Excellent information Greg! Thanks for the post! I always think in terms of how would I use a particular area if I had a mature bucks senses and didn't want to get shot.

There are 2 doe bedding areas on the parcel that I hunt on and 4 others on land adjacent to the parcel. I noticed the others from an observation stand where I can view the large cropfield that they surround. When this large field is planted in beans I can easily observe where the doe groups come out into the field from. From there, I figured out a bucks most likely travel paths for when he comes onto my parcel to check on these does bedding areas. After hunting it for 5 seasons, even when it's planted in corn and I can't see the does on the adjacent property, I know they're there and the bucks will come.

That's why I take notes and study topo's and aerial photos. It takes a pretty drastic change in terrain to alter the deers travel patterns.

My theory is exactly what yours is. I saw evidence that supports it last season.

Some of the oldest does seems to come into estrus first. And it will attract the bucks like flys on........ you know. Well, when a dominant buck takes that doe for himself, it really incites a riot with the younger bucks, especially the 3 1/2s. That is when you see the first seeking frenzy.

This happened to me last season when I took the buck pictured in this thread. An old doe in one of the bedding areas on my hunting spot was in estrus. It was Oct 28th. During 2 hunts earlier in the week I only saw a couple of does and fawns on the north side of my spot. On the evening of the 28th, the wind had switched allowing me to hunt the south end of my spot for the first time of the season. To make a long story short, I saw a massive non-typical dogging a doe (the old one), 25 yards from my stand. No shot. [:@]She took him straight away from me. Not 30 minutes later, an ancient, down hill 11 pointer with an enormous body came by with a 1 1/2 4 pt in tow. The big guy let out the loudest, deepest grunt I'd ever heard then made a scrape at 23 yards, in my shooting lane. He had great mass and a wide spread, but his longest tines were only 4-5 inches and wouldn't make P&Y. It was easy to pass because I wanted the NT. It was the first NT I'd ever seen from a stand.The 11 pt and the 4 pt bedded down at 5 and 18 yards from my stand, pinning against my tree, standing, for 45 minutes. They finally got up and moved off in the direction from which they had come. Ten minutes after that I hadtwo 3 1/2s come by from the direction the NT and the doe had went. It was quite action packed! At dark I snuck out of there. The next day I couldn't hunt there because of the wind but I saw the two 3 1/2 8 pts from one of my other stands. They came from the direction of the stand with all the action. Finally, the wind switched again and I was able to hunt the stand where I'd seen all the action. The stand is located in thick cover between two doe bedding areas. I got there 10 minutes before light and had action immediately. First the 11 pt and the 4 pt came by, then the two 3 1/2s, a button buck ran by, a 1 1/2 7 pt walked by and finally the buck I ended up shooting! Wow! [:-][:-]

I believe that it was the old doe that brought all the bucks to that spot. After that, the action died down for a bit, as my friend hunts there also. He ended up shooting on on the 12th of Nov.

During the second flurry of activity I start seeing a lot of the 3 1/2s and some 4 1/2s all busted up from fighting.

Another theory I have is that some of the largest bucks I see during the season arn't seen until around Thanksgiving through Dec 10th. It almost seems like they let the younger, aggressive bucks blow off steam and wear themselves out before they come out and easily take does away from them. I've seen this happen more than once.

Thanks allot Greg!! Makes allot of sense. I better start scouting!! I don't scout nearly as much as I should.. I am making more of an effort to scout this year! Already started!!!

Greg, what you said inthat last paragraph is exactly what I have read and heard numerous times. The really big/mature bucks do their shopping later on in therut. My guideup in Alberta says this isFACT! Hence, my hunt date ( Nov 24th-29th) this year. He says, hands down, this is the best time to kill a monster. He also said bring my warmest clothes!

Deer must be the same in WI as they are in IL. Great post Greg!!

I have taken 3 P&Y bucks on Nov. 11th. That's my favorite day.

Dan

Great info, thanks for the time!

Very interesting, it's got me thinking!

Yeah, it may sound simple but in reality it takes a lot of time and effort.

The idea was to word it in a way that people would understand or could relate to. To make a light click on.

For example, I read a lot of articles on how to hunt for big bucks. How many articles do you think were writtenabout the rut over the last 40 years? I've read a million of them. Sometimes someone will write something that has been written before but his wording is such that something clicks for me. Then it gives me something new to try. This is what I was trying to do.

Guys, thanks for all of your replies.

I would have to say Greg when I lived out onT.S. the biggest I seen around were that last week of October and first 3-4 days of November.
To bad I couldnt get permission to hunt. They did let me pretty much go where I wanted on that land though. Best day was Oct 26th
when I had 12 bucks standing around me in a hours time. I was testing some deer scents when this double tined 14 point came in
to check it out. Another buck kind of came in behind him and boy he did not like that and gave him a nice push and the buck got the
point. About 5 minutes later all hell broke loose and I had all these bucks everywhere around me. Well a hot doe came in and that
14 point mounted her with at least 7-8 bucks at that time around me. I lived over there (Sorry folks only a few know where I am talking about and I have to keep it this way)
for 5 years and in that time you could count on these monsters showing up right around these dates every year.
I would say by 2nd week of Nov these dudes would just disappear again. I cant speak for the end of Nov as I am up in Northern Wi for the gun season.
For up there I have only seen the rut really still kicked in but all of a hand full of seasons since 1984.
Mybiggest thus farwas taken on Nov 3rd. The 180+ plus I missed [:@]the date was Oct 14th, 1992 at around 02:00 pm.
With all this being said it seem to be the best times to get one but anytime it can happen.
Remember this is just my observations get out there and make your own by putting in the time.
T