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Elephants
I wasn’t sure if I should post this here, but I decided to, because I know that many bowhunters are true nature lovers and respect the animals they hunt.
I respect other hunters’ decisions about what they hunt and what they don’t hunt and this isn’t meant to be preachy on this topic. But I could never hunt elephants, because of some of the things I have found out about their high level of intelligence and sensitivity (like the “funeral rites” they perform when a member of the herd dies, their greeting other elephants they have not seen in a decade or more, etc.). But I have never seen anything like this. Apparently elephants can be taught to paint. And I don’t mean random paint strokes. The link below shows a video of an elephant painting a self portrait of itself holding a flower...and the painting isn’t half bad. The elephant in the video link is the only elephant that has gone beyond just painting copies of pictures they are presented with by their keepers and paints what it wants to (which is a series of self-portraits). When I saw this video, I had to check to see if this was for real or some faked video. I checked it out on snopes.com (a great website, by the way), and snopes confirmed that this is for real. http://www.snopes.com/photos/animals/elephantpainting.asp Again, let me stress that I know that there are probably people on this forum who hunt elephants, and I respect their decision to do so. But I just had to share this video with a group of folks who I know loves nature and respects the animals they hunt. |
RE: Elephants
I too could notharvest a Elephant. I think they doharvest so many to keep the herd in check and to feed the people. They are a awsome animal!!
Hatchet Jack |
RE: Elephants
Elephants are really smart but don't be fooled by the paintings.
They are trained, one stroke at a time to draw the elephants and flowers. I've seen a bunch of those videos and in the ones where the elephants are still learning, you can see the trainer guiding the elephants movements. (usually by touching the elephants mouth and tongue.) Elephants when on their own with a brush and paint make simple, random marks. No self portraits, no flowers. Those are also Asian elephants which are not hunted anyhow. |
RE: Elephants
Christine,
Point taken regarding original artistic expression. But, as you said, they are very intelligent animals. And they are one of only a few species (humans, apes and dolphins are the only others that we know of) who can recognize themselves in a mirror (most other animals think they are looking at another animal) (http://www.livescience.com/animals/061030_elephant_mirror.html). Wild elephantsalso engage in "funeral rites" when a member of a pack dies, especially calves. The elephants gather together and sway back and forth and "sing". And, years later, when a mother elephant passes by the place where a calf died on their long migrations, wll stop and perform a brief version of the "funeral rite" again. This is not taught behavior. They do this in the wild. Here is an exerpt from an article on the topic: "When an elephant dies, its family members engage in intense mourning and burial rituals, conducting weeklong vigils over the body, carefully covering it with earth and brush, revisiting the bones for years afterward, caressing the bones with their trunks, often taking turns rubbing their trunks along the teeth of a skull’s lower jaw, the way living elephants do in greeting." And, wild elephants will also perform these rights for humans, even when they are killed by elephants, the only other animal they do this for: "After killing a villager, the elephants took his body and treated it to the same careful funeral rites as they would give to one of their own. When a group of villagers from Katwe went out to reclaim the man’s body for his family’s funeral rites, the elephants refused to budge. Human remains, a number of researchers have observed, are the only other ones that elephants will treat as they do their own. " |
RE: Elephants
Paintings aside, I would have to say that the "funeral rites" and greetings make it clear they have respect for others of the species. That is more than can be said for some of our species.
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RE: Elephants
I'll double lung an elephant just give me the opportunity. Huckellberry, how about a free trip????:D
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RE: Elephants
Biggest creature on earth? land mammal anyway.....
when I was younger I couldn't imagine hunting a elephant, certainly don't have any plans to in the near future either, but I certainly plan to hunt africa, after that I think I'll have a much better idea about it. Seeing a few hunts on tv though, really got me charged up, seeing a huge bull charge to 15yds or less. I think we should be culling tuskless males, from what I saw on discorvery, theyre more aggressive/dangerous, since no tusks....going up against males with tusks they need to be. So that bad temper causes more human conflicts....also elephants are overpopulated in many areas where they exist, destroying entire forests in their wake. The tuskless have come about, due to the big bulls w/ tusks were most sought after, kinda selective breeding on the human part. I've read somewhat on the ivory trade, and I believe some ivory hunters killed, 10's of thousands of elephants which is completely staggering. Personally I see it as being one intimidating hunt, talk about a creature that can kill you, no room for error in that scenario. Also if you care about the Big 5 or 6, you'll need to take one. As far as elephants painting etc...., that doesn't make me more in love with elephants, everyone loves elephants, I believe its the #1 most loved animal on earth, in most studies. Also makes me wonder why an enclosed elephant has learned to paint? Zoos may be nice for us to see these wild animals, though I wouldn't say they necessarily enjoy it. Seems like prison to me. So my perspective on elephant hunting is probably in my mind the "hunt itself"being the "trophy" as opposed to the end game/kill. More so than other hunts.... So maybe one day..... maybe in 15yrs I'll post some pictures..... |
RE: Elephants
You may not have seen one.....or even gotten shed tusks....but there could be one lurking in your hunting area.
I carry a 50LB sack of peanuts in my pack......just in case;) |
RE: Elephants
I thought that was for the kids on the playground Jeff.[:-]
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RE: Elephants
Ghost Elephants. :D
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RE: Elephants
Probably one outside hiding under the patio right now.
If you read and study more, and commit yourself 100% to putting yourself where the ghost-elephant lurks, it's only a matter of time before you make it happen. |
RE: Elephants
Fran:
If you're not seeing them....then you don't want it enough....and you aren't willing to make the sacrifices needed to find them. Now I want someone to PROVE to me that there isn't one in their woods. It's possible (King...get out the calculator) that one escaped from B&B/Ringling Bros. in the 40's and has mated with one in captivity (through the bars).....carried the young out....and they're (this group) living in your woods RIGHT NOW in ever-loving pac-hermitdome bliss. How bad do you wanna it? Africa - Smafrica. Get it done in your own back yard! They're there! |
RE: Elephants
I'd go elephant (real) hunting in a heart beat. Someone willing to but up the thousands of $ for the tag for me? ;)
And jsut to show how PC I really am....... if it were legal I would go dolphin (flipper) hunting tomorow if I could. Talk about an over populated animal, at least here on the Florida gulf coast. I bet the taste good too.  |
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RE: Elephants
Yes, they are amazingly powerful (and dangerous) creatures.
And I understand why they need to be culled in certain circumstances. I just would not get any joy out of doing it, so I leave it for others to do this necessary work. And, if it brings them pleasure, then it's a win-win (except for the elephants who get killed, I suppose, although I am sure the heard and local populations of people are probably better off in the long run). I just thought I'd share some of the magnificence of these amazing creatures with other nature lovers. DropTine, do you have a link to anyof those land-clearing videos. I'd love to see those! bigbulls: I have to say, I've never heard about the negative impact of dolphin populations. And I really like dolphins. And tehy seem to really like people. I go sea kayaking and the come up and look at me and play around me, etc. Very fun, joyful animals whose joy I think is contagious. When you say they are overpopulated, what do you mean? |
RE: Elephants
bigbulls: I have to say, I've never heard about the negative impact of dolphin populations. And I really like dolphins. And tehy seem to really like people. I go sea kayaking and the come up and look at me and play around me, etc. Very fun, joyful animals whose joy I think is contagious. When you say they are overpopulated, what do you mean? They have literally learned to target boats and piers for easy meals. Day after day after day dolphins will hang around a pier or follow a boatwaiting for a hook up and catchthe now slow moving fish that you have on the endof your line and eat everything but the head. I watch them all the time teaching their young to do this year after year. It doesn't matter if it is a snook, snapper, grouper, or a 50 pound King Mac they get it and hold on to it until until it is all gone and you pull up a head. They literally hear the line buzzing through the water and will come from East and West directly to the fish on the end of your line. Picture that you are hunting and you shoot a 150" deer only to have a pack of wolves rush out from behind your treestand and devour it before you ever get down from your tree. Do this several times a year with deer from does to big bucks. Yep, they are beautiful and wonderful to watch when you aren't hunting. Same thing happens to your family members and hunting buddies. They hear a truck pull up to the field and they come a running waiting on you to make an easy kill for them. |
RE: Elephants
How do you judge a trophy elephant? Age? Score? How do you score an elephant? What do you think the most mature elephant in your woods is? Can I use a Rage? Which bow would be best? How high should I set the trail camera to get good pictures on an elephant trail? Does location really matter?
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RE: Elephants
ORIGINAL: rybohunter Ghost Elephants. :D I hear they taste like chicken;) How do you judge a trophy elephant? Age? Score? How do you score an elephant? What do you think the most mature elephant in your woods is? Can I use a Rage? Which bow would be best? How high should I set the trail camera to get good pictures on an elephant trail? Does location really matter? Probably one outside hiding under the patio right now. If you read and study more, and commit yourself 100% to putting yourself where the ghost-elephant lurks, it's only a matter of time before you make it happen. |
RE: Elephants
I saw show with guys shooting giant bulls with crossbows. It seems that when they reach a certain age, their molars disappear and they cannot eat, and eventually starve. Thes guys where dropping these giant from 30 yards in front of them and putting the bolt in his brain, which is a very small area to shoot.
Sad but humane |
RE: Elephants
"You may not have seen one.....or even gotten shed tusks....but there could be one lurking in your hunting area.
I carry a 50LB sack of peanuts in my pack......just in case;)" Brilliant! hahahaha! |
RE: Elephants
Although I have no desire to hunt elephants, I'm glad the possibility is out there for those who choose to.
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RE: Elephants
What's the point of posting a thread stating you couldn't shoot X animal? Seems to me your on a crusade to get others to do the same. :eek:
Prosperity is a tough thing to live with. That statement isproventrue enoughwhen you compare the poor African to the affluent American.It's a product of a country. If ya don't want them shot I'm sure the African government will be willing to go along with anyone, just pony up the cash needed to replace what they get for them hunted. It's a product, a renewable resource like corn. The intelligence of either is irrelevant unless it can be sold/used for the public's goodsuch as the way Hannibal of old used them, andI am in no way advocating irresponsible behavior so don't go there. The fact that they're not stupid makes them a desirable animal to hunt although many (and some here) have claimed their big dumb animals that just stand there to be shot with cannons.:D How do you know that elephants know themselves in a mirror, do they fix there hair or check to see if their butts are getting bigger?:D |
RE: Elephants
ORIGINAL: MountainHunter But I could never hunt elephants, because of some of the things I have found out about their high level of intelligence and sensitivity (like the “funeral rites” they perform when a member of the herd dies, their greeting other elephants they have not seen in a decade or more, etc.). Perhaps elephants have "funeral rites" because the rest of them will not be killed and eaten by the lions/crocodiles/leopard/cheetah/etc. that killed the one that died ;). |
RE: Elephants
I would shoot an elephant... But there are some people I wouldn't think twice about whacking either.
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RE: Elephants
nodog: What's the point of posting a thread stating you couldn't shoot X animal? Seems to me your on a crusade to get others to do the same. The point, as I said in my original post, and I repeated in another post, was to share a wonder of nature with people I thought would appreciate it. And, as I also said: I understand why they need to be culled in certain circumstances. I just would not get any joy out of doing it, so I leave it for others to do this necessary work. And, if it brings them pleasure, then it's a win-win (except for the elephants who get killed, I suppose, although I am sure the heard and local populations of people are probably better off in the long run). I just thought I'd share some of the magnificence of these amazing creatures with other nature lovers. nodog: How do you know that elephants know themselves in a mirror, do they fix there hair or check to see if their butts are getting bigger? Actually, you’re closer than you might think. What they do is they put a mark over each eye with some sort of crayon/marker or somesuch. One of the marks is clear and the other is colored. Then, later, they put a mirror in front of the elephant, and the elephants touch their trunks to only the colored mark (not the clear one), rubbing it, etc., trying to figure out what it is and to get it off. This means they know that they are looking at their reflection. |
RE: Elephants
brucelanthier: Just so I understand: The animals that you do hunt, do you hunt them because they are not intelligent and sensitive like elephants? Do you hunt deer because they are stupid, insensitive and cannot paint pictures? It’s a bit more complicated than that, and I won’t go into details here. But, it’s against my spiritual beliefs to kill something that I believe has above a certain level of consciousness (or that I think might have a conscience), unless it’s in self defense or in order to prevent myself from starving, etc. I don’t believe deer or turkeys are at that level. And deer are real nuisance in Virginia, where I live, and they taste really good. I understand that elephants are a real nuisance, and in some cases a danger, where they live, but I don’t live there. I also don’t know if they are good to eat. And I think there is a possibility that they have a level of consciousness that they might have developed a conscience. The funeral rights, and some of their other behavior indicate to me that this is a real possibility, so I don’t want to hunt them myself. I understand the need to hunt them in certain circumstances and respect the rights and desires of others who choose to hunt them legally in those circumstances. As I said, I think it’s a win-win situation where there’s a need and a desire to do something that needs to be done. I just don’t have the desire (or the money) to do this thing. There are plenty of people who do, and that’s great for them. |
RE: Elephants
Few things ive noticed....really how do we or can one really tell if they have a conscience or not? They certainly are a nusence in some areas, and I believe almost all of the meat is used by local villages who are rarely eating meat, so certainly a good source of nutrition to them.
I don't see any moral problem with taking an elephant vs a deer etc...because they may or may not have a conscience, isnt' thta what they claim seperates humans from anaimals, animals operate on purely instincts vs, thinking/rational? personally I think humans are just another animal on the face of the earth, most likely the most intelligent I would argue to say. I do hear time and time again about hunters who are "less fortunate" than those "more fortunate". While some may be born with more to start etc...at some point there comes a time when you're responsible for yourself and youre own future and well being. If it was only money that one saught money is certainly possible to make. I think its much more easy to put down someone who's wealthier as being born with a silver spoon, than it is to admit that maybe they worked harder/smarter than the guy who simply takes his 9-5 job and makes his 50k/year. If my goal in life was to hunt elephants in africa and I need to make 100k/year to do so, I would do so, not be miserable for not having the money to and put those who can down for being able to. Now I don't live in lala land either, and I know its possible, but never said easy, but with the drive and knowledge/plan to earn money, you certainly are able to make agreat living in this country. I really think most americans are content and happy just kinda living in life, not really striving for more, they're happy enough with the family and friends, and their salary, and have accepted the fact that they will never hunt elephants, because they simply are content with where they stand in society and where that place is, is one that doesnt allow them to hunt elephants. |
RE: Elephants
All animals have traits and personalities. All are unique in there own way. But it is our job to manage the population of some, in order to keep the population healthy. Hunting and trapping are sports, but to me its a job. One which I realy enjoy,and if I can resolve an animal conflict without killing anything I do so. Sometimes I do need to put animals down, It is also part of the job. I think it would take a strong stomach to kill an elephant, but its gotta be done sometimes Im sure.
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RE: Elephants
People need to use the search feature
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RE: Elephants
There's a lot of speculation here-much of it based upon emotion ("I also don’t know if they are good to eat. And I think there is a possibility that they have a level of consciousness that they might have developed a conscience. The funeral rights, and some of their other behavior indicate to me that this is a real possibility"). If I teach a parrot torepeat words,does it have a higher level of consciousness? Could it defend me in a court of law?Perhaps it's merely repeat/learned behavior? I would love to see an elephant save its money, deposit that moneyin a bank account for the future, jump on a plane, fly to the US, and hunt me. Then I would agree. If you don't want to play, stay on the porch. Let the folks with all the facts manage things.
Salukipv1 and Furgitter...good posts. |
RE: Elephants
How easy would it be to substitute the word "elk" with "elephant"? Read on:
SEQUIM, Wash. (AP) - Tired of dealing with an elk herd that roams around this small Olympic Peninsula town - sometimes leaving destruction in its wake - state officials and some residents are pushing the idea of building a multimillion dollar fence (something they have already done in parts ofAfrica)to keep the big animals out. About 60 Roosevelt elk - the largest kind - live around Sequim, a scenic community popular with tourists. The animals have become part of the town's picturesque landscape, with the herd often grazing in hills overlooking the town. But the elk also have been known to damage crops of nearby farmers (and many of the farmers as well-remember substitute elk with elephant. Feel free to Google "elephant kills farmer"). "They are like tanks," resident Roger Blume said at a town meeting Wednesday. "They leave huge destruction in their wake ... and they are not a wild herd" anymore. It cost around $100,000 a year in staff and other expenses to manage the herd, said Jack Smith, a regional manager for the state Department of Fish and Wildlife. The state and the Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe manage the herd. State officials have begun leading the idea of the fence. Cost estimates range from $1.5 million to $4 million, depending on length, and purchases of private property. The fence could be between 3 and 9 miles long, designed to keep the elk south of U.S. Highway 101. State and town officials discussed the proposal with about 40 residents at the town meeting. Not everyone is sold on the idea. "We can't put a fence across the Peninsula," Sequim Councilwoman Susan Lorenzen said. "They're going to get out somehow." Instead of sinking millions of dollars into a fence, Lorenzen said, "We could protect the crops somehow. We could reimburse the farmers that have crop damage and call it a day." The elk have been an issue for years. The herd's current population is down from about 130 five years ago. Management techniques used by the state and tribe have included issuing more hunting permits and relocation of some of the animals, such as the 17 moved east to the Dosewallips area in 1995. In 2006, the state and tribe proposed moving the entire herd, but the outcry from residents quickly killed the plan. Last year, former Mayor Walt Schubert suggested thinning the local elk herd and giving the meat to food banks; that idea wasn't popular either. Frank Roach, who likes to watch the elk herd visit his nearby farm, suggested a different perspective. "Should we have fenced out developers?" he asked, to laughter and applause. "We've got to take a look at what we're doing in the whole area," Roach said. "I urge you to stop and think about good management," of growth, water and wildlife, "so we can all live together." I say give us Bow Hunters an Open Season and No Limit! I would waste a week of my vacation hunting down those trouble makers and I would even donate 1/2 of the meat from the animals to the Food Banks to feed the needy! I like this one: http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_2003426,00.html And they say elephants can't learn new tricks. They just stand there now while being stoned! |
RE: Elephants
I stayed out to this point, and haven't read the whole thread, but based on what I've heard elsewhere, including the opinions of a couple of PH's in Africa, I'm not real sure that archery gear is the best option for elephants. Then again it may not be the best option for MANY animals, however, MOST animals can be sufficiently mortally wounded resulting in quick, humane kills with archery gear as long as it is specifically designed/tailored to the animal being hunted. Elephants however becomes a bit more difficult than say giraffe or even water buffalo merely because of their size.
Howard Hill DID IT, but he also was shooting a SPEAR more or less at the elephants he killed. His BH alone I believe weighed over 2# (1700grains is actually about 2.4 POUNDS!!!!) and I'd have to believe the "arrow" was very likely travelling at a very LOW velocity, I'd bet under 100fps if I were a betting man, but certainly MOMENTUM would've been pretty significant with such and arrow. But Howard Hill was a true, genuine, "One of a kind!!!" Pete Shepley did it, twice, both times the animals travelled significant distances, one, the first, reported to have gone between 5 and 6 miles before it finally died. Sorry, but if I put a "good" shot on an animal and it travels that far before finally dying, I'm questioning the lethality and how HUMANE my equipment choice is. While certainly the population of elephants NEEDS to be hunted to keep it in check, and the African villages benefit greatly from these "hunts (also heard both PH's elsewhere say there really isn't much "hunt" to and elephant "hunt.")," I'm not 100% sure I like the idea of hunting elephants with archery equipment. Now this isn't a PETA stance by any means, for those who want to try and jump on that bandwagon, it's a stance developed from the standpoint that if we aren't humanely killing the animals we hunt, we're going to be MORE likely to be getting more PETA attacks. Pete Shepley should've been smart enough to edit out some video and not mention that the elephant he killed went 5-6miles, and he shouldn't have thrown a fit like a little kid when the PH wanted to put a finisher bullet in "his" elephant either, but he did. Pete is known to push the limit, and he IS a great archer, but the elephant fiasco and his "86yd shot on a walking Mule Deer," are the type of things that do not do us, as hunters, any favors in the eyes of ARA, and may even sway a few fence-riding opinions against us. Whatever we do or say as hunters is, sometimes unfortunately, representative of ALL hunters in the eyes of the non-hunters.  |
RE: Elephants
Doug,
Teressa Groenewald (A woman)did it with a single arrow and the bull traveled 500 yards before expiring... Not much of a hunt you say? It took her 8-9 days to get hers... The problem as I see it, you cite onecase where a man did kill an elephant (with/without an arrow-based upon opinion), and another where a man had a bad experience killinghis first of two. I, on the other hand,can cite manymore where elephants were kill effectivelywith no issues whatsoever (Richardo Longloria comes to mind, as well as Gary Bogner. Both are superior archers, not unlike Howard Hill, and both areambassadors of the sport-they've learned to check their egos). So then, there are indeed many to prove your point otherwise.Without knowing all the facts, can you honestly say you were thereto witnessed Pete's "good" shot? Where exactly did he hit the mammoth? Is it possible he hit it back alittle? Things happen... on those things big or small. Seriously, how many deer/bear/elk/moose/antelope/boar to you think have been hit and were recovered great distances from the shot? Do you question the lethality andyour equipment choice here? Do we ban a proven tool because things happen? I would love the opportunity to shoot my 84 lb X-Force through an elephant. I'm confident the bow can handle the task. I'm confident I can handle the task! I am also responcible enough to finish the job with a rifle is things go wrong. I would exercise this samerespect for any animal I hunt! Again, I wish I had ten dollars for everytime someone told me I couldn't do it with archery gear. For the record, I hate hearsay. A PH, on my last trip,told me I would be lucky if I shot one animals with my bow. I came home with eight.This "professional"obviously knew more about bow hunting than me... |
RE: Elephants
ORIGINAL: iamyourhuckleberry Doug, Teressa Groenewald (A woman)did it with a single arrow and the bull traveled 500 yards before expiring... Not much of a hunt you say? It took her 8-9 days to get hers... The problem as I see it, you cite onecase where a man did kill an elephant (with/without an arrow-based upon opinion), and another where a man had a bad experience killinghis first of two. I, on the other hand,can cite manymore where elephants were kill effectivelywith no issues whatsoever (Richardo Longloria comes to mind, as well as Gary Bogner. Both are superior archers, not unlike Howard Hill, and both areambassadors of the sport-they've learned to check their egos). So then, there are indeed many to prove your point otherwise.Without knowing all the facts, can you honestly say you were thereto witnessed Pete's "good" shot? Where exactly did he hit the mammoth? Is it possible he hit it back alittle? Things happen... on those things big or small. Seriously, how many deer/bear/elk/moose/antelope/boar to you think have been hit and were recovered great distances from the shot? Do you question the lethality andyour equipment choice here? Do we ban a proven tool because things happen? I would love the opportunity to shoot my 84 lb X-Force through an elephant. I'm confident the bow can handle the task. I'm confident I can handle the task! I am also responcible enough to finish the job with a rifle is things go wrong. I would exercise this samerespect for any animal I hunt! Again, I wish I had ten dollars for everytime someone told me I couldn't do it with archery gear. For the record, I hate hearsay. A PH, on my last trip,told me I would be lucky if I shot one animals with my bow. I came home with eight.This "professional"obviously knew more about bow hunting than me... Nah, I wouldn't think so, not on here, maybe on reefer.com, but not here. Bill, William, ???? Not sure, but I'm not saying it cannot be done, but I am saying that it's not going to be an easy task, and if we feel we need a rifle for back-up in case things go awry, then maybe we just need to use a rifle in the first place. I've never felt like I would need a rifle/pistol etc, for any deer or elk I went after, though I did carry a pistol in bear country in CO, just in case I needed it, however, I'm not really sure I'd ever been able to draw it and shoot it had a bear fancied me anyhow knowing how quietly and QUICKLY they can move. I am aware of the lady that killed and elephant with an 84# X-Force, but again, we're still talking a superior archer to most, and a 500yd recovery is a LONG ways. And as I understand it her shot was precisely WHERE it was supposed to be. No doubt, it CAN be done, but at what cost to the image of hunting are people doing it????? As for how much of a hunt, I'm just stating what I'd heard, as I've never hunted them myself. Then again, I've heard the same thing about Buffalo (aka American Bison), and that doesn't stop me from having the desire to hunt one. As I said, I understand that "certainly the population of elephants NEEDS to be hunted to keep it in check," but I'm just not certain that archery equipment is the best choice. |
RE: Elephants
Doug,
Will is fine... If your were to participate in an archery only season here in the states, I'm pretty sure every state wouldconvict you for using afirearm to finish an animal. So the"I've never felt like I would need a rifle/pistol etc, for any deer or elk I went after"is a mute point isn't it? That's not the case elsewhere around the world. Especially, when drawing blood means drawing your wallet. My first effort would be to kill the elephant (or any game animal)with a bow-getting in as many arrows as needed. I guess that's what us bowhunters do. In the event things did go arwy, I would not hesitate to finish the job with whatever means-providing those means were legal. but at what cost to the image of hunting are people doing it????? I would think a person like you (if your are truly a bow hunter) would look atindividuals like those listed abovefor the imageyou put forth to the public. Iwould also hope you give the individual the benefit of the doubt. I would hate to see your son or daughter, althought capable, void of the opportunity simply because you (among others) felt it couldn't be done. 500 yards is nothing for a animal with a slow heart rate. Heck, I've had elk run a mile after a perfect double lunger. So no, 500 yards is not a long way. I sort ofcompare hunting elephants with a bow to driving an automobile on the highway. Both can be done. They both have their risks. If you're stupid, either you or someone else is going to get killed. Many of us are capable... As for how much of a hunt, I'm just stating what I'd heard, as I've never hunted them myself. Peace. |
RE: Elephants
im also against it
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RE: Elephants
iamyourhuckleberry, I have read (and admired) your posts on here about your hunts. And I think I would rather have you culling the herds of these elephants, when that is necessary, than most anyone I can think of (not that I have any input or expertise on such matters).
And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness. Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made. I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry. |
RE: Elephants
ORIGINAL: MountainHunter iamyourhuckleberry, I have read (and admired) your posts on here about your hunts. And I think I would rather have you culling the herds of these elephants, when that is necessary, than most anyone I can think of (not that I have any input or expertise on such matters). And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness. Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made. I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry. It's has and always be about survival in the wild. |
RE: Elephants
ORIGINAL: MountainHunter iamyourhuckleberry, I have read (and admired) your posts on here about your hunts. And I think I would rather have you culling the herds of these elephants, when that is necessary, than most anyone I can think of (not that I have any input or expertise on such matters). And, based on your success and the experiences you have shared, I am sure that you have many more facts on elephants and many other animals than most of these forums. I am equally sure that you do not know any better than anyone else here, as to whether or not an elephant has a conscience or possesses consciousness. Maybe it does, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe it’s just a matter of definition of what consciousness is or what level of awareness constitutes the critical threshold to meet each of our individual definitions of consciousness. Personally, I think this is a personal issue. I think each of us will have our own reckoning with whatever intelligence (I call it God) that created the world and we each need to be at peace with the decisions we individually have made. I started this thread because I think elephants are amazing animals and thought that bowhunters would appreciate the beauty and intelligence of these animals, whether or not they decided to hunt one. Also, my sister has had some interaction with them (she works at the National Zoo in DC), and some of her stories are really thought-provoking (and while she loves nature, she’s not a PETA-type...she wants me to hunt the deer that feed in her garden). And she knows that elephants sometimes need to be culled. Some people have interpreted this thread as an attempt to stop people from legally hunting elephants. It isn’t. It needs to be done in some circumstances. Based on your articulate and thoughtfully written posts about your hunts, I hope it is someone like you who is doing it, iamyourhuckleberry. Me personally no , but i do agree if anybody can ... Its Will . If there is one thing i have learn't from Will's experiences , its that it is done proper and no corners cut . 100% commitment . |
RE: Elephants
A year ago Chuck Adams wrote an article in Bowhunting World about how he was invited to an African Country (Tanzania?) to see if an archery season for African Elephants was possible. In his professional opinion, and let's face it he isthe pro, that hunting Elephant with abow is borderline unethical. After two shots The PH ended up having to finish the animal. I believe he was using a one-off 100lb+ bow with special arrows and the like.
While cutting open the animal, he described how the animals 3" wide ribs basically overlapped eachother dispersing enough energy to minimize what ever energy was left in the arrow for penetration. Personally, I have no interest in going to Africa to hunt game or otherwise and likewise have no intrest in shooting anElephant. However I am glad there are opportunities toharvest them witha gun if folks so choose to. I will take Chuck's word for it thatthe technology is quite their yet to be harvesting an Elephant with a bow. |
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