBT. I used to think like some of you on here. It took alow point in my life for me to swallow my pride, get down on my knees, and ask Jesus to come into my heart and take over my life this last Aug. I thought the worse thing had happened in my life, until God's grace showed me it was the best time in my life once I accepted him and turned my life over to him. He transformed my thoughts and actions. I used to not understand what people meant when they referred to born again. You are truly a new person. The old is discarded and you have become a new person, cause Jesus lives in your heart. It cahnges you immediately.

RE: church and hunting
 

Your last statement is music to my ears Bro .... I rest on that TOTALLY :)

see above:)

I thought you said it was where people assemble to worship him??? Now are you interpreting it differently? Or....raising that bar?
[/quote]

please go back and read definition of a church

RE: church and hunting
 

My original post merely pointed out that to say "I" dont need to go to church... is a cop-out. (to me). YOU jumped on it like a cat on a mouse. So whose approval were you looking for?;) I hope not mine. Not sure why you wouldthink it necessaryto even bring it up. Its not about my approval or anyone else here. You better look far beyond anyone here. There's only one rubber stamp you need and I couldnt care less how you get it. Thats up to you. But it doesnt come without effort, that much I fully understand and the directions are clear. I wish you a successful journey in faith.

RE: church and hunting
 

Good post guys. Its good to see people speaking of god in a public forum anymore at all. They want to take him out of our Pledge and off our money whats next?. My wife and I have been working on getting back into a church we can both be happy with. We were raised in about as differant typre churches as you can be. I was raised Church of Christ she as a penticostal.. Far stretch between those 2. But we both believe in and love god. We have been working on finding a church for a while now. We want to give our kids every chance to know god and help them with the decisions on how to live their lives.. We started going to an AOG church and like parts of it others differs from my beliefs.. So I ask you all this. Is it better to stay away completly from church or better to take from it what you can ? The bible clearly states certain things that you can find something wrong with any church if you look .. All of them seem to have their own beliefs on what one bible says.. So I say if you are closer to God in the woods then man pray away.. Who am I or anyone else to say you are wrong? I know myself I feel closer out there than in a church I dont fully agree with.. But I do agree we should get together with other people to worship god and have fellowship. Just read the bible and follow your beliefs and stay within the guidlines you should be fine.. Just my 2 cents

RE: church and hunting
 

i am currently enrolled in a christian college and taking a Inductive Bible study class. and this is what is called taking the scriptures out of CONTEXT. the context this it was written in is dealing with confrontation. "two or three are gathered together in my name"

as far as your statement yes God is there but it doesnt take the place of meeting with believers. some people are afraid of churches and thats where small groups come into play. meeting with groups in addition or alone would constitute and gathering

RE: church and hunting
 

payton....

ALL I need to hear to make me smile is that someone says they're "a believer".Religious sect notwithstanding. I've been to more denominational services than I can count. I was raised in the Quaker (Friends) Church......attendedChurch in a Church of Christ, through HS......attended a Southern Babtist College (Wingate) and have worhsipped with manyothers since then, both as a single man and with my wife.

What transpires betweenChristiansand God is THEIRS. Period. It's not for me to interpret or judge.

Hope to see you "there".

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Jeff ... I NEVER said you were a non-believer[:@]

and those who do not accept CHrist alone as the way to Salvation ..... if they die without Him, they can't get it ...... not all that name the name of Christ will enter in ... Jesus' words, not mine ..... Jesus also said, many will came to me in that day and say have I not done this in your name or that in your name and done many marvelous works in your name, and I will say, "Depart from me, for I NEVER knew you!"

RE: church and hunting
 

He "knew" them when he created them.....and "knew" they would never hear of his glory......and yet he is still in the position of denying them entry into his kingdom?

Where's the comapssion, there? I think he's a comapssionate God.

So 3/4 of God's creatures (humans) on Earth will never enter his kingdom....and he knows and is OK with that? Or.....go a bit further.....were they ever his creatures, really? Are only Christians?

Dang, PT....you and I need to talk! I love you man.;)

Call me one evening......or tell me when to call you. I love talking to you (we've done so int he past).....and I look forward to it. Your invitation is still open here (and you knew that)....and we'd love to host you.

You and I can hold assembly in my woods/ChurchANY time.;)

p.s. Tony.....

I'm a better man having befriended you. I don't know that I've ever said that to anyone other than my family. Our discussions are close to me.

RE: church and hunting
 

we had a similar discussion about this the other day at the small group i lead. About how some people may never have a missionary come preach to them, but it doesnt mean that God does not show them His glory.

As far as going to church....thats not whats going to save you, but it is called for to meet with a body of believers

RE: church and hunting
 

I'm a rationalizing person, and I've rationalized skipping church for a day in God's GREAT CREATION, and though I know it may be frowned upon, I've done it with HIM on my mind and I truly feel closer to him in the woods than I do in an uncomfortable pew trying to sing songs I've never heard and am butchering more than 100 head of cattle in a slaughterhouse. That said, I hunted for a little bit Sunday morning, then made it back to the house to get dressed in "nice clothes" to go to church with the wife and kids.

RE: church and hunting
 

According to allot of you I guess I'm one bad ass that doesn't believe In god because I choose not to go to church all that often! I've heard It all. My pastor where I was confirmed and baptized at told me this after I was confirmed.

"Steve, I don't expect to see you around much here In church on Sundays. Just remember you don't have to be In church all the time to still keep a relationship with god. You can still have a great relationship with god just because your not In church, don't ever forget that he said"!

About 4 months ago I had my daughter baptized at the same church I got baptized at. The 1st thing he said to me was, hey there Steve! Long time no see! How you been? I said I've been great, getting ready for bear hunting In September. I then said to him, I hope your not upset that you don't see me around to often. He then said "Steve, we both worship the same god, your house of worship Is In a woods hunting, mine Is In a church. As long as you keep believing and give thanks all Is fine". I then told him as my little girl gets older and starts attending Sunday School you will see me around more watching my little girl In programs and such.

RE: church and hunting
 

Good post, its too bad more people and preacher's alike don't have this attitude

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I appreciate your kind words, Jeff ....I am curious where you get your stats about 3/4 of the world not heariing about Christ?

RE: church and hunting
 

As a Catholic trapped in a Lutheran congregation, I still go to the Lutheran church with my family almost every Sunday.I miss maybe one or two days during hunting and that's gun season if I'm out bowhunting when the deer are moving into my sanctuary areas per the heavy pressure. Last year, I actually skipped skipping my one Sunday since our family was supposed to sponsor my wife's good friend's family joining that Sunday. As we left for church that day, I saw several bucks and does stream by my stand not 20 yards out. I was irritated. When I got to church and learned the dad/father in the family we were sponsoring was not there because he was hunting, I just about lost it. My wife was holding my arm tightly because she could tell the level of anger that was rising from within. It's funny now but it wasnt at the time and I'll never skip skipping again in that situation. That said, that is the exception, one, maybe two Sundays a year because of hunting. And since I'm Catholic, I can always make up for it on a weekday morning service. : )

P.S. I subscribe to the theory that one of my high school teachers - a priest at a catholic school - taught me. God doesn't care if you're in church every Sunday morning blindly reciting word from a book. He cares about how you live your life and how you treat and help others. Do those things correctly and there will be a place in heaven for you. Even if you don't believe in God. Then he told me to pretty much never tie his name to those comments or he'd lose his job. :D

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I'm not going to argue to finer points of religion b/c I've got enough skeletons in my own closet. BUT, giving up something we LOVE to do in order to worship God is important. It shows that HE is most important in our life, not our hobbies.

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That was good, specially the last part.:D A very good post minnesota.

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Tony....

1/5 of the world's population is in China. Another large segment resides in Muslim nations.

Like I said....I went to Wingate College....where I was forced (not kicking and screaming, mind you) to take a religion class every semester. Those stats are from...ummm (shhh....over 20 yrs ago). If they're not valid, now....I apologize. They were also given to me in a Southern Babtist school....where they wouldn't get caught dead boinking standing up.....for fear someone might mistaken it for dancing. So....I tended to believe them.

Even if they are "off".....the gist of my meaning is clear. MANY will never even hear of Christianity.....and listening to some....they are doomed. God created them in his image for that?

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That my friend is a great post.

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I still go the majority of the time but I do miss a few Sundays during the 5 month long season.

RE: church and hunting
 

Schultzy ..... if God says in His Word that you should NOT forsake Church, and says in another place to someone, "Why call me Lord and you don't do what I say?" ....... what say ye?

Schultzy, you are one of my favorite guys on here ... your passion for hunting and life is awesome ...... how much do you give to the Lord? I don't know, but you and Him do .......

RE: church and hunting
 

Separation of church and hunting.

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Thanks and agreed - good post Schultzy. I like our pastor and he is a really good guy. But sometimes he doesn't have a lot of tact, like in the monthly newsletter, when in his letter to the congregation, he calls out people who bring their kids to Sunday School but don't attend church with them before or afterward, whenever it occurrs that Sunday. He calls them out in front of the whole congregation - not my name mind you - but by chastizing that particular subgroup. That my friend, makes me want to go to church less, not more. And I pretty much lost all respect for the guy for a couple of months until I simmered down.

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that Subscription is invalid and will send you strait to Hell...salvation is about what CHrist did on the Cross of Calvary ....becoming our sin and paying the penalty, rising 3 days later victorious over death, hell and the grave....... you choose to believe man, i'll take God ...

RE: church and hunting
 

I also know that Christ never SPECIFICALLY mentioned a Hell, just heaven. Hell is a concept created by man and various religious leaders according to numerous scholarly works that will no doubt be debated byreligious authorities.The God I believe in will not send a person who lives a good life, treats others well, but does not believe in him to eternal suffering. Perhaps they will not be saved, but they will not suffer either.