Update Wounded? Video Buck.
10-22-2008, 07:56 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 3,465
RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
It either was above the spine, or was a clean miss. No way guts at this point IMO.
I actually wondered how we knew those were arrow wounds as well when I first look, but I took for granted that it was a confirmed hit. IF there was question on whether it was a hit or not, I say tuffs of hair.
Were those marks still there?
I actually wondered how we knew those were arrow wounds as well when I first look, but I took for granted that it was a confirmed hit. IF there was question on whether it was a hit or not, I say tuffs of hair.
Were those marks still there?
10-22-2008, 08:01 PM
#12
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
If you don't think it's obvious....then you have a difference of opinion with the most knowledgeable person on animal biology probably on this site (he has published journals on such matters).
He stated very clearly and concisely that the tufts cited as wounds WOULD DEFINITELY have been a below the spine hit....and that the animal would die from them.
So your difference of opinion is with him. I just happen to agree with him...and did all along.
If you don't think it's obvious....then you have a difference of opinion with the most knowledgeable person on animal biology probably on this site (he has published journals on such matters).
He stated very clearly and concisely that the tufts cited as wounds WOULD DEFINITELY have been a below the spine hit....and that the animal would die from them.
So your difference of opinion is with him. I just happen to agree with him...and did all along.
10-22-2008, 08:03 PM
#14
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
For the sake of the "discussion", though....it was assumed they WERE entrance/exit wounds by all. I thought his response put that to bed quite nicely.
Tell Kurt I said "hi"....and I wish you both luck.
BTW....answer your damned phone sometime.
Tell Kurt I said "hi"....and I wish you both luck.
BTW....answer your damned phone sometime.
10-22-2008, 08:21 PM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
If that buck gets shot and there Is no wounds In front of them back quarters, Motown nailed It right away like Rob said! If It gets shot and them are wounds, what's the argument going to be then?? My take Is no different then before that no guts were ever touched period whether that's a wound or not. It would be dead other wise.
I bet you never expected this Rob?!?
I bet you never expected this Rob?!?
10-22-2008, 08:29 PM
#16
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
LOL....LOTS of people said the "wounds" were above the spine....and that no guts were hit.
Like I said....whether they were wounds or not....the premise accepted by all discussing it was that they were wounds.
So how do we know who "nailed it" without knowing if they ARE wounds? Far as I'm concerend....we can't.
Like I said....whether they were wounds or not....the premise accepted by all discussing it was that they were wounds.
So how do we know who "nailed it" without knowing if they ARE wounds? Far as I'm concerend....we can't.
10-22-2008, 08:33 PM
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
If you don't think it's obvious....then you have a difference of opinion with the most knowledgeable person on animal biology probably on this site (he has published journals on such matters).
He stated very clearly and concisely that the tufts cited as wounds WOULD DEFINITELY have been a below the spine hit....and that the animal would die from them.
So your difference of opinion is with him. I just happen to agree with him...and did all along.
If you don't think it's obvious....then you have a difference of opinion with the most knowledgeable person on animal biology probably on this site (he has published journals on such matters).
He stated very clearly and concisely that the tufts cited as wounds WOULD DEFINITELY have been a below the spine hit....and that the animal would die from them.
So your difference of opinion is with him. I just happen to agree with him...and did all along.
10-22-2008, 08:43 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central Minnesota
Posts: 9,445
RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
LOL....LOTS of people said the "wounds" were above the spine....and that no guts were hit.
So how do we know who "nailed it" without knowing if they ARE wounds? Far as I'm concerned....we can't.
10-22-2008, 08:49 PM
#19
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Update Wounded? Video Buck.
Just in case you missed it.....here is MEZ's reply on the "other" thread...
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Haven't logged on in a while. In case anyone cares here are my opinions on the shot, or lack thereof.
As to the exit wound, definately in the abdominal cavity. No question in my mind that the arrow passed under the vertebral column. The still pictures it is very hard to tell. You can see no topographical landmarks on the deer in the still photos to relate the exit hole with. Also there is alot of angle in the shots, making the hole actually appear higher on the deer's body than it actually is.You get a much clearer picture from theclose up video posted on page 8.In the video you can see bony landmarks to equate the exit hole with.I lableld the picture below with those bony landmarks and some other anatomical things of note.
Two black circles: The top one is the tuber coxae, you can clearly see this in the video, and as you can see in the above picture it lies directly over the spine. Bottom one is the location of the patella in the stifle joint, harder to see but I know where it is on the video.
Red circle: Exit wound 2/3 of the way between the patella and tuber coxae. Well below the spine.
Two red lines: lumbar vetebrae and thoracic vertebrae, notice the height difference. Huge difference. It is much harder to shoot over the spine in the lumbar area than it is in the thoracic area. The whiters, area between the shoulder blades are much higher than that over the back.
Two more pics to illustrate this, the first is a thoracic veterbrae, the second is lumbar, note the height difference.
The angle is irrelevant in the photos. There is only one way for there to be an exit wound wherethis oneappears to be and have not entered the abdominal cavity. That would be from directly straight above the deer pushing down between the skin and body wall. IMO, if the arrow exited at the tuft in the photos and video, dead deer. Cut the rumen, and likely small intestine as well. Gut shot and he'll die.
My other opinion, your cousin missed the deer clean Rob. In the video I can't see any evidence that that is an arrow wound. At three days were that a wound there would be drainge from the wound or at least evidence of drainage. There is none. Appears to be a tuft of hair to me. There is clearly a wound on the neck of the deer but I would say that wound is a minimum of 10 days old by the appearance. You can see the skin is pink. That is either new skin or simply a patch of missing hair.
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Haven't logged on in a while. In case anyone cares here are my opinions on the shot, or lack thereof.
As to the exit wound, definately in the abdominal cavity. No question in my mind that the arrow passed under the vertebral column. The still pictures it is very hard to tell. You can see no topographical landmarks on the deer in the still photos to relate the exit hole with. Also there is alot of angle in the shots, making the hole actually appear higher on the deer's body than it actually is.You get a much clearer picture from theclose up video posted on page 8.In the video you can see bony landmarks to equate the exit hole with.I lableld the picture below with those bony landmarks and some other anatomical things of note.
Two black circles: The top one is the tuber coxae, you can clearly see this in the video, and as you can see in the above picture it lies directly over the spine. Bottom one is the location of the patella in the stifle joint, harder to see but I know where it is on the video.
Red circle: Exit wound 2/3 of the way between the patella and tuber coxae. Well below the spine.
Two red lines: lumbar vetebrae and thoracic vertebrae, notice the height difference. Huge difference. It is much harder to shoot over the spine in the lumbar area than it is in the thoracic area. The whiters, area between the shoulder blades are much higher than that over the back.
Two more pics to illustrate this, the first is a thoracic veterbrae, the second is lumbar, note the height difference.
The angle is irrelevant in the photos. There is only one way for there to be an exit wound wherethis oneappears to be and have not entered the abdominal cavity. That would be from directly straight above the deer pushing down between the skin and body wall. IMO, if the arrow exited at the tuft in the photos and video, dead deer. Cut the rumen, and likely small intestine as well. Gut shot and he'll die.
My other opinion, your cousin missed the deer clean Rob. In the video I can't see any evidence that that is an arrow wound. At three days were that a wound there would be drainge from the wound or at least evidence of drainage. There is none. Appears to be a tuft of hair to me. There is clearly a wound on the neck of the deer but I would say that wound is a minimum of 10 days old by the appearance. You can see the skin is pink. That is either new skin or simply a patch of missing hair.
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