RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Kinetic Energy is indeed a function of Momentum (aka Moment of a Force-Measured in ft-lbs)

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RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

So what' s the video deal? What' s the subject matter of it? I must have misseed what it' s about.:eek:

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Krisken, I just minimize my posts and they stay open. I don' t know much about computers so I hope that helps !

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

They teach in the bowhunter safety class that quarting away shots on large game such as elk, moose, bear, etc. is a low percentage shot and should under no circumstances be taken. The only reccommended shot at large game is broadside. The reson is penetration can be a big problem on these animals and single lung hits are much more likely with quartering shots.

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

I talked with Dick_cress and we thought this info may be of some use to a few of you out there.

mass 6. Abbr. m Physics. The measure of the quantity of matter that a body or an object contains. The mass of the body is not dependent on gravity and therefore is different from but proportional to its weight.
---------------------------------------------------------
Excerpted from American Heritage Dictionary
Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc.

The above definition captures the gist of the problem. The equation for kinetic energy is correct: K.E. = ½ mV2. What is missing is the conversion factor for changing " weight" to " mass" . To do that you must divide the weight of the projectile by " g" , the value of the acceleration of gravity : 32.16 feet per second (or 32.174 fps depending on your reference). Also, to arrive at an answer in foot pounds you need to convert " grains" to " pounds" . There are 7000 grains in a pound, so you also need to divide the weight (or mass) of the projectile by 7000.
K.E. = kinetic energy (in foot pounds)
g = acceleration of gravity = 32.16
w = weight of the projectile (in grains)
m = mass of the projectile
V = velocity of the projectile (in feet per second)

K.E. = ½ m V²

or

K.E. = wV²/ 2g x 7000

or

K.E. = wV²/450240


For some strange reason I can' t seem to get the underline or division line to work. The above formula is wV² divided by 2 g x 7000 or wV² divided by 450240. Hope this helps.

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Krisken,

Cool on the vid' s. I' ll get a copy of my copy to the Natal Study for you to view if you go the route up here.

Yes if you add bow weight and keep the same GPP, you will do very well, its unforutunate many do not do this or have this idea or even understand why.

We opt for quartering away or broadside with ALL big game not just Moose, but whitetails too. But as I am sure you are well aware, THINGS HAPPEN. Even for the most diligant and maticulous bowhunter, the odds of murphy' s law reaking havoc on a " perfect scenerio" is about as close to the triple digits as it can be and still be under 100% for a bowhunters career that it will happen atleast once at any given time.

You say no elk or brownies now...its just that, for now. You never did answer about the Ny Moose Draw? If you did draw, would you bowhunt them? And you never know what the future will hold. Who knows you might get a wild hair and draw a desert bighorn tag and do the hunt with the bow......but for now......

Last but not least, no you are well fine for the most hunted critter (FOAM...ha [X(]). But you also fail to see the rest of the " penetration equation" Its not as simple as 1+1= 4 [>:]. Yes they are important things, espically Momentum more so then KE. Their are however other variables that will play into how well or not so well your arrow will penetrate. And btw, there is never to much guns in momentum or penetration when your object is a complete pass through. Even on a less then desirable hit (gawd forbid), the more penetration you achieve, the higher the % of killing that animal will be. Not only a higher % of killing that animal but killing it fast. Its one thing to say we all live in a perfect world, the reality is we dont.

Look at the spine shot thread in the recent archieves. I can put over 2/3rds and arrow through a sheeps spine dead center but yet the average adult shooting as much weight with compounds against my longbow, carbon or alum arrows against my woods, on the average is not achieving (atleast on that thread) as much penetration as I did there and my longbow is set at only 60lbs with wood arras. Not to mention the animal I spine shot was on the average 150lbs heavier then some of the biggest whitetails shot body wise in the upper midwest. The difference between the thought process of of what I think and what the many others think is they feel there equipment will do well in a " perfect environment" I KNOW my equipment will do well in a less then " perfect environment" ! That not only goes for penetration. I can be up and running after breaking a string in shear minutes with very little to no retuning and/or resighting involved. For someone hunting the back 40, it might be the end of the day' s hunt followed by a couple days of down time. For someone on a fly out or even driving trip here in Ak or out west, it could mean the end of the hunt for many days or the total end to it being a hunting trip and making it a camping trip. I did have some problems with finish on arrows, that wont happen again. The sheep didnt know the difference and the arrow hit exactly where I " aimed" it. What does all this matter, not a hole heckuva lot to the average bowhunter, thats the reason they dont think of it or disregard it. And thats the same reason they miss the " less then desirable penetration" thought process of what would happen if....... I know, do you?

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Krisken,

You are going to have to shoot a bow at a bit over 800 ft/sec in order for a deer to not jump the string. That is the speed of sound. And with your lightweight arrows, the noise your bow makes when you release gets to the deer so quick they will jump the string at anything greater than 15 yards or so, and probably out to 30 yards. I too want to hear your explanation of how you are only getting one inch of drop out to 37 yards. Are you shooting in a vacuum?

Bill

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

I can buy that a Quartering to shot is bad and I don' t plan to take one. However, please send me the name of the video that says the Quartering Away Shot is a bad shot.

I prefer the Quartering Away Shot and hope for it, as do most prominent bowhunters. It is a deadly shot with a large target area. However, if the Quartering Away angle is too great it must not be taken.

RE: Speed is all you need! (?)
 

Bill,

Even better, the speed of sound is 1092 fps.

a neat chart I dug up

Air 1,092
Oxygen 1,040
Hydrogen 4,164
Carbonic Acid 858
River-water (Seine) 15c 4,741
Solution of Common Salt 18c 5,132
Common Alcohol 20c 4,218
Solution Chloride of calcium 23c 6,493