HuntingNet.com Forums
Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

HuntingNet.com Forums (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/)
-   Bowhunting (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunting-18/)
-   -   What's wrong with this POV? (https://www.huntingnet.com/forum/bowhunting/257025-whats-wrong-pov.html)

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:06 PM
What's wrong with this POV?
 
I'm usually one of the ones touting D&DH articles....but this recent issue has an article discussing the advantages to a heavy hunting arrow....and the author says this:

"But really, all you need to know about momentum is that, all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum. Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply".

If you're touting heavy arrows over lighter arrows.....what's wrong with these statements?

Bowtech 360 08-10-2008 08:08 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Nothing

Bullet Hole Bailey 08-10-2008 08:10 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: Bowtech 360

Nothing
Thats what I was going to say....its a fact isnt it?

cooter144 08-10-2008 08:10 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
A lighter arrow would fly FASTER than a heavier arrow if shot from the same bow

Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:12 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
I don't see anything wrong with either of the two statements.

2 arrows traveling at the same speed, one heavy, the other light it's obvious that the heavier of the two will have more KE.

Plus, it is more difficult to stop a heavy object over a lighter object traveling at the same speed.



Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:13 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: cooter144

A lighter arrow would fly FASTER than a heavier arrow if shot from the same bow
He doesn't say that. He states that a heavy arrow vs a ligher arrow at the SAME speed.

Although your statement is true.

whitetailbowhunter 08-10-2008 08:14 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
I can't find nothing wrong.[&:]

Bowtech 360 08-10-2008 08:14 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: cooter144

A lighter arrow would fly FASTER than a heavier arrow if shot from the same bow
you would have to test at which point a lighter faster arrow would equal the penatrating power of a slower heavier arrow.

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:15 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Thanks, Cooter. I wonder who they think is reading this stuff?

all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum.
All things CAN'T be equal if we're comapring heavy to light. They'd have to be shot at differing draw weights for that to be true.

Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply".
Again....I suppose the fact that the lighter arrow would be traveling faster is a non-issue????????:eek:

TFOX 08-10-2008 08:18 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
It is a non issue on bone,not on tissue though.

Momentum(arrow weight)will win out everytime on bone.Regardless of how fast a light arrow shoots out of the same bow.Tissue is another story all together.

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:20 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
OOps..

Sorry guys[8D]

Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:21 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Thanks, Cooter. I wonder who they think is reading this stuff?

all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum.
All things CAN'T be equal if we're comapring heavy to light. They'd have to be shot at differing draw weights for that to be true.

Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply".
Again....I suppose the fact that the lighter arrow would be traveling faster is a non-issue????????:eek:



Me thinks you guys are over analyzing his statement. He said nothing out of the same bow. It's a very simple example to understand momentum, nothing more.

A heavier arrow traveling at the same speed as a lighter arrow, the heavier arrow will have more momentum and penetrate further.

It's that simple.

Now we can get difficult and it's obvious to everyone that a 350 grain arrow shot out of the same bow as a 500 grain arrow will shoot much, much faster and at the same poundaage, the KE would remain relatively if not the same.



TFOX 08-10-2008 08:23 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer

ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Thanks, Cooter. I wonder who they think is reading this stuff?

all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum.
All things CAN'T be equal if we're comapring heavy to light. They'd have to be shot at differing draw weights for that to be true.

Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply".
Again....I suppose the fact that the lighter arrow would be traveling faster is a non-issue????????:eek:



Me thinks you guys are over analyzing his statement. He said nothing out of the same bow. It's a very simple example to understand momentum, nothing more.

A heavier arrow traveling at the same speed as a lighter arrow, the heavier arrow will have more momentum and penetrate further.

It's that simple.

Now we can get difficult and it's obvious to everyone that a 350 grain arrow shot out of the same bow as a 500 grain arrow will shoot much, much faster and at the same poundaage, the KE would remain relatively if not the same.
The problem is that most of us CAN NOT get a heavy arrow going the same speed as a lighter one,Apples and oranges.

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:24 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Your average reader is gonna read that and think a 500gr arrow is "better" and is goingto carry more "momentum" than the 350gr (I'm OK using your examples) arrow he's now utilizing.

That is SERIOUSLY misleading.

TFOX 08-10-2008 08:25 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Your average reader is gonna read that and think a 500gr arrow is "better" and is goingto carry more "momentum" than the 350gr (I'm OK using your examples) arrow he's now utilizing.

That is SERIOUSLY misleading.
That is a true statement. When shot out of the same bow.

Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:27 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: TFOX

ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer

ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Thanks, Cooter. I wonder who they think is reading this stuff?

all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum.
All things CAN'T be equal if we're comapring heavy to light. They'd have to be shot at differing draw weights for that to be true.

Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply".
Again....I suppose the fact that the lighter arrow would be traveling faster is a non-issue????????:eek:



Me thinks you guys are over analyzing his statement. He said nothing out of the same bow. It's a very simple example to understand momentum, nothing more.

A heavier arrow traveling at the same speed as a lighter arrow, the heavier arrow will have more momentum and penetrate further.

It's that simple.

Now we can get difficult and it's obvious to everyone that a 350 grain arrow shot out of the same bow as a 500 grain arrow will shoot much, much faster and at the same poundaage, the KE would remain relatively if not the same.
The problem is that most of us CAN NOT get a heavy arrow going the same speed as a lighter one,Apples and oranges.
No Fox it isn't.

It's a very generic example....

Example one, a Mathews Switchback shooting a 350 grain arrow at 280 fps.

Example two, my 82nd shooting a 465 grain arrow at 280 fps.

Which has a great momentum.

It's a very generic statement to understand momentum. Nothing more. We're over thinking these easy to understand statements.

We all know and it's common sense that it can't be out of the same bow, same poundage etc....that's not what I read in that statement at all.

A heavy arrow has more momentum than a lighter arrow traveling at the same speed. It's simple and generic.

Bowtech 360 08-10-2008 08:28 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

I'm usually one of the ones touting D&DH articles....but this recent issue has an article discussing the advantages to a heavy hunting arrow....and the author says this:

"But really, all you need to know about momentum is that, all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum. Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply".

If you're touting heavy arrows over lighter arrows.....what's wrong with these statements?

You are just putting in your own variables, What the author wrote was a fact. You put in varibles such as weight and speed. What he said was a simple way to explain momentum. Of course we all know that a bow wont shoot different weighted arrows at the same speed so this does relate real well to Bowhunting.

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:29 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Rob....Then why didn't he say that?

Anwer this....

How many "average hunters" do you now who utilize different bows with different draw weights for their hunting?

"Average" hunters.

IMO it's SERIOUSLY misleading.

Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:30 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Your average reader is gonna read that and think a 500gr arrow is "better" and is goingto carry more "momentum" than the 350gr (I'm OK using your examples) arrow he's now utilizing.

That is SERIOUSLY misleading.
Not if they have common sense.

If I have one bow, I can't shoot a 500 grain arrow the same speed as a 350 grain arrow with all things being equal.

Misleading to the ignorant yes, anybody with a brain, no. ;)

TFOX 08-10-2008 08:31 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
He clearly states at the same speed,no where does he state 2 different bows.
AND,he says all things being equall.That means same bow imo.

The part that is misleading is that the heavy arrow does not have to be the same speed to have more momentum.As a matter of fact,the heavy arrow will have more momentum than the light arrow out of the same bow.

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:33 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
all things being equal
OK....."equal" is two Mathews Switchbacks at 70#'s.

Same 29" draw length.

Same archer.

You CAN'T shoot the heavier arrow at the same seed as you can the lighter arrow.

LouisianaTomkat 08-10-2008 08:34 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
What is the difference in Momentum and Speed? I am too lazy to look up the definition and I just don't remember.[8D]

LT

Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:36 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
"But really, all you need to know about momentum is that, all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum. Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply".
No where do I read where that says the same bow. I don't determine "all things being equal" as the same bow....more so I'm thinking as in the density of the target, wind, etc...nothing about that statement says same bow to me. I see you read it differently so no use in debating it. I take as as simple statement about momentum and nothing more.



PreacherTony 08-10-2008 08:36 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Speed is velocity

Momentum takes speed and mass in to consideration

Bowtech 360 08-10-2008 08:36 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

all things being equal
OK....."equal" is two Mathews Switchbacks at 70#'s.

Same 29" draw length.

Same archer.

You CAN'T shoot the heavier arrow at the same seed as you can the lighter arrow.

I found the problem here, This guy does not reference arrows or bows at all, he just says objects such as cars and trucks... Read

Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:37 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

all things being equal
OK....."equal" is two Mathews Switchbacks at 70#'s.

Same 29" draw length.

Same archer.

You CAN'T shoot the heavier arrow at the same seed as you can the lighter arrow.
No kidding Jeff, dare I say duh? Isn't that common sense?

I don't read it that way. Sorry. I read as a very generic statement and that everyone is over thinking it. Your not wrong, just over analyzing it. ;)

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:37 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
I did say I read this in D&DH in an article where he's touting heavier arrows over lighter.

I think his intent was to referene archery;)

LouisianaTomkat 08-10-2008 08:38 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Your not wrong, just over analyzing it
Oh I know you didn't.:D

PreacherTony 08-10-2008 08:38 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer

ORIGINAL: GMMAT

all things being equal
OK....."equal" is two Mathews Switchbacks at 70#'s.

Same 29" draw length.

Same archer.

You CAN'T shoot the heavier arrow at the same seed as you can the lighter arrow.
No kidding Jeff, dare I say duh? Isn't that common sense?

I don't read it that way. Sorry. I read as a very generic statement and that everyone is over thinking it. Your not wrong, just over analyzing it. ;)
I'm with you, Rob ... I read it the way you did....

TFOX 08-10-2008 08:39 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Rob,he didn't need to put the same speed analogy in there.That is irrelavant.Momentum doesn't need to be traveling at the same speed to be higher,as you know,so the whole statement is misleading,especially to the ignorant.[8D]

Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:41 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer

"But really, all you need to know about momentum is that, all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum. .
No where do I read where that says the same bow. I don't determine "all things being equal" as the same bow....more so I'm thinking as in the density of the target, wind, etc...nothing about that statement says same bow to me. I see you read it differently so no use in debating it. I take as as simple statement about momentum and nothing more.
Okay guys, if we REALLLLLLLLLLY want to over analyze it. Hell he's not even mentioning ARROWS. IT'S OBJECTS so what the hell are we even debating same bow or different bows for.

Reread it guys.

Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply"
And that statement is as true as they come!

PreacherTony 08-10-2008 08:42 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

I'm usually one of the ones touting D&DH articles....but this recent issue has an article discussing the advantages to a heavy hunting arrow....and the author says this:

"But really, all you need to know about momentum is that, all things being equal, heavier and denser objects traveling at the same speed as lighter objects will have greater momentum. Putting it another way, it is more difficult to stop a heavy arrow, which means it will penetrate more deeply".

If you're touting heavy arrows over lighter arrows.....what's wrong with these statements?
The quote is absolutely true and accurate ........ am I missing something? What is the issue???

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:43 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
So let me get this straight.......

The "average" deer hunter.....reading this article.....is supposed to discern that the ONLY way the author's statement can hold water......is for the same reader to use "common sense" to know that the only way this can be possible.....is for the reader to utilize a different draw weight to propel the heavier arrow the same speed as the lighter arrow?

And this means "all things being EQUAL"?

So for "all things to be equal".....we have to use DIFFERENT draw weights OR a DIFFERENT bow.

Makes sense....:D

RuttNutt 08-10-2008 08:43 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

all things being equal
OK....."equal" is two Mathews Switchbacks at 70#'s.

Same 29" draw length.

Same archer.

You CAN'T shoot the heavier arrow at the same seed as you can the lighter arrow.
The guy does not mean the bow as the "equal", He means arrow speed, target, etc....:eek:

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:45 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Okay guys, if we REALLLLLLLLLLY want to over analyze it. Hell he's not even mentioning ARROWS.
The ENTIRE PREMISE of the article is built around arrows. WHAT ELSE would he be talking about?

Have you read it?:D

PreacherTony 08-10-2008 08:45 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
it says travelling at the same speed ... what the heck is so hard to understand???[X(]

LouisianaTomkat 08-10-2008 08:47 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
mo·men·tum



1.
force or speed of movement; impetus, as of a physical object or course of events: The car gained momentum going downhill.
speedPhysics The rate or a measure of the rate of motion, especially:

Distance traveled divided by the time of travel.
[/ol]
So can somebody explain why one is different from the other? I realize mass is involved to some degree.

LT

Rob/PA Bowyer 08-10-2008 08:48 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Okay guys, if we REALLLLLLLLLLY want to over analyze it. Hell he's not even mentioning ARROWS.
The ENTIRE PREMISE of the article is built around arrows. WHAT ELSE would he be talking about?

Have you read it?:D
Don't need to Jeff, it's a VERY GENERIC statement to understand momentum.

Maybe I'm gifted or something but I totally got the generic statement. ;) [8D]

Bowtech 360 08-10-2008 08:48 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
Ok if you dont understand this, PUT A HELMET ON

GMMAT 08-10-2008 08:49 PM
RE: What's wrong with this POV?
 
So for "all things to be equal".....we have to use DIFFERENT draw weights OR a DIFFERENT bow.

Makes sense....:D


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:49 PM.
Page 1 of 4
1
2
3
Last »
Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page


Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.