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ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Buck walks under your stand as a 1.5 yr old.....2 points on each side.....but a respectable body. Mills around for 10 minutes......and feeds off. You could have killed him with your pocket knife. He sure is dumb.

FF one year....same tree.....same buck walks under your stand and beds down for 20 minutes. He's sportin 3 to a side, now......but the AR's say he's off limits as a 2.5yr old in your zone. Nevertheless.....he's cagey.

FF another year.....same tree.....same buck.....and he's got 4 on both sides, now, as a 3.5 yr old. He's standing underneath you again.

Youre witnessing nothing short of a miracle. This guy's the one you want in your gene pool.....yet he's only fell short of suicide by not helping you sight in your bowand by not applying the 10-ring sticker, provided. Hopefully it's opening day....and he hasn't spread the love, yet. He is a true patriarch of the forest.

Any deer or hunters' feelings hurt in the aforementioned depiction is strictly coincidental....and was not intended.

(I was poking fun;))

In reality....speaking for PA.....Rybo's #3 point back there spelled out the NEED for AR's in HIS STATE, to me. It was a STRONG point.;)

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At 4.5 years old, there is going to be a larger disparity between the “good” gened bucks and the “bad” gened bucks. When push comes to shove (literally) for breeding rights, the good gene bucks will do the lion’s share of the gene passing. So you’ve improved your odds of passing good genes.

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Good genes & bad genes criteria is left SOLELY to the deer and natural selection.

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AND I also (at least where I live) feel that in all but the rarest of occurrences, even a “bad” gene buck, is going to be a whopper if left to mature.

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Jeff there is a lot of assuming there, LOL
I truly wish it was that easy:D

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ORIGINAL: Germ

In KY where I hunt they have a 15'' spread AR.....

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ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

THAT would SUCK!!! is that inside spread? What about Rob bucks?

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ORIGINAL: early in

I'm not swayed by general consensus.[8D]Take two people of average "smarts" who didn't go to collage. They have a child whogrows up and ends up going to collage ("education")and becomes a professional in what ever field. This same person gets married and has his own kids. Don't you thinkhis kids stand a better chance of being smarter than he was when he was going to school?

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ORIGINAL: virginiashadow

I could see the government making regulations that affect public land, but they should stay out of private property matters. If I own private property one day, I can understand having bag limits, but noone should tell me what type of buck I need to shoot.

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ORIGINAL: virginiashadow

And neither does anyone else, but the moment they are on my property and I have a tag, then I should be able to make the decision.

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ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

no logic there .... you don't own those deer ......

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Take two people of average "smarts" who didn't go to collage

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ORIGINAL: Germ

Actually the state does[&:]

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ORIGINAL: early in

PT, you seem to have all the answers today.:eek:Thanks for the poor spelling correction. That doesn't happen often. :D

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I said I could see having bag limits, and by saying I had a tag I am inferring that I am willing to consent to the governments authority over how many bucks/does I can kill. I just do not agree with AR restrictions.

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ORIGINAL: virginiashadow

"why need a tag, VS ... your logic is flawed .. you should be able to shoot what you want, when you want, and how many you want ..... right? "

No, your attempts to instigate are flawed because you are piecemealing my arguments together in a non-linear fashion. I never once said anything in the quote above. I said I could see having bag limits, and by saying I had a tag I am inferring that I am willing to consent to the governments authority over how many bucks/does I can kill. I just do not agree with AR restrictions. Try again.

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ORIGINAL: GMMAT

EI........nah...lol....:D

Ya know....EI....you're not entirely wrong on this.

If that man (the son) married and bore children with a woman of "upper" intelligence capacity.........and their kids did similarly.........then I can see how this could relate to the topic at hand.

Problem is......the buck ain't "real particular" about who he "marries". In an uncontrolled environemnt.....where he could (and will) mate with "any" receptive doe. So.....it's not logical to expect that great of things from them.

BUT....if you COULD control who's he's mating with.....and manage it, strictly.........

.....I believe a deer could be president by the year 2,274.

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Intelligence is passed down throughgenetics over time.

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This thread is a good example of why I never get bored cruising the bowhunting section.

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ORIGINAL: virginiashadow

I do not agree to consent to AR's on private land. It is a philosophical stand I take against the government on alot of issues. Nothing personal, I just think the government (whoever they are) gets too involved in many areas of our lives. Like I said, I agree with bag limits, but not AR's. Bag limitshelp managethe herd, whereas AR restrictions are about growing bigger bucks. Growing bigger bucks should not be an issue that the government has any control over. They should however be concerned and have every right to help increase/reduce the herd based on scientific data, not ego driven policies such as AR's.

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ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Yeah....how much time we talkin......and how many "mulligans" do we get? What happens when an intelligent man marries Paris Hilton? (OK......I admit....I "went there"....in my mind....for a second[8D])

If we could manage the "good" genes in both bucks and does.....and weed out the "bad" genes......

Then........We'd grow 'em JUST LIKE the deer farmers do. Why woudn't we? If we could feed them like the deer farmers.....in the wild....we'd have similar results.

We have to realize.....that not all deer went to "Collage", though. Most are grade school dropouts. Hell we had a deer, here, last year.....that offered to help me drag another one in exchange for safe passage to an oak flat.

Managing deer for "intelligence"?

Are we really discussing this? I think my IQ went down while I was typing.

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Intelligence is passed down throughgenetics over time.

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I remember what this thread is about, and what I'm talking about is AR's eventually leading to bucks being able to have better survival instincts.

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Again......you're in the quicksand....and you've missed every rope thrown your way. Some even told you if you'd go ahead and sink....it would be less painful.

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ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

So you don't think that AR's combined with proper doe management helps to manage the deer herd?

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ORIGINAL: virginiashadow

Sorry Preacher...I'm here at the beach and had to get two of my kids to take a nap...and I fell asleep with them :)

"managing" the herd for what? Antler growth? Or managing the herd to balance the doe/buck ratio?

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Kill less bucks, kill more does seems to be a way without imposing AR's.

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ORIGINAL: Germ

People may not want to here this, but it's fact IMO.
The only way to manage doesis through buck tags system.

Look at the states with liberal buck tags, and then look at their herd dynamics;)
Look at the states with OBR/AR/EAB system, and look at their herd dynamics;)

Which states do you want to hunt;)

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