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We've got river-bottom areas of my county that I know hold bigger deer than what I see

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You've also NEVER heard me complain about my hunting grounds. Never.;)

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ORIGINAL: Germ

My question for Fran is the 2.5 115 inch deer the top end for his area? He's never seen one bigger in the county he hunts?

Typical 168(I think someone shot a 173 in 2007)
Non Typical -186

My best 176 Non Typical
145 Typical

And I do not know;)

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ORIGINAL: Matt / PA

Statistical Anomaly 9/07
R.I.P.


But if anyone thinks that the fact that me and my statistical anomaly were in the same place at the same time was also an anomaly you'd be mistaken.
What I find intersting is that I seem to get a "vibe" from here that because some of us in underprivilaged areas don't kill big bucks like that regularly we're somehow not looking hard enough?
LOL I find it almost comical sometimes to read some of it...........

You guys ever see the video "bowhunting Pressured Whitetails"? .....I just picked up a copy of this much heralded video a little while back (the pre-season scouting volume) And almost laughed out loud when I watched it. You could have taken a Sony Handicam along with me from the preseason through the first week of the season last year and simply changed the name on the cover of the video. Stuff I learned through 23 years of trial and error turns out to be the "right way" to a T and I have one statistical anomaly to show for 23 years of hunting PA>

Now fast forward to the midwest......I hunted there for the first time in 2003 (Nebraska) and saw an honest 5 bucks that would go over P&Y and 2 that would push Boone and Crockett in 6 days of hunting. I also passed 4 bucks at under 10 yards that would have been 20-40" bigger than any deer I had previously killed in PA. IN 6 DAYS.

2004 ....more of the same, I blew a chip shot opportunity at a 160" 10pt the very first morning of DAY ONE after never seeing the leased property before in my life other than some fuzzy airials to start a scouting search. Hung a stand the night before and bingo. Passed another buck that would have been 40" bigger than any I had killed in my life in PA (because of the first encounter) and saw 4 other bucks that would make P&Y without hesitation. In 7 Days of hunting.

2006,2007.......back to IL. Now hunting with Greg on some established ground he hunts. This is in the right state and we hunt some tough public land bucks. I missed a P&Y buck in the first 3 days of the 2006 season, and saw one other that would make P&Y for sure. 2007 I almost shot a solid 135" buck in the first evening of day one, passed many deer that would have been toast in PA.

So what is the common denominator herethat allowed me to see roughly 14 P&Y bucks (some going close to that magical 170" mark) in a matter of roughly 4 weeks of stand time when I hadn't seen but a single one in 23 YEARS prior in PA?
And my god these weren't even outfitter hunts! These were just a lease, and hunting with some friends on knock on door type properties in unmanaged areas. :D

You can get blood from a stone but by God you have to squeeze the ever loving crap out of it and it might take 23 years to see a drop.

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Gary, that in itself doesn't prove anything more that there was at lease ONE or TWO big bucks in his county. Now, compare that to how many are in PIKE county Illinois and you get an idea of what Fran is trying to say. You can't sit there and tell me he has the same chance to kill a P&Y deer as the dude in Pike....he doesn't and I don't care how good a hunter Fran is or how bad the hunter in Pike Co. is, the guy in Pike stands a better chance to kill a P&Y deer than Fran period.

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ORIGINAL: BigJ71

Gary, that in itself doesn't prove anything more that there was at lease ONE or TWO big bucks in his county. Now, compare that to how many are in PIKE county Illinois and you get an idea of what Fran is trying to say. You can't sit there and tell me he has the same chance to kill a P&Y deer as the dude in Pike....he doesn't and I don't care how good a hunter Fran is or how bad the hunter in Pike Co. is, the guy in Pike stands a better chance to kill a P&Y deer than Fran period.

Judging by yours (and others statements) you must be of the belief that the hunters in the big buck states ofIllinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Ohio, etc.... are just better hunters than the hunters in Pennsylvania, Virgina, North Carolina, Florida, Louisiana or any other state that doesn't produce the number if P&Y bucks that the other states do.

Is that what you think?? If your answer is no then what do YOU attribute to low numbers of P&Y bucks killed in those states to??

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To know all extra actvites have to stop, no varmit hunting, Hockey vacations with the wife[8D] Like i said it's 100 times harder for Fran than it is for most others.

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and if he has a pressured area,it willjust got 100 times harder IMO.

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ORIGINAL: buckeye

I do not think anyone has said that... Heck, Gary has said quite a few times it is 100 times harder for Fran in his area.... I do not see anyone arguing thefact that it is harder in such areas.....

Just claiming that a 115 inch 2.5 year old buck as a top end whitetail is kind of hard to believe.... Another year he would easily be a P&Y animal. There is no way every 2.5 buck in his area gets killed.

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ORIGINAL: Germ

If we are honest with ourselves most of will say we could be doing more. Saturday night I should be on that river glassing the fields to see what is there. I will be taking my kids to see Wall-E movie;)

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The fact of the matter is, a 150in deer in Illinois is indeed a "top end deer" just as a 115in deer in PA is. Do both have bigger deer lurking? I'm sure they do....

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I'm also sure Illinois has more of their "top end deer" that PA does.;)

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ORIGINAL: Germ

What I have said is there is a cost and it's differnet in every state, location.

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So IF you Jeff wanted to try and shoot bigger buck in your state what would you do? What would it cost you? Are you willing to pay the price?

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