RE: church and hunting
 

Growing up a Catholic, has actually seperated me from God. I've been going to a Catholic school since Kindergarten, and went to church 2 times a week at school, and every Sunday. I did that from Kindergarten, to 8th grade. As I grew older, and actually started thinking about things, I realized how crooked the Catholic church really is. In my experiences (been to quite a few churches around the area) most of them try to bring you back ONLY for your money. Nothing else. The last couple of years, since I started watching the news just about every night, I've seen just about all of the public scandals in the Catholic church. Just about every night it's something new. Yet I don't think I've EVER seen a scandal on the news from someone besides Catholics. I'm not saying they don't happen, but they seem much more common among Catholics.
I haven't been to church in about 2 years (excluding Christmas and Easter). And I can honestly say that I feel much closer to God now, than I did then. I pray much more, and actually think about it and mean it.

Also, who are we to judge one another?
;)

Just my 2 cents.


Sorry I can't really go into detail in this post right now, I'm in class[:'(]

RE: church and hunting
 

you show your ignorance .....

Jesus mentions Hell WAYYYYYYYYY more than Heaven

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mat 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Luk 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Luk 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

RE: church and hunting
 

I'm with PT all the way on this one.
There is ONLY ONE WAY...through Christ (and ASKING HIM - not just knowing about HIM). And yes, unfortunately there will be alot of folks that won't make it to heaven - be it they didn't ever ask Christ to be their saviour, or they were never told about him at all. That's why he commands us to spread the Gospel.

I think what gets lost alot is its not "religion" - its relationship. Just because you go to church DOESN'T mean you are headed to heaven. If you never asked HIM....you ain't going. You've got about as much chance of turning into a car by standing in a garage.

The bible says it all - either you believe it 100%, or you don't. We don't get to pick and choose what we want to believe - so it makes us feel good and justify what we do (to ourselves & others). The grocery store method doesn't work.

Now...does that mean that true believers are perfect? Ain't NO WAY....not even close. I screw up daily, as I'm sure most of you do too. Do I go to church EVERY Sunday....no. Most Sundays I do, and it is a high priority for me and my family. Do I follow everything in the bible to a T? I wish I could say I do. I try to do my best to adhere to HIS WORD....but alas, I am a human still - which means I can't.

Seek ye first the kindom ofheaven....I hope each of you do. In theBIG picture, that is ALL that really matters.

-Mike

RE: church and hunting
 

Someone please help me if I'm misunderstanding...if someone never knows of god because they were never told of him, they are not going to heaven? How is this their fault? Shouldn't it be part of god's plan for them to know him? Please don't criticize me, I'm just trying to understand.

RE: church and hunting
 

That's waaay off. Luke 16 tells the story of Lazarus being thrown into hell and begging for a drop of water. That's suffering my friend. Lot of preachers are reluctant to preach "hell, fire and brimstone" sermons these days for fear of running off the congretation but it's in the gospel and people need to be prepared.

RE: church and hunting
 

I used to go to church every Sunday when I was little. Never missed one for four years straight! (Got an award for it:)) Also, I used to "preach" on Sunday nights. My grandmother got me started in church and I loved it but I quit going when I started working for my uncle at age twelve.

I'm not going to lie or make excuses. I just don't want to go to church right now. AND, I'm surely not going back to the one I used to attend. The "preacher" is a freaking joke. How can a registered sex offender continue to preach??? LOL, it's a joke and I used to look up to that guy.

I believe and talk to God, just not in church. Here's where I get confused and have questions. Are we supposed to believe everything that is written in the Bible? For example, what if I told you I saw someone turn into a pillar of salt? You'd call me crazy. But, it happened according to the Bible. Someone told me that I was brought up to believe everything that is written in the Bible and that is why I have some of the questions I do.

Just to reiterate, I believe but I also have questions.

RE: church and hunting
 

I hunt on Sundays and I play in the church praise band.(my dads the leader;)) Its about living it everyday not just on Sunday. I also feel very close to God when Im in a stand.

RE: church and hunting
 

Man, talk about opening up a can o worms. Very good reading though!
My opinion on some of the points brought out:
The church & the hypocrite argument, yes there are hypocrites in every congregation, as Christians we are to try & be "Christ like", but we are human, thus we always fall short.
As far as missing a service, After my salvation I had a strong desire (the Holy Spirit) to be around fellow beleivers. Yes, if you are comfortable not being there for every service, then it's OK. The Bible does say to not forsake the assembly. To me that means got to church, worship & fellowship with other Christians, for their support & give support to them.
To the question about 3/4 of the people never hearing about God going to Hell....I beleive they will be treated as a child not at the age of accountability...That being said,it is OUR job as Christians..Go & tell of the good news! If you truly have received the gift of Grace, then you will want to share it!
minnisotadeer- your post makes my heart hurt. If your Pastor/Minister told you that you could go to heaven "Even if you don't beleive in God". It hurts for you and him and the congregation that he leads. Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to heaven, accept this FREE gift of salvation & you WILL go there some day....Don't & you will lift your eyes in HELL!
That's my 2 cents! Thanks & God Bless

RE: church and hunting
 

I heard a wise man say onetime "If a hypocrite is the only thing between you and God, then that still puts the hypocrite closer to God than you."

Having said that, while active in my church 8 months out of the year, I don't attend church much during my 4 month hunting season by CHOICE, so I guess I am a hypocrite.

I don't try and justify or rationalize, or try to deflect the issue by pointing out what someone else is doing that might be even MORE wrong. I acknowledge that a better balancecould be achieved with alittle efforton my part, but I CHOOSE to dootherwise, right or wrong.

Like many of you, I feel a closeness to God when alone surrounded in the beauty of the outdoors.

Ohhh. wait a minute....that sounds like rationalizing and I said I didn't do that. ;)

RE: church and hunting
 

Donnie, I hate that you went through what you did with that fake preacher [:@]He IS a joke ..... I would bet he is just the enemy's worker disguised as an angel of light ... the Bible talks about that quite abit ..... there are some things that are by faith alone ... you have never met God ....does that mean He doesn't exist? Like we talked about before .... ask God when you are alone .....ask Him to open your eyes to Him and His Word ..... you will be shocked what happens :)

RE: church and hunting
 

I miss church fairly often during hunting season. I'm not proud of that. Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. Through unearned grace and undeserved mercy I believe I will see Heaven despite my many imperfections.

RE: church and hunting
 

Even though I'll probably sound like an idiot, I'm going to post the following here. What do people mean when they say that they "found God?" When you say I'll be shocked to see what happens, will I actually see? Will it be clear? Do you have any examples of what others' experiences have been?

Trust me, I feel terrible about some of the questions I have but I have them. I might as well disclose them here. He knows the the same either way.

BTW...you're gonna be working overtime with this thread.:D

RE: church and hunting
 

AMEN, well said

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Dude, dont worry about asking questions... I garantee there are a bunch of lurkers on here That have the same questions as you.;)And you never know, all of this may bring another soul to the Lord:)

RE: church and hunting
 

LOL...I hope I'm not the only one. AND, I mean that in a good way.:)

RE: church and hunting
 

[&o]no knock on u rory but i gotta say it sur is disheartenign to here fellow catholics fall away from catholisism

RE: church and hunting
 

I'm not looking to get into some sort of contest, but Jesus does not talk of the fire and brimstone - devil stabbing you with a pitfork while you sink into fiery quicksand - hell that churches and religious leaders. He mentions it a total of a dozen times throughout the new testament when I counted and many of those times, its a passing veiled reference to not being saved. The most graphic depiction is in Revelations and that's not coming from Jesus. The old testament never mentions hell period. My point in bringing all of this up is that Hell, as most of us know it, devil and the pitchfork, was never propogated as widely or specifically by Jesus as it has been by church leaders. He was more concerned about people following God's teachings and being saved, not sending them to Hell. And this is getting way off topic.

RE: church and hunting
 

Jesus Christ is the most important part of my life. I almost never skip church to hunt, fish or do the other things i enjoy...I feel it is the least I can do to show God that he means more to me than even the biggest of bucks!!

RE: church and hunting
 

When I humbled myself and realised that God could speak to me .... that He wanted to.... He loved me enough to send Jesus down to die for me ... it took someone perfect to pay for the imperfect. .....I asked God for HIS truth ...not all the other truths I was hearing ...not mine ...but HIS .....I didn't see a vision or anything wild like that .....God just opened up my spiritual eyes ....after my conversion, I witnessed to my family ....it was a tough road, being an Italian Catholic family ...but through prayer and truth, they got saved ....one by one!!! It was AWESOME!!! You talk about a powerful God!!!! Pride abounds in Italians and Catholics ...but God is greater ..... I no longer desired everything, but God, I wanted to know him ......

Donnie...think about the girl you first fell in love with ..... you wanted to hear her speak ...you had to hear her voice .... whne she wrote you a note, you read it with exitement and wanted more of her writings ....you wanted to do things that pleased her ....to make her happy ..... kinda like what conversion is like ....

RE: church and hunting
 

I wouldn't really care if it was a knock on me. I tried Catholicism for 9 years, didn't work for me;)

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You really should be quiet with things you know NOTHING about.

you need to read a Bible, buddy!!!!

RE: church and hunting
 

Love the girlfriend analogy, Tony. I'd love to discuss this a little more but I'm heading out to the woods for some quiet time. Thanks for responding and if I have any more questions, I'll PM you.:)

RE: church and hunting
 

Good luck getting that one answered. According to some....the all-knowing, gracious God they worship intentionally creates his flock in his image......knowing that some of them will never hear of his word, and that their souls are doomed. He knows all, right?

It's about the biggestcase of "class envy" I've ever seen cited.

RE: church and hunting
 

Here is the point I think most lose sight. We are here for God's glory. Not the other way around. People get lost when they see God as "what can he do for me". They need to either recieve something from Him or put Him in a easy box they can understand.

My rule of thumb is, I want God to be much more than my feeble mind. If I could easily understand his will and his plan, he wouldn't be much of a God. I kinda expect more out of diety I worship.

God's will and plan is basically for the Jews. If we Christians benefit, thats great. Its a free gift, and should be selling itself. That covenant with Abraham hasn't changed. His will be done.

I sure can't say I know God's plan for everyone. I sure can't say I understand his will. I just know Paul teaches us that we are part of the body. Who are we who questions his will.

Jeff, you either believe or don't. Its that simple.

RE: church and hunting
 

JESUS says, he who hears my word and believes in him who sent me has eternal life and shall not come into judgement but shall be passed from death into life...John 5:24....

RE: church and hunting
 

I've thought of that myself, and have dwelled on it, theres nothing in the bible that says "people who never hear of Jesus goes to Hell"

Ive come to feel that the people know "something" is there. Relate to the idians if you will, though they were polytheistic they knew of a "great spirit".

Does that condem them to Hell? They gave thanks to the greatspirit, they worshiped. They KNEW something was there.

RE: church and hunting
 

Could be, who knows. I would hate to say, I know for fact that thats the case or not. I know God has his own covenant with the Jews, and had his own with us Christians.

But the bottom line is, I don't need to know what happens to others. I just need to know what happens to me if I deny Christ.

RE: church and hunting
 

So how do we know who's right? Different religions have different interpretations of the bible. Obviously, each religion feels they are correct. Shouldn't there be continuity with one god?

RE: church and hunting
 

HA! Good luck with that concept.

RE: church and hunting
 

Well, thats the easy part. You take the Scriptures we have, God's word, and you study them. You check out what the preacher said. You verify it. You cross it with the Greek translation. You find out what that greek word means here or there. You cross reference this with other appearances in the bible. You meditate on the word of God. You pray for God to lead you. In other words, you make up your own mind.

Problems exist when people neglect the word of God. They only believe folk tales or what they remember a preacher said.

Lately, I have been going thru a bad stretch. Just in an onery way. Ready to fight at a moments notice. Upset that God has not been talking to my heart. And this forum and this post, has reminded me, going to Church you may not hear God talking to you, wanting him to speak to your heart may not happen. You have to go back to the source. Thats where his source is.

RE: church and hunting
 

There is no luck to it. I have been asked this question dozens of times. And in every case when I ask the man or woman how much they study the Word, I get a reply of not at all to very little. How can one have continuity with the Living God without knowing his word?

RE: church and hunting
 

Jeff ...did you ever think that God, being all knowing, KNOWS who would accept His way and who wouldn't? I mean, I don't know for sure, but maybe he put everyone in their place for His OWN reason ....

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Could it not be agrued that the bible is a book of folk tales written to get a point across? I mean that in a good way. How do we know it is the word of god? Blind faith?

Again,I ask these questions because I want to learn similar to Finch. I am a curious person.

RE: church and hunting
 

PT,
So god has already chosen who will enter heaven? Am I understanding that right? If he believes someone will not believe in him, he has created their path to hell? I'm assuming that is not what you are saying that is why I ask.

If god has a plan for everyone, why wouldn't that plan include believing in him?

RE: church and hunting
 

Sorry BC... I was being sarcastic.

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I will be quiet after this, not because you tell me to or say that I am ignorant, but because I choose to. I have read the bible all my life - as a child and an adult. I have been to more masses and services than I can count. And I have studied many religious texts out of interest.I may not be a religious leader but Iam not ignorant. Someone who is ignorant is someone who hasn't taken the time to inform themselves of the topic they are speaking of. I have, though my interpretation of bible passages- when it comes to hell inparticular - may be different that your's as they are among various people of religious faiths and historians. Have an enjoyable life and happy hunting.

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God gives EVERYONE free choice, we are not robots.....in the above example, I was just throwing out a possibility .....who knows ...wait a minute....God does:)

RE: church and hunting
 

you exposed yourself when you said Jesus never spoke of hell ... then you tried to cover it when you said He didn't talk about it like it is preached ......

Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, ......

RE: church and hunting
 

First off, I would like to address anyone who does not believe there is a God. If you believe this, please walk outside right now and look at everything (not just one thing, everything) around you. Now, study these things for a moment in your mind, back to their origin/maker. Now ask yourself, "Did all this just come from nothing"? If you can believe it all came from nothing, then please ask yourself exactly what "nothing" is.

For those who want to know, God said His Word would be preached to all nations and every tongue before the end of time. Do you honestly believe God would already know you are going to hell and not offer His plan of repentance to you? Be it far from me to understand why people can not just believe.


LT

RE: church and hunting
 

The hardness of their hearts LT ....... and they want to be their own god .......