Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I find it fascinating that people who claim to be "mature buck" hunters would forego a "more" mature animal.......for one with more rack size....but who is less "mature" in age structure. I'm not condemning the practice.....just saying I find it "fascinating".

"Might" the reason for this be......that "age structure" is the "great equalizer" when it comes to hunting "mature bucks"?

I mean.....a man in FL can target 3.5+yr old deer ......and in his mind.....he's leveled the playing field withhis compadrefrom IL.

Does this "leveling" of the playing field rub "some" the wrong way?

Curious at to your thoughts on this.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

WHoa.....That is kinda hard to read with all of the "____" on every other word! I caught "myself" reading it the way "Chandler Bing" from TV show "Friends" talks! LOL! :D:D:D:D:D

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Don't hate me because I can punctuate, BHF (find another reason).;)

And you watched that show?

Hand over the man card.[8D]

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

GMMAT does that so you don't get it "twisted" or "spun".;):D:D

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Well "W" "T" "F":D

It's the entire look, not just the rack;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

If you're really that petty that you have to stoop to this......please just refrain from posting on my threads.

Please.;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

You still havent answered (or in some cases, attempted to) the question.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I would think in the 1 buck states, a lot of hunters want a mature deer AND a high score..... And by passing a mature deer with a low score may give them that chance.....

I've passed several mature bucks that didn't have squat for score on properties where I'm only allowed one buck... I did that b/c I know there is a good chance I can kill a deer with both attributes.....

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Last I checked the threads belong to HNI, so they belong to all of us.;)[8D]

To your point, I honestly don't believe that the hunter in FL is hunting on the same playing field as the hunter in IL if they are both hunting 3.5 year old deer. The reason for that is in FL there is far lesshospitable habitat to support whitetailsland and the bag limits are incredibly liberal (a buck a day last I checked). Whereas in IL the habitat is much more conducive to holding and supporting whitetails and the bag limits are far more stringent allowing for more 3.5 year olds to grow.

That doesn't make the 3.5 year old buck any less difficult to hunt, but you have more opportunity to trip one up if there are more of them around.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

The property thatI hunt, it is at least a4 1/2yo regardless of what is on his head!!!! Thats the name of the game there, I knew it when I opted to lease the place and that is the way it will be, regardless if it is a 110" 4 1/2yo or a 140" 4 1/2yo.....They are both shooters on our place, I had a hard time last year passing a high 130's 3 1/2yo (would be the best deer I have shot to date) but in a couple years it will be worth letting him go.

If I was hunting a different place my standards would be different I am sure but I chose to hunt this place!!!

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Noted;)

I'm betting that isn't a very popular opinion, to some, though.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I saw a poster once in the Church Library...

"What is right is not always popular; what is popular is not always right." ;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I think double creek hit the nail right no the head. I believe that the majority of these "mature" buck hunters are hunting in areas where they typically have a higher percentage of getting shots at mature animals every year. From what i have noticed, most of the "mature" buck hunters are from states known for larger more mature bucks. That being said, i believe that they feel that their chances are still high if they pass on an "inferior" mature buck that they will see a better one. I know that where i hunt, i might only have one maybe 2 chances a year at a mature animal, so he is getting shot any chance i get.

Going down the same road but with a slighly different spin on it, toss this around for a minute.Hypothetically, say you are hunting a specific animal that you have a history with ( for example- Mr. Mass, The Bull if he were still alive) and he came by with part of his rack busted off, would everyone here still take the shot. God knows i would.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

So would I. He wasn't any smarter with the other side.;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I don't;)and that's the way I like it[8D]

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Well said. As I noted in the "How Popular Do You Think You Are?" thread I didn't care about popularity in high school so I sure as hell don't care about it now.

The fact is the scales are tipped in your example to the hunters in IL pursuing 3.5 year old bucks. However, that gets back to the "L" word debate so let's not go there.;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

But BRY it goes even further. Even though we both know what you said (RE: the IL hunter) is true.....I STILL think it rubs a lot of guys from the big buck states the wrong way when people speak as if the age structure of the bucks they're (both)hunting (being ne and the same)somehow levels the playing field.

Do you disagree?

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Leave IL out of this. Wisconsin has more big bucks than IL. Hell, they even have GregH.[8D]

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Yeah....but I've seen that little IL patch he hunts. I think we got it JUST right;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Nope. Everyone likes to think they are good at what they do. In the deer hunting world shooting big bucks equals being a good hunter in many people's eyes. Nobody likes to hear that even though they've got a wall full of nice bucks they aren't accomplishing as much as they'd like to think.

That is exactly what the location argument does.

I do believe that one benefit the guys in the big buck states have over those of us that don't have as much exposure to older deer is that since they have more mature bucks around they can learn from their exposure to those deer and the mistakes they make from them. If you see say seven 3.5 year old deer a season you will learn just from being around those deer. You will know how they act/react and be better able to predict their behavior than someone who may only see one 3.5 year old every 2 years.

So, in effect having more big bucks around does have the potential to make you a better hunter so long as you have the aptitude to learn from what you are seeing in the woods. Some have that and some don't, regardless of where they live.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

There's alot of truth to that. I LOVE that squint that a mature buck has. I think it looks bad ass! It's almost a "don't even think about it" look.:D:D

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

There is one on my wall, Huntinson seen it. The rack does not even break 100, ask him what he thought when I showed him the picture;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I have to agree with a lot of what HuntingBry has said. Its a lot easier for me to pass up a 3 1/2 year old because I know that I will see another one the next time I sit down. In his post he said something about seeing 7 deer that are 3 1/2 in a year. I will have at least one and probably several when I see that many in a day.

-john

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Good for you, man......that is awesome.:)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

"Who" "cares", hunt for yourself. If someone elses legal hunting methods "rub" you the wrong way you either have too much time on your hands, or you are hunting for the wrong reasons.If I say I will only shoot 7 year old Booner's with double throat patches than so be it. If another type of deer catches my interest on a particular day, so be it. Who cares? I dont understand how any of that could ever cause a moments concern to anyone but me.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Rub the wrong way wouldn't be the way I describe it, but it does tend to get old.

The "defensive" attitiudes and convictions in trying to sell this concept is what I findfascinating from a philosophical point of view. It just ain't likely to happen with the masses.

It is like trying to compare thechampion feather weight boxer to a champion heavy weight. The feather weight may have trained twice as hard and be three times more 'sound" mechanically in his skills, and may be the absolute "best" in his woods, but in most circles, he will never get the accolades that the heavy weight champion is going to get. Right or wrong, that is how the world operates.

Sames as a smaller Division II football player. How many times have we all heard references about a certain DII player that go like "Pound for pound, _______ is the hardest hitting player I have ever seen." This may be a true assessment, but the kid still won't be playing in the Rose Bowl come New Years.:D

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Jeff, I can only say that I would take a big rack over a worn jawbone any day in any state. Not being smartazz, just the way it is.
Some of us see a big deers rack as a form of art by nature.
I have never seen a deer jawbone collection on anyones walls, even in Florida.

Try this next Whitetail Deer show you go to, Take the jawbone from the 4 1/2 year old you taged and start showing it to people and tell them what a trophy it was without a picture and see what reaction you get, they will be pushing people out of the way to get away from you.

Its all about how much bone is one their head (allways has been, allways will be), and to most, has nothing to do with how old they are.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I'd say you're easily "fascinated". Perhaps you should buy yourself a slinky (It walks down stairs alone or in pairs):eek:

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

How do you tell a 3.5 year old from a 4.5 year old? That's a pretty tough distinction to make in the field under hunting conditions.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I don't begrudge anyone their view on this, Sliver.

We all know it's more than a "jawbone", though. What if you'd only shot 2.5yr old 130" deer? You sure couldn't claim to be a "mature" buck hunter, could you? But the guy shooting the 100"'ers with the "jawbones" might could.

It's only a different mindset. Never said one was right.

Hey don't take this the wrong way....because it isn't intended to say anything about you.....but the more I hunt deer.....the more I find I respect the guys who DO put age structure before " of antler. It may very well be because of where I'm from. I don't know. But I think someone else said that it won't always be the popular view. That's OK.

Thanks for the reply.

And Hillbilly.....Don't make fun of me because I can read and write. It's not becoming;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

I'm really interested in knowing how people can look at a buck from a treestand 25 yards away and know with certainty whether he is 3.5 or 4.5 years old? Anybody can pick out the 1.5 year olds and 2.5 year olds, but once they hit 3.5 they all look mature to me (at least on TV - I don't think I've ever seen a 3.5 year old buck in Michigan, except at the zoo).

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Someone mentioned shooting a buck with a broken rack. Here is an example of that. Our place is not high fenced but we do share one fence line with a high fence. We were working around the place and saw the buck hang his antler in the fence and break it off while still in velvet. I saw the buck probably 10 times while hunting. He was 3 1/2 then. Fast forward one year. His right side was 1/2 of a typical 10, but his left side still showed the affects of the damage from the year before. It had a brow tine, a funny 3 to 5 inch kicker off the back of the rack and then just the big split. I had decided to shot him, but when I got the chance he had again damaged his left antler, so after a lot of thought I decided to let him go. With out the damage I think he would have been a typical 10 point and on this place we really don't have that many. Most of ours are slick 8's. He was put on the don't shot list for the year with the hopes that we would help from the management side of the world. Turns out that at the end of season another hunter in a low light situation confused him with another buck and shot him, but at least he got though the rut. I don't regret my decision. With a complete set of antlers I would have shot him, without I let him walk. I also included a pic of the buck that I did shoot. He was aged at 4 1/2.

-john

Buck before breaking his antler.



Buck after damage.



Buck I took instead.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Being 99% of are looking at the rack it's pretty dam hard[8D]

it's only a guess, looking at your deer in the avatar I would guess 3.5.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Unless you have a history with him, q.....I don't know, either (for SURE).

But for my purposes (and it seems a LOT of others)....as long as I know he's 3.5.....I don't care if he's 3.5 or 10.;)

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

qzq38b in our neck of the woods the deer are fairly hard to age, but I cheat and have game cameras out. I have been fairly lucky at finding the same backs over multiple years which really helps with the aging.

-john

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Who's that??



You're right...not2 bad a t'all

:eek:;):D

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Germ, that deer in my avatar was killed in Adams county Illinois and weighed damn near 300 pounds on the hoof. But he'd be lucky to gross 120". Honeslty, when I shot him, I never even noticed his body size - I was just fixated on his rack.

I never had him aged, so I have no idea how old he was. He could have been 4.5 with a small rack, or 2.5 with a huge body. Who knows how old he was?

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Comparatively (to you;))...I'd say I did "OK".

Your M.O. form the political forum precedes you. Stick around. This place can be fun, too.

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Yep who knows, and from the looks of him who cares[8D] He is a pig!!!!

RE: Mature buck "Age structure" the "Great Equalizer"?
 

Roger that!

I don't know if I've ever seen theentire deer in that photo.

Congrats.;)