Ethics,are they personall
09-05-2008, 10:53 PM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
Ethics,are they personall
I for one feel an ethical shot is any shot that the shooter feels he or she can take an animal quickly and humanely.
If said shooter feels the odds are stacked against them and they still take the shot in a poke and hope mentality,THEN,it is not an ethical shot.IMO
I see it every year where the computer ethics mentality comes back to bite someone in the but.They scream and yell about certain shots being unethical but when they are confronted with those very shots in real life situations,they come back on here and say,well,I shouldn't have but I took so and so shot.Now what do I do?Or,I know I shouldn't have taken this shot BUT I got this nicedeer.
There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rules and the real life scenarios will always have slight variables which the shooter must make a QUICK REAL LIFE decision,do I shoot or not?
That shot should always have one question in the shooters mind,Do I think I can make a quick and humane kill shot(no,it isn't do I know,because we NEVER know)If the answer is no,or chances are I won't,then you don't shoot.PERIOD
This thread was brought on by the neck shot thread.NO,I have never taken a neck shot(with a bow)but would I if conditions dictate,I believe I would.Give me a 10 yard shot,deer completely covered except for the neck(and no chance,in my mind that the deer will offer a broadside lung shot)and he is facing me,there is a strong POSSIBILITY that I might.I must say that I have passed many neck shots in real life,some even with a pistol in hand at 20 yards on atleast 1 VERY NICE buck.BUT I didn't feel the odds were in my favor.
I personally feel that the neckshot is much better than the straight down shot that many bowhunters take every year.AND never find the animal.That is a shot I really don't see much of a reason to take,seems to me the deer has to walk out a few feet at some point,but there again,the real life situation will dictate said action.
I have taken the dreaded quarter to shot ONCE in my life with a bow but the situation dictated it was a good shot and the deer lay dead in less than 30 yards.
Now,of course,education of what is a good shot and how good said archer is will go a long way in determining what a good and ethical shot is.IMHO
I know some members on this forum that are regarded HIGHLY as bowhunters and archersand will not discuss what kind of shots they downed an animal with because they will be crucified by the shot selection but they have taken hundreds of game with a bow and lost very few if any animals.Are they ethical,unethical,skilled or just very lucky hunters?
I myself prefer to shoot at a walking animal.They are realtively calm and unalert.I can make that shot out to 35 yards or so VERY COMPETITANTLY.But many scream,unethical when it is discussed.
SO,to summarize,IMO,one should learn what a good shot is.They should be competent with their equipment.They should know what shots they feel they can make and take an animal quickly and humanely and stick only to shots they feel the odds are stacked in their favor to take an animal quickly and humanely.Then and only then are you an ethical hunter.
I will NEVER take a shot in HOPES to take an animal.I will only take shots that I am relatively sure I can make a quick clean kill on an animal.
To me,that is what makes a hunter ethical and what makes their shot selection ethical.The key is education of a kill shot and skill with their equipment.
If said shooter feels the odds are stacked against them and they still take the shot in a poke and hope mentality,THEN,it is not an ethical shot.IMO
I see it every year where the computer ethics mentality comes back to bite someone in the but.They scream and yell about certain shots being unethical but when they are confronted with those very shots in real life situations,they come back on here and say,well,I shouldn't have but I took so and so shot.Now what do I do?Or,I know I shouldn't have taken this shot BUT I got this nicedeer.
There are ALWAYS exceptions to the rules and the real life scenarios will always have slight variables which the shooter must make a QUICK REAL LIFE decision,do I shoot or not?
That shot should always have one question in the shooters mind,Do I think I can make a quick and humane kill shot(no,it isn't do I know,because we NEVER know)If the answer is no,or chances are I won't,then you don't shoot.PERIOD
This thread was brought on by the neck shot thread.NO,I have never taken a neck shot(with a bow)but would I if conditions dictate,I believe I would.Give me a 10 yard shot,deer completely covered except for the neck(and no chance,in my mind that the deer will offer a broadside lung shot)and he is facing me,there is a strong POSSIBILITY that I might.I must say that I have passed many neck shots in real life,some even with a pistol in hand at 20 yards on atleast 1 VERY NICE buck.BUT I didn't feel the odds were in my favor.
I personally feel that the neckshot is much better than the straight down shot that many bowhunters take every year.AND never find the animal.That is a shot I really don't see much of a reason to take,seems to me the deer has to walk out a few feet at some point,but there again,the real life situation will dictate said action.
I have taken the dreaded quarter to shot ONCE in my life with a bow but the situation dictated it was a good shot and the deer lay dead in less than 30 yards.
Now,of course,education of what is a good shot and how good said archer is will go a long way in determining what a good and ethical shot is.IMHO
I know some members on this forum that are regarded HIGHLY as bowhunters and archersand will not discuss what kind of shots they downed an animal with because they will be crucified by the shot selection but they have taken hundreds of game with a bow and lost very few if any animals.Are they ethical,unethical,skilled or just very lucky hunters?
I myself prefer to shoot at a walking animal.They are realtively calm and unalert.I can make that shot out to 35 yards or so VERY COMPETITANTLY.But many scream,unethical when it is discussed.
SO,to summarize,IMO,one should learn what a good shot is.They should be competent with their equipment.They should know what shots they feel they can make and take an animal quickly and humanely and stick only to shots they feel the odds are stacked in their favor to take an animal quickly and humanely.Then and only then are you an ethical hunter.
I will NEVER take a shot in HOPES to take an animal.I will only take shots that I am relatively sure I can make a quick clean kill on an animal.
To me,that is what makes a hunter ethical and what makes their shot selection ethical.The key is education of a kill shot and skill with their equipment.
09-06-2008, 04:45 AM
#2
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Ethics,are they personall
SO,to summarize,IMO,one should learn what a good shot is.They should be competent with their equipment.They should know what shots they feel they can make and take an animal quickly and humanely and stick only to shots they feel the odds are stacked in their favor to take an animal quickly and humanely.Then and only then are you an ethical hunter.
Also....I think it's important to note that what's ethical for someone else.....may NOT be, for you....and vice-versa (in the shot selection world). Just because "I" can't pulll off a 60yd shot on a deer.....doesn't mean someone else can't. Some people can pull off that shot with completely ethical accuracy. Just because YOU don't feel comfortable.....or YOU can't fathom taking a certain type of shot......don't assume everyone is in the same boat.
09-06-2008, 05:34 AM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 2,333
RE: Ethics,are they personall
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Good post...
Also....I think it's important to note that what's ethical for someone else.....may NOT be, for you....and vice-versa (in the shot selection world). Just because "I" can't pulll off a 60yd shot on a deer.....doesn't mean someone else can't. Some people can pull off that shot with completely ethical accuracy. Just because YOU don't feel comfortable.....or YOU can't fathom taking a certain type of shot......don't assume everyone is in the same boat.
SO,to summarize,IMO,one should learn what a good shot is.They should be competent with their equipment.They should know what shots they feel they can make and take an animal quickly and humanely and stick only to shots they feel the odds are stacked in their favor to take an animal quickly and humanely.Then and only then are you an ethical hunter.
Also....I think it's important to note that what's ethical for someone else.....may NOT be, for you....and vice-versa (in the shot selection world). Just because "I" can't pulll off a 60yd shot on a deer.....doesn't mean someone else can't. Some people can pull off that shot with completely ethical accuracy. Just because YOU don't feel comfortable.....or YOU can't fathom taking a certain type of shot......don't assume everyone is in the same boat.
I've always stayed out of the "shot ethics" threads. I'll shoot the shot I'm comfortable with and I'm certain I can make, and I personally don't care howanyone else feels about it. I've not yet hit an animal that I didn't recover, and hopefully I wont.
As to the 60 yard shot; if I had a deer standing still, unaware of me, no obstructions and no significant wind... I could take it, and I know I could kill it.Will I? Depends on the situation. Probably not, but that's not the point. This may only be my second year bowhunting, but I've practiced hard practically every day since I got my bow in February 2007. I may be new, butI'm also a pretty darned good shot.
eth·ics
(
th
ks) n.
1.
a. A set of principles of right conduct.
[/align]b. A theory or a system of moral values
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[/align]Who is to say that it's notRIGHT or it's MORALLY WRONG for me or someone else to take a 60 yard shot or a neck shot at 10 yards? No-one on this site has even met me. No-one has the foggiest idea of how good or bad I am with my bow. All anyone can do is try do judge me by their own capabilities, and that's just wrong.
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[/align]It baffles me how sothat many of the same folks that will cry "ethical foul" and call for the crucifixion of someone who would take a 60 yard shot, a quartering to shot or a neck shot will come right out and say that they'll cross a posted property line against the known wishes of the property owner to retrieve an animal, which for one is downright illegal in most states, and secondly is clearly unethical under definition a. above.
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09-06-2008, 05:44 AM
#4
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 223
RE: Ethics,are they personall
There are so many factors to consider when taking a shot. When I joined this forum, I thought I was ready to hunt, with shots up to 50 yards. I was wrong.
The balance between yardage and the alertness of the deer Is the most Important factor In accuracy, and this judgment can only be made in the field. I have seen too many videos of arrow flight where the deer completely flinches just before the arrow hits.
As for shot placement, I have learned that I should be picturing my arrow In the deer before I take the shot. Picturing where the arrow hits, and what its path is going to be due to any angle I might be shooting on.
There are always exceptions to the rules. The rules are there as a guideline. My drawlength is 1/2" too long. I get **** for it every time I go to the shooting range, but it is comfortable to me, and I am better able to replicate my form with it. When it comes to ethics and shooting form, comfort and the ability to execute always prevail over "rules".
The balance between yardage and the alertness of the deer Is the most Important factor In accuracy, and this judgment can only be made in the field. I have seen too many videos of arrow flight where the deer completely flinches just before the arrow hits.
As for shot placement, I have learned that I should be picturing my arrow In the deer before I take the shot. Picturing where the arrow hits, and what its path is going to be due to any angle I might be shooting on.
There are always exceptions to the rules. The rules are there as a guideline. My drawlength is 1/2" too long. I get **** for it every time I go to the shooting range, but it is comfortable to me, and I am better able to replicate my form with it. When it comes to ethics and shooting form, comfort and the ability to execute always prevail over "rules".
09-06-2008, 05:49 AM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: Ethics,are they personall
everything changes when you walk in the woods.
I think an ethical shot is one a shooter thinks he can take. I think alot of people say one thing but if it means a buck or even a doe on the ground the might step over the line or rub it out alittle.
I think an ethical shot is one a shooter thinks he can take. I think alot of people say one thing but if it means a buck or even a doe on the ground the might step over the line or rub it out alittle.
09-06-2008, 06:49 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 3,612
RE: Ethics,are they personall
Good post. This to me sums it up TFOX:
"I will NEVER take a shot in HOPES to take an animal.I will only take shots that I am relatively sure I can make a quick clean kill on an animal. "
"I will NEVER take a shot in HOPES to take an animal.I will only take shots that I am relatively sure I can make a quick clean kill on an animal. "
09-06-2008, 06:57 AM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: PA
Posts: 8,167
RE: Ethics,are they personall
Ethics are a tough thing for some to come to terms with. Many confuse ethics with legalities, many things in todays world are legal but far from ethical.
We have the same thread every month or two about trespassing,each time with a little different twist. There is a huge difference in going on anthers land that you have not gained permission from & entering a mans property that is posted andyou have been told never to enter for any reason. The ethical hunter hunts far enough away from the line to preclude a mortal wounded deer will succumb before it gets that far.[:-]
Ethics is best explained by always doing the right thing when one one would ever know the difference any way. A man that is unethical when around others will most certainly be unethical when alone.[:'(]
We have the same thread every month or two about trespassing,each time with a little different twist. There is a huge difference in going on anthers land that you have not gained permission from & entering a mans property that is posted andyou have been told never to enter for any reason. The ethical hunter hunts far enough away from the line to preclude a mortal wounded deer will succumb before it gets that far.[:-]
Ethics is best explained by always doing the right thing when one one would ever know the difference any way. A man that is unethical when around others will most certainly be unethical when alone.[:'(]
09-06-2008, 07:57 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,363
RE: Ethics,are they personall
On this one, I feel stems from yearsof moral ethics going down hill. What waould have been un-ethical 10 years ago is considered ethical or the "norm"today not only in hunting but also in everyday life. I also believe in "general" ethics will be different depending on the age of the person in question, not for everyone but for the most part. I also believe that as hunters we have a different set of ethics than say the non hunting population and that spills overinto our everyday lives. There are always going to be the folks that just have NO moral ethics, whether it be taughtfrom there parents or just by the nature of the person. I believe in general on this site you will find that most have better than average moral ethics.....Kudo's to all you guys and gals for that too, as in this day and time there is a lot to be said for having a set of moral ethics.....OK ...Now let's talk hunting!!!
09-06-2008, 08:47 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Camden,MO
Posts: 2,546
RE: Ethics,are they personall
Great post.
and to be honest sometimes its hard to be "ethical" for younger people.
case in point. Last year i put in more time on the stand than I EVER have. saw alot of bucks. had a couple of encounters with "the one". as soon as i saw him i knew i wanted him. late in october, afternoon hunt, everything was perfect. everybuck was chasing and with a single rattle and grunt i had him coming in on a string. he stops at eight yards broadside.....with vitals behind a tree. i could see 90% of the front shoulder. he looks up and spots me and i elected to wait for a couple more steps. well he took a couple more but they where about 90 mph. no shot no deer.
I have gotten more crap for not taking tha shot than anything else i have done. but i didn't feel comfortable taking that shot and having him run 4 miles and not being able to find him cause i didn't get good penetration. but i am happy with my choice.
Oh and the deer didn't make it throughrifle season
and to be honest sometimes its hard to be "ethical" for younger people.
case in point. Last year i put in more time on the stand than I EVER have. saw alot of bucks. had a couple of encounters with "the one". as soon as i saw him i knew i wanted him. late in october, afternoon hunt, everything was perfect. everybuck was chasing and with a single rattle and grunt i had him coming in on a string. he stops at eight yards broadside.....with vitals behind a tree. i could see 90% of the front shoulder. he looks up and spots me and i elected to wait for a couple more steps. well he took a couple more but they where about 90 mph. no shot no deer.
I have gotten more crap for not taking tha shot than anything else i have done. but i didn't feel comfortable taking that shot and having him run 4 miles and not being able to find him cause i didn't get good penetration. but i am happy with my choice.
Oh and the deer didn't make it throughrifle season
09-06-2008, 09:14 AM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: Ethics,are they personall
ORIGINAL: TexasBowHunter
On this one, I feel stems from yearsof moral ethics going down hill. What waould have been un-ethical 10 years ago is considered ethical or the "norm"today not only in hunting but also in everyday life. I also believe in "general" ethics will be different depending on the age of the person in question, not for everyone but for the most part. I also believe that as hunters we have a different set of ethics than say the non hunting population and that spills overinto our everyday lives. There are always going to be the folks that just have NO moral ethics, whether it be taughtfrom there parents or just by the nature of the person. I believe in general on this site you will find that most have better than average moral ethics.....Kudo's to all you guys and gals for that too, as in this day and time there is a lot to be said for having a set of moral ethics.....OK ...Now let's talk hunting!!!
On this one, I feel stems from yearsof moral ethics going down hill. What waould have been un-ethical 10 years ago is considered ethical or the "norm"today not only in hunting but also in everyday life. I also believe in "general" ethics will be different depending on the age of the person in question, not for everyone but for the most part. I also believe that as hunters we have a different set of ethics than say the non hunting population and that spills overinto our everyday lives. There are always going to be the folks that just have NO moral ethics, whether it be taughtfrom there parents or just by the nature of the person. I believe in general on this site you will find that most have better than average moral ethics.....Kudo's to all you guys and gals for that too, as in this day and time there is a lot to be said for having a set of moral ethics.....OK ...Now let's talk hunting!!!
I challenge you to go look at some old footage of Fred Bear and some of his shots.Many of his shots were completely unethical in todays world.What is considered ethical shots are tightening up,not loosening up.
IMHO