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RE: Big Buck Barometer
Most every year we spottwo or three130-140" deer on our farm. And usually every year there's one or two 160" or better deer seen in the area of our farm (within a mileor so). I won't shoot a buck unless I believe he's a Poper and 3.5 years old.
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RE: Big Buck Barometer
Plain truth is many of us, me included simply just do not know what the top end deer is in our area. Until a person decides to make a 110% commitment to hunting the top on deer in his area. He simply will not know what is there Going after them 120 or 180% won't change that. |
RE: Big Buck Barometer
Ok first, almost everyone thinks my bucks come from allegheny co, because I live here & they are big[8D]
While I do hunt here, I do so only because it beats sitting at home. My spots aren't that great, so I often travel 45 minutes to hunt elsewhere. (even though if you took the P&Y bucks per square mile, I'm sure I'm headed to a statistically less productive area) So the FIRST night you hunted, you.. (how should I put this....Hmmmm...) you didn't see, but heard, then subsequently found out, there was a decent size buck (good enough?) in your hunting area.I wonder how that happened......location??;) |
RE: Big Buck Barometer
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Plain truth is many of us, me included simply just do not know what the top end deer is in our area. Until a person decides to make a 110% commitment to hunting the top on deer in his area. He simply will not know what is there Going after them 120 or 180% won't change that. To know all extra actvites have to stop, no varmit hunting, Hockey vacations with the wife[8D] Like i said it's 100 times harder for Fran than it is for most others. Take last year buck 115'' 2.5 lets see 3.5 135'' 4.5 160'' How many 4.5 and 5.5 bucks are running around in fran's area. I bet not to many. Which why it is so damn hard to know, and it's ok not to know, hell I don't know:D There is a hunter in MI who kills 150+ bucks every year. His county has 2 B & C entries, he has both. Ask hunters in that county what thetop ondeer is in that county. I bet they say 130'', he has many over 150'' mark. If we are honest with ourselves most of will say we could be doing more. Saturday night I should be on that river glassing the fields to see what is there. I will be taking my kids to see Wall-E movie;) Ask yourself am I doing enough to know what the top end deer are where I hunt? |
RE: Big Buck Barometer
Ask yourself am I doing enough to know the what the top end deer are where I hunt? If you aren't......well that's where it gets tricky. |
RE: Big Buck Barometer
ORIGINAL: GregH John, you have to remember that when I first started hunting in 1967, I had never seen or heard of compound bows or treestands! It wasn't until 1984 that I shot a 96" 8 pointer with my rifle and I thought that it was a monster! I thought woods were woods and that deer were deer. I didn't realize that over 80% of the bucks taken during that time were only 1 1/2 year olds. Then a buddy told me about the P&Y and B&C clubs. I started to wonder why I had never seen one. So I started studying about deer, scouting and making a real effort to try to find one of these beasts. I started trophy hunting in 1991 and started hunting Ill in 1994. And now I'm where I'm at because of the desire to hunt big bucks. Fair enough, but my question really pertains to adult years of hunting. You'll notice that when speaking of my hunting career I use the last 20+ years as an example. Truth be told I started deer hunting with my dad when I was a 9 but I don't claim to have 34 years of deer hunting experience nor do I count those early years when it pertains to the scenario questioned in this thread. So...that being said, I have a few more questions. How many years in the last 14 (since 1994) of hunting Illinois have you gotten skunked or not seen a P&Y caliber deer?. don't entirely agree with this statement either. I had been hunting a "trophy-heavy" area for 8 years before I finally learned enough about mature bucks to finally lay eyes on one and tag it. I totally believe in the statement that hunting a mature buck is like hunting a different species. You have to have you're sh_t together or you won't see or get many. I'm still finding it hard to believe you didn't see a P&Y caliberdeer in a trophy-heavy area for eight years when I've been seeing them for 20+ in not so "trophy-heavy" areas ofIllinois. Experience while necessary is NOT the only prerequisite needed to killing P&Y caliber deer, you need to be where they are to do so as well. I'd venture to say that there are a lot of hunters in PA and VA and NC, etc...that are far more skilled and put more time and effort into pursuing Whitetail deerthan you or I, yet they don't have the antler inches that you or I do hanging on their walls. For us to think otherwise is arrogant at the least and borderline self absorbed elitism because the bottom line is their states don't hold the number of P&Y deer as ours do thus their opportunities for killing a P&Y deer drop off drastically. EVEN if all the "best, most skilled trophy hunters" traveled and gathered in the few isolated areas where P&Y bucks were killed, they STILL wouldn't kill the numbers the average Joe kills in the big buck states so it isn't all about skill. It all boils down to location....like it or not. |
RE: Big Buck Barometer
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Ask yourself am I doing enough to know the what the top end deer are where I hunt? If you aren't......well that's where it gets tricky. My question for Fran is the 2.5 115 inch deer the top end for his area? He's never seen one bigger in the county he hunts? Typical 168(I think someone shot a 173 in 2007) Non Typical -186 My best 176 Non Typical 145 Typical And I do not know;) |
RE: Big Buck Barometer
You're looking at this in too broad a sense, Gary....even narrowing it down to state/counties (as far as I'm concerned, personally.....but I won't speak for Fran). We've got river-bottom areas of my county that I know hold bigger deer than what I see. We've got less densely populated areas (deer-wise)very near me that I don't have access to). Conceded. I don't have the desire/inclination to go there and hunt them...when I have great hunting ground, right here by the house.
You've also NEVER heard me complain about my hunting grounds. Never.;) I answered the question with the assumption of how it pertained to the grounds I can actually hunt. What the guys are doing on lands I can't/(don't have the desire to)access....or what they're hunting.....I can't speak to. I stated what a "good deer" for where I hunt is (IMO). That would be 100"+. I've heard it said here, before....and I believe it to be true... If you're taking the best representative deer your woods have to offer.....on a consistent basis.......then you should be proud. |
RE: Big Buck Barometer
If you're killing them....the answer's pretty easy. I think you are misunderstanding the difference between a nice buck for their area and a top end buck..... Lot's of people shoot nice bucks for their area on a regular / semi regular basis, not so on top end whitetails. |
RE: Big Buck Barometer
It's easy to sit back and say "you're not trying hard enough" or "you're not looking in the right places," but there comes a point where you are legitimately and routinely shooting the biggest deer around, and you have to accept that you're not hunting in Pike County.Or just realize that you're waiting for a statistical anomaly that might only come along once-in-a-lifetime. If ever. R.I.P.  But if anyone thinks that the fact that me and my statistical anomaly were in the same place at the same time was also an anomaly you'd be mistaken. What I find intersting is that I seem to get a "vibe" from here that because some of us in underprivilaged areas don't kill big bucks like that regularly we're somehow not looking hard enough? LOL I find it almost comical sometimes to read some of it........... You guys ever see the video "bowhunting Pressured Whitetails"? .....I just picked up a copy of this much heralded video a little while back (the pre-season scouting volume) And almost laughed out loud when I watched it. You could have taken a Sony Handicam along with me from the preseason through the first week of the season last year and simply changed the name on the cover of the video. Stuff I learned through 23 years of trial and error turns out to be the "right way" to a T and I have one statistical anomaly to show for 23 years of hunting PA> Now fast forward to the midwest......I hunted there for the first time in 2003 (Nebraska) and saw an honest 5 bucks that would go over P&Y and 2 that would push Boone and Crockett in 6 days of hunting. I also passed 4 bucks at under 10 yards that would have been 20-40" bigger than any deer I had previously killed in PA. IN 6 DAYS. 2004 ....more of the same and first time ever in Illinois, I blew a chip shot opportunity at a 160" 10pt the very first morning of DAY ONE after never seeing the leased property before in my life other than some fuzzy airials to start a scouting search. Hung a stand the night before and bingo, (If I didn't spook the doe he was with trying to get into position for a shot :eek:) Passed another buck that would have been 40" bigger than any I had killed in my life in PA (because of the first encounter) and saw 4 other bucks that would make P&Y without hesitation. In 7 Days of hunting. 2006,2007.......back to IL. Now hunting with Greg on some established ground he hunts. This is in the right state and we hunt some tough public land bucks. I missed a P&Y buck in the first 3 days of the 2006 season, and saw one other that would make P&Y for sure. 2007 I almost shot a solid 135" buck in the first evening of day one, passed many deer that would have been toast in PA. So what is the common denominator herethat allowed me to see roughly 14 P&Y bucks (some going close to that magical 170" mark) in a matter of roughly 4 weeks of stand time when I hadn't seen but a single one in 23 YEARS prior in PA? And my god these weren't even outfitter hunts! These were just a lease, and hunting with some friends on knock on door type properties in unmanaged areas. :D You can get blood from a stone but by God you have to squeeze the ever loving crap out of it and it might take 23 years to see a drop. |
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