Rob's Buck on Video (CLOSE UP VID PG 8)
 

(EDIT) Rob did not shoot this buck, he videoed the buck.

So we don't hijack rob's cool thread.
The shooter was no where near high enough(in his stand)to get into the body cavity. My guess is the arrow "skipped" right over it.

The exit holes is perfect height;)

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Your "arrow" line doesn't show depth (3D).

Go look at the video and tell me how going over the spine and that exit hole jives with this diagram.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

No it does and here is why IMO

The diagram does not take fat issue;) Deer in the North have more Fat. In general and inch or two, sometimes a lot more.
Also heavier winter coats IMO.

Like I said, if I was 15 ft up in a tree and I put an arrow right where this shooter did, I'd throw my bow in the river. Now take that same shot placement 25ft up in a tree and we have a dead deer. There are others factors we do not know.

BH used
Arrow weight
KE
Momentum

Who knows

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

.



If he ran out of your set like that.....would you think he was gonna live?

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

ahhhh i aint touchin this one....its really hard to say from what we can see....

either ways, its alive 3 days later......i just have a hard time seeing it NOT being in the cavity at all and not atleast nicking some gut....i wish we could see the other side...i cant get a good idea of how high that entrance is....

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

That deer will die...

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Show the screen capture of the deer facing straight away..........that really gives a better feel for the angle of entry and exit vs this picture.

I'd do it myself but I'm on dial up with Mickey Mouse computer skills.
;):D

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

It just seems like something internal must have been clipped.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

OK Matt.....then show the one where he's got his head turned to the left (facing away) and he's grazing.

That wound is nearly a foot down that buck's side.

I'm not saying Rob "should" have.....but if I look at that wound, here....I'm taking that buck. I feel in my heart and head it's gonna die.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Man, it is hard to imagine it didn't at least nick the intestines. Obviously it is still alive, but could definitely succumb to infection. Who knows. Pretty neat to get it on film.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Tough to call on that one. If that deer dropped at the shot, his body is going to look way different than it does right there. All the loose skin is going to go up, thereby potentially giving a false impression of where the hit was, versus where the holes actually ended up on the relaxed animal.

I'm not shooting that deer either, Rob. He looks pretty good, and yes he may die, but i'm burning a buck tag on him, with no obvious ailments at this point. Since the wound is so fresh, it is going to look potentially worse. Pat Reeve's buck is a perfect example of a shot that I would have bet the farm was lethal, but merely rode the ribcage and never entered the cavity.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

I have much more footage I will try to get on.

I told Ben, if I had any thoughts of that deer suffering or dying, I would have zipped him immediately. I feel it's nothing more than a flesh wound and he's fine. Any hint of internal organs being damaged and that deer would be sickly, he didn't indicate that at all. He was shot Friday morning around 10:45 am and this was Monday evening around 6:00 pm.



My cousin hunts at around 20' and the deer was 15 yards and the arrow nicked a branch, Muzzy 100 grain heads. FYI

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

If I see him again, I will film him, I'm betting I see him again and if he's stiff or sickly and in range, I'll zip him.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

that makes it harder to believe that nothing was hit...

did you see your cousins arrow Rob?? just curious....


to be honest, that DOES like like a RAGE hit....thats a big ole gash of an exit....i dont know...i still think something almost HAD to be hit....(gut wise)

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Good point

That arrow went right over the spine;)

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

not stirring the pot or fighting with you Rob...you know that...

i would had a REAL hard time burning my only buck tag on that deer as well...he seems 100% healthy....but ive seen it take a week or 2 for them to start getting sick, infection, cold weather etc....just keep an eye on him...nothin else you can do...we can sit here all day and try to analyze it, but we cant be sure...but if i seen my arrow in him, i would gave him 8-12hrs to die and been sick when i didnt find him...no way i would though he would been alive...


i cant believe thats a muzzy hole! i would bet rage or snyper looking at the exit...guess its dried blood and stuff too im looking at.....a nice bath and he would look good as new ;)

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

I've read articles and books that discuss gut shots and have said that stomach matter and sometimes the lining itself can block a hole in the GI tract and the deer can heal and live fine afterwards. If that arrow caught the small intestine, which it could have possibly done in this case that wound is survivable from what I have read. The deer certainly looked no worse for wear in the video. I would think that if he were in bad shape it would have shown in his behavior that long after the hit.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Why shoot a presently perfectly healthy deer only because he has a wound? I must be missing something?!?

From Mausers pic, I can see that arrow possibly going high just over the spine...its hard to tell. I didnt see it in person, and would have passed if I did with that deer's body status.

Just because one is down, doesnt mean you should automatically count him out....taking the buck is fine, but using the injury as the reason, seems silly to me. Sure if one is direly sick with blue tung or something and it has no chance of making it, I'd end the suffering too....but these are pretty resiliant animals, a broken leg or flesh wound doesn't mean they are crippled and suffering for life...they can survive just the same as other deer.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

PLENTY of stories of gutshot deer dying 10 or more days later from infection.

1 of two things is evident. Either you can have an exit hole nearly a foot down a deer's side and he can live ...OR....these diagrams everyone wants to instantly refer to are completely useless.

Or...I guess I should have said...."If you believe one....you can't believe the other".

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Looks to me like he will be fine barring a serious infection. Watching the video he shows little if anysign of pain.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

In this view, from an elevated position I can see how an arrow can clip the top of the spin, not sever it and pass under the hide and exit.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

IMO that deer was not gut shot at all. He would walk all hunch up, he's as healthy as Jeff's Goat:D

Jeff, we don't know if this deer was all hunch up like yooper stated. If he was than the diagram is useless IMO

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

So gutshot deer.....(I'm trying to learn something here) walk "hunched up" from the time theyre shot until they die? Documented?

If we can agree that the exit wound (shown on the entrance side....due to the orientation of the diagram) is where I have the green dot.....show me where the entrance wound would have to be. Oh yeah.....refer back to the video and see if you're close.

If Rob gets video of this deer in November....I'll take my crow medium rare.






You can refer back to this if you need to.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Jeff if that deer had a hole in his belly, he would be walking hunched up.

Your arrow is way too low and angle is not steep enough.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

What's your point by this comment?
You just stated exactly what I did in my post...........show the angle of the deer facing straight away. That really gives a better look at the position of the entry and exit than that offset picture.

With the animal facing away you can get a better orientation of the very top of the animal and where the arrow went in and out.

It's definitely a weird one........it almost looks as if to exit where the arrow did the arrow would have to go right through the spine but obviously it didn't. The deer's body is curved, not straight sloped so the broadhead obviously didn't ride right under the skin in an arc coming out where it did or the skin would be gashed wide open.
I still think that some internal organs (most likely intestine) had to be at least clipped. The question is if they were do they heal on their own and at what rate? I wonder how sharp the broadhead was as well.........I can't remember if Rob mentioned it or not but I seem to think he mentioned that his cousin isn't a very "serious" type bowhunter so who knows what condition the blades were in prior as well.

Hopefully rob can watch this buck throughout the season. I'd say if he makes it through the week or so he'll be fine.
He sure is acting it right now. I know if I was hit through my intestines with a Muzzy I'd be lying on the ground screaming and crying like a 6yr old girl who just got her favorite Barbie doll taken away from her. ;):D

I had the exact opposite impression of the exit wound than Mauser did too..........very modest and not a lot of apparent damage.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Holy ****, Gary. "MY" "arrow" is where the HOLES ARE!....lol

You're 1 dimensional black line is useless.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

I'm surprised it didn't spine him but from the video I would have to say it some how went above. I'm not seeing signs of a gut shot

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

My ONLY point (evn though I think the arrow DID go under the spine) is....exactly what you state, above. HOW cn you have an exit wound from a pass-thru THAT ow on a deer's body....and expect that no internal organs were hit?

What do we tell EVERYBODY about gutshot deer? They WILL die from their wounds.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Dude your arrow is too flat and need to come up a bit.

Shot 20 ft from a tree at 15 yds, this is what we know.I have never seen an arrow that flat from over 20 ft. That buck will live a long and happy life.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

There is no doubt in my mind that the arrow went OVER the spine or through the top bones and didn't break the spine nor sever the spinal cord. There is no way in hell that arrow went under the spine like Germ said, 20' up, 15 yards. Had the arrow been under the spine, the exit would have been much lower and that deer would be dead now. I wouldn't have seen him.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Im just joining this thread after reading and seeing it all, I think the arrow went just under the spine in a viod area above the intestines and right through the backstraps. There is no way that arrow went over the spine and curved around and made that exit hole. In looking at the diagram the guts don't actually go all the way up to the spine like it shows. There is some meat in there between the guts and the spine and that is what it looks like it went through. What I can't believe is that it didn't hit the main artery running down that area of the deer. The deer is going to live, if it was infected that deer would be laying next to a rive in some thick sh$t with a fever like no other, and if it hit or even nicked some guts he would be infected by now and not thinking about food and walking around. He looks a little sore when he walks but I have seen trail came picks on this site before of people hitting deer in that area (a little up farther up twards the vitals) but they had them with there wounds on a trail came pick a couple of weeks later doing just fine.

You made the right desicion!....It would have been another story if he came by you all hunched up and struggling. He's walking around and thinking about food and he isn't infected so he will live.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

That's misrepresnting the idea a bit.........the textbook "gutshot" generally involves a complete through and through of the body cavity. IMO there's a heck of a lot more damage done on an arrow that travels straight through the entire organ or organs (stomach and intestines) vs one that may have just grazed the outer layer of possibly the intestines for all we know cutting one small ribbon of intestine vs slamming headlong through the whole body cavity.

I don't see how the arrow could have passed UNDER the spine and that deer still be alive. right under the spine at that point lies the kidneys and the main vasculature. That arrow IMO isn't sneaking under the spine without killing that deer in seconds by severing the main artery or near side kidney.

I do also think it snuck over the spine (It tapers pretty good at that area near the thicker part of the backstraps, but I also do think that the arrow had to sneak into the body cavity a bit on the far side simply due to the shape and curve of the body.
Whatever is hit if anything apparently??...............he's doing pretty good.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

I'll do it your way, Germ!

Edit**

Gary....I CAN'T (I went into paint and tried) make the angle any differently without it looking REALLY stupid.

I guess you need to show me what you're talking about. if you don't use the entrance and exit as reference.....and assume a straight line through them.....what else can you do? I'm perplexed.

And for the record....I NEVER said Roba should have shot this buck. I said "I" might have. I have two tags....and I did it, last year on an injured buck. I have NO issues with ANYONE who would pass on this buck. None.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Is anyone even looking at the video? Is it not clear that the hair is raised in a perfectly straight line from entrance to exit? Does that not indicate to you that the arrow passed just under the hide raising the hair like that?

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Man Germ, I am thankful you started a new thread. Whew...and I'll get more footage up tonight with close ups on the hit.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Matt.....I don't see a pass-thru (and we're just talking, here......trust me) as any different from a peircing wound if we're talking about intestines and infection. I've got an 11" scar on my stomach from surgery I had to remove an infected portion of my intestine that was pierced internally from a fish bone. If I hadn't had it removed....yes...I would have died.

Far as I know.....these things just don't "repair themselves". Maybe I'll learn something from this.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Oh...that straight line don't mean crap. Some of you have had to hit a rib before and deflected your arrow in a different direction right. Happens all the time.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

You have to do it from the view I did. With the deer walking away. Jeff at one point video the buck is eating and the exit hole is facing the camera. I can see the top entrance hole, IMO that arrow did not touch a thing besides hide, fat and some fur.

I bet the arrow was covered with white fat on the end and was clean in the front. Rob I would love confirmation on this.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

Could this not be the swelling from the channel created by the arrow? And who knows how much swelling?

Is there something on the video we're not seeing in this pic?

Id love to have seen the arrow, myself.

New thread??....lol They were ALL (videos) on that one! I just think it's an interesting discussion.

RE: Rob's Buck on Video
 

I noticed that "swelling" look myself.........From that picture (The best one IMO) it very much appears that the arrow stayed completely over the spine.

I would bet that elongated lump IS swelling around the wound channel.