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ORIGINAL: SteveBNy

BB are not that hard to identify.
Do a graduated fine - x for the 1st, 5x for the 2nd, 10x for 3rd etc.
Hunters would learn quick.

If they do mandatory AR in CNY and allow the slaughter of BB to continue, every antlerless I take on public land will have buttons.
Lots of public land around me and they are not hard to identify.

Steve

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ORIGINAL: bawanajim

His plan is a joke, check the numbers . Our buck harvest has plummeted our doe harvest is way down. Yet the tags are still available. No science is involved .

How many of you want your deer herd decimated ? Our buck harvest was down 20 % last year .W.T.F. It has been steadily declining since numb nuts implemented this plan.
How can we be creating a healthier herd if our goal is to eliminate the herd.
Once again check the results before you applaud the plan.

Just careful what you wish for.you just might get it.[:@]

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ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

Jim .... your issue is more with the doe kill than the antler restrictions, right?

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ORIGINAL: PABuckbuster12

Num Nuts is a great name for that guy. I have several more, but Ill keep them to myself. I'd love to know whos tinkerbells he's tickling to keep the job. The lawmakers have been trying to bail him out, he keeps screwing it up worse! PA is in desperate need of change or, the only thing we are going to have leftto hunt is squirrel and groundhog.

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ORIGINAL: bawanajim

Letting bucks mature in age is a noble goal and I feel most hunters understand that our bucks average age is artificially low because of the sheer number of deer hunters in PA,so yes I agree AR will better our herds health.
But our boy genius has forgotten that to have older bucks you must have younger bucks to grow old.;)

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ORIGINAL: GMMAT

Hey Gary....

Didn't you say that a lot of people would bitch in MI if they got the herd into a good population? You know.....maybe they weren't seeing as MANY deer as they "used to"...but they were seeing "better" bucks?

Is there any chance some of this is occurring in PA?

It's JUST a question, guys.;)

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ORIGINAL: PABuckbuster12

Im going to get off this thread. Before I go home and beat my wife bc the deer population is going down the sh*tter. I wish some of those who argue against AR's and for the crazy amount of doe tags could see what many of us PA hunters are seeing. Then this would be a open and shut thread. O well. I pray they get it in order for everyones sake, including the women at home. ;)

JK about beating the wife thing. REALLY ONLY A JOKE. I can see the police at my house already.[:@]

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Im going to get off this thread. Before I go home and beat my wife bc the deer population is going down the sh*tter.

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ORIGINAL: PABuckbuster12

Im going to get off this thread. Before I go home and beat my wife bc the deer population is going down the sh*tter.

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ORIGINAL: Germ

Jim have you read the book "Deer Wars"?

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ORIGINAL: PreacherTony

Don't you HATE how Bawana ignores questions sometimes?[:@][:-]

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ORIGINAL: mez

I voted against. I echo GMMAT's assesment on the issue. Who am I to tell someone how they can or can't enjoy deer hunting so I will have a chance at a bigger deer. Shoot whatever makes you happy.

If big racks are that important to you there are plenty of avenues to shoot a wallhanger without telling someone else what to shoot.

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ORIGINAL: mez

Who am I to tell someone how they can or can't enjoy deer hunting so I will have a chance at a bigger deer. Shoot whatever makes you happy.

If big racks are that important to you there are plenty of avenues to shoot a wallhanger without telling someone else what to shoot.

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ORIGINAL: kevin1

Exactly why I voted against them, well said Mez.
If you're too lazy to hunt harder or smarter antler restrictions won't help you either, nor will they create a booner behind every tree, all they really do is reduce choice for everyone to pacify an antler obsessed few.

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ORIGINAL: kevin1

Exactly why I voted against them, well said Mez.
If you're too lazy to hunt harder or smarter antler restrictions won't help you either, nor will they create a booner behind every tree, all they really do is reduce choice for everyone to pacify an antler obsessed few.

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ORIGINAL: mez

Who am I to tell someone how they can or can't enjoy deer hunting so I will have a chance at a bigger deer.

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probably 90% of our buck population was made up of 1.5 yr olds....that just ain't normal under any situation.

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ORIGINAL: early in

You wouldn't be telling anybody anything. It's a matter of the LAW telling us what we will be shooting or not be shooting. Reguardless of what we think/believe, all we have to worry about is following the LAW.;)
As far as AR go, I personally think it's the very best thing the PGC has done in aLONG time! I'm seeing more bigger bucks than ever before, no doubt.This gives our bucks a chance to live past 1 1/2.:DWhat needs to happen now,is for them to "close" antlerlessseason in some "counties", andlower the number of available tags in others. This doe situation needs a lot more attention than it's getting. It seems to be too across the board/broad. Attention needs to be paidmore onspecific area's. Counties, not whole WMU's.JMHO

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I'm certianly not going to read 11 pages, but I am 100% all the way for them. While nicer bucks can be a benefit, that isn't the ONLY thing or the biggest reason PA started using them. Our herd was FAR out of whack and had NO age class structure. probably 90% of our buck population was made up of 1.5 yr olds....that just ain't normal under any situation

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ORIGINAL: mez

I understand what you are saying Rob. I can look at it both ways but IMO AR's and QDMA are about growing bigger bucks for people to shoot. I really don't think it has as much to do with a balanced or managed herd as people like to claim. Does anyone know what a balanced or managed herd really is? This all started in Tejas and I've lived there, its about the headgear, not about the herd. They want just enough does tomaintain big racks. The heavily managed or QDMA herds fly the places with helicopters a couple times a yearand photograph every buck on the place. I've seen the pictures and personally know the manager of one of these farms. He shoots a 190 inch deer every year. He shows me about this time of year what deer are going to be taken that season by hunters and the deer that he is going to take. They name the deer by identifying characteristcs seen in the photos and from trail cam photos. They decide prior to the season which bucks are big enough to be killed that year and those that shoot something else are fined. I would be all in favor of QDMA if it really were the herd that everyone had in its best interest.

The QDMA president was quoted in an article last year in Field and Stream regarding an exclusive hunting club in South Carolina I think. There are HEAVY fines for shooting younger, smaller bucks. Members pay a monetary fine as well as having hunting privileges revoked for a certain number of seasons depending on the deer they shot. The QDMA president said that this operation was the absolute Pinnacle of what QDMA was about and what everyone should strive to emulate.I think the guys supporting AR's need to do some research and present some factual evidence as to what consitutes a healthy herd. I also think that they need to distance themselves from the QDMA crowd. The two are not the same and have different goals yet they fall under the same ubrella. QDMA is about the horns plain and simple, the President of the organization stated that in the F&S article. QDMA is a facade for growing bigger deer that I don't and won't support on a wide scale. Leave it behind high fences where it belongs.

If there are too many does, simple, issue fewer buck tags and issue more doe tags, they do this in SD and NE. If having a greater number of mature whitetail bucks in the herd signifies a healthy herd then the AR's should be set up like a slot limit for fish. Deer with 3-4 pts per side can be harvested and anything bigger can not, or say anything over 130 inches. This lets hunters shoot some good deer and keeps the really good deer in the herd. How many of those supporting antler restrictions would gladly be in favor of of letting all the big deer walk policy?

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One constant that always comes up in these threads is the I'm seeing more and bigger bucks than ever before. Do more and bigger bucks signify a healthy population or just give those that like to shoot big deer more enjoyment out of the sport?

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The QDMA president was quoted in an article last year in Field and Stream regarding an exclusive hunting club in South Carolina I think. There are HEAVY fines for shooting younger, smaller bucks. Members pay a monetary fine as well as having hunting privileges revoked for a certain number of seasons depending on the deer they shot. The QDMA president said that this operation was the absolute Pinnacle of what QDMA was about and what everyone should strive to emulate.

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probably 90% of our buck population was made up of 1.5 yr olds....that just ain't normal under any situation.

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ORIGINAL: mez

I know you don't agree with the guy Germ, most people that are truly into managing deer do not. That is why I think the term QDMA should only be used by those that buy into the growing and shooting big bucks.

How would issuing fewer buck tags not work? Not work as to what goal, managing the deer or having more big deer?
Poaching hasn't increased in any of the areas that I hunt where they issue fewer tags.

We do have a size limit on walleye here, a slot. 15-18 inches goes back. You can only keep one over 18. Limit of 4 per day.

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People are against letting people kill small bucks but are for hunting elephants....interesting. I thought we are supposed to allow people to hunt how they like and not infringe on their freedom of choice.

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ORIGINAL: rybohunter

It goes beyond shooting small bucks. What is wrong with trying to manage for a proper age structure?

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ORIGINAL: rybohunter
Our herd was FAR out of whack and had NO age class structure. probably 90% of our buck population was made up of 1.5 yr olds....

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