First all when I post something I mean exactly what I say

We were only talking in our hunting areas, your state, I never stated anything about "enough". We all have choices. I make choice that I think is the best for me, we know you do the same.

The question still is the same. If you, me, John want to shoot bigger buck in our location. What we would have to do.

For me it's simple more time, and I do not have it.

I'd say thats about a perfect assessment sir. Any buck that is 125" and up will get noticed and get you slaps on the back. They are there, and while I may have never found any sheds, I don't put a lot of effort forth to find them either... maybe one or two walk-abouts.

On 500 acres last year, I got pictures of four bucks that would make Pope and Young, and another one that is flirting but I don't think quite at 170" gross....I am confident he would gross over 160" for the awards in B&C... but would fall short net because of deductions (see pictures below).... he is a trophy animal either way. I also found those two bucks that killed each other locked up right behind the club house in the pond... the final scores of those two, by the way, were 129 4/8 and 126 6/8 net. Both grossed over 130".

I put a thread up about them... there are the pictures in the first post of the thread:

http://www.hunting.net/forum/tm.aspx...&key=&#2826839

There are a few bigguns running around too.... this was one of the best... gross over 160" I'd say... net... ehhh who knows.... hard to tell... definately pretty though:

There is no "Alberta Bow Zone". There are two bow zones in Alberta. One is the Edmonton Bow Zone, and the other is the Calgary Bow Zone (south). See, you learn something new every day.

Here Jeff I will start

Phone rang

Gary do you want in on my lease, the prices is x.

Let me talk it over with my wife and think about it.

Issues
1. Money -no problem Ihave the cash for the lease.
2.Are there deer there I want to shoot. See his book that is where he shot them all
3. Travel is 65 miles from my house
4. Time I am going to be away for weekends and not home.
5. Ease to hunt

Issue three was a big one for me, I would drive by Gas bill up a LOT. But more than bill was the time of getting there to my stand. Currently I can leave my house and be hunting in my tree in less than 30 mins. The new place would be just under two hours. Also the time coming home I would not be able to put the kids to bed.

Being away for more weekends was not going to work for Mrs. Germ or me.

Ease to hunt was even bigger. I would be using my climber, no easy climbs in hang on, no nice boat ride.

Even though I really wanted to hunt the place, it was not worth it to me from what I already hunt.

Has nothing to do with how much I want to shoot big bucks or how much I want it. It has to do with what is important to me. Is giving up what I listed above worth antler on the wall? I think not, and this is a choice we all make. My point is and always will be, we all have a choice

Germ's so smart.

Very well put.

John,
It's nice that you have your own way of breaking down your hunting experience according to pre-teen, teen, adult, middle-age and senior years. I did not know that you were only talking about "adult" years of hunting. I too roamed the woods with my dad when I was 9. However, I count the years that I had my very own bowhunting liscense as years of bowhunting experience. So that would be 41 years of experience not 43.

In the last 14 years of hunting Ill I did not shot a mature buck during 6 of the 14 seasons. Of those 6, there were some that I did see a P&Y caliber deer, I don't remember how many.

Good detective work, John. The "trophy heavy" area I was talking about was in my home town of Racine, Wi. I started hunting this area in the early '70s. At the time we were only rabbit and pheasant hunting because there weren't any deer around (at least that we knew of). We started seeing deer in the early '80s and I started hunting for them in 1983. Eight years later, in 1991, I shot my first P&Y.

You really shouldn't assume anything about my hunting, John, because you don't know. Well I'll tell you.... after the first P&Y in '91, I shot4 more P&Y class bucks in a row. Then my land was sold in '96. I had to find a new spot in Wi. In the mean time I had hunted Ill for the last 2 seasons. I bagged my first big one in Ill in '96 and mythird one in '01. Skunked in both states in '97 but doubled in '98, '03 and '04. 2004 was the last time I was able to hunt in my home county but have been hunting up north (where I want to move). So for the 3 seasons I have bow hunted Ill until successful and then went up north to hunt. So far I only got a 130" up there with my rifle. So my total is 8 with a bow in Wi and 8 with a bow in Ill and one with a rifle in wi. 17 total.

As you can see, my success is about equal in either state and have averaged taking a mature buck for each of the 17 seasons that I've been hunting them.

Well, I'm not lying..... I hope you're not accusing me of that.

Experience is necessary but not the only prerequesite for killing a P&Y. You're right John, you do have to hunt where they live (at least one of them).

I'm not about to say who is more skilled than myself anywhere, especially in other states. There are too many variables as to why I might have more inches of antler hanging on my walls. I would guess that the number one reason would be that I put in more time than most. Because if they were as skilled or more skilledthan I am, they'd certainly be hunting in a location where they had a reasonable chance of success.

John, calm down. Nobody is getting arrogant or elite. The point is, that their states do hold some numbers of these animals. If it is their goal to kill one of these animals in their home state, then they are going to have to find them.... it's called hunting.

It really does not ALL boil down to location. Location is only part of the equation, like it or not...... that's gospel. [:-]

I would say realisticly speaking 140-160 would be considered top end bucks in my area. Every year someone gets a 125-135. Looking at the books for my county there are several 150's a ton of 130's an 140's an occasionally 160-170's. For the mostpart I can see taking an 130's to 140's any year. Any bigger than that is hopes. An I hope this will come by me this year an he is bigger than this.

If He turns My Crank!

Then he's Big enough for me!

Dan

Sorry I john I missed this one.

I have studied this a lot, and here it is.

We shoot them all before they have a chance to get big70+% here in MI, but I think it's way higher. In state where the numbers of older deer is high it's because of deer management and low hunting numbers.

Here is a great stat, Jeff has shot 2 bigger deer than all my family members but 1 in MI. My GrandFather has never shot a deer over 100'' in Northen MI[&:]

Matt here another anomoly in MI. John hunts state and private land in Mid Michigan. The odds in MI are 1-5000, in Mid MI they are a bit worst. The is a reason WKPTodd moved to Iowa. If you have not read John books they are great.



John's site
http://www.eberhartsbowhunting.com/

Check out his early years