speaking of success rates, and quiks post that CLEARLY showed a spike, as expected, during the end of october through early november(most of our seeking/chasing phase of the rut in alot of states) on the kill date poll...

what do you think bowhunters success rate would be if the rut that we all know and love was non-exsistant...no summer feeding patterns either..just plain ole deer hunting like the middle of october...

what about mature buck hunters success rates?? or..i should say the number of mature bucks harvested...??

personally, i feel the rut changes the playing field enough to make a pretty significant impact in success...

if you have deer around, its not real hard to see deer during the seeking/chasing phase of the rut. getting close enough for an archery shot...ya i will agree that takes a little doing...but still...we all know we get away with just a little more than we usually do...yes, their gaurds and instincts dont completely shut off, but they do seem alot lowered...ive YELLED at bucks on a hot trail just to get them to stop. sat there and moved around and took pics and all that too and they just seemed a heck of alot dumber than they were 2 or 3 weeks earlier...you guys know what i mean...

im not saying its EASY...dont get me wrong...but i feel its easier...and allows more hunters to get shots at bucks, and get shots at bigger, older bucks that they probably didnt even know were in the area...

just for an example...2 of my buddies started bowhunting last fall...1 buddy seen a couple deer here and there all season...caught a glimpse of a biggun...he was busted before he even got a clear view from a far distance...barely scouted at all...just walked in found a trail and sat on it pretty much...over hunted..that was the only spot he hunted and he got to hunt a good bit. just didnt know much about what he was doing other than "bowhunting"...yep..he ended up killing that buck..and it was a goodun...and like i told him, he will never see it again until the rut...sure enough thats when he seen it again and when he killed it. im not jealous so dont claim that..were good friends..im happy for the kid..its a dandy buck...

next buddy...didnt see a DEER all season...didnt scout at ALL..just went to areas he seen deer spotting or where the farmer said "aughta be a good spot" come the last weekend or 2 of the season, he seen piles of deer and a couple bucks. 1 slammer for sure...another was a pretty good one...he was in an awesome funnel...he couldnt TELL you why he saw deer...couldnt tell you it was a perfect funnel and just one of them perfect spots..just went there coz the farmer said someone told him that they saw a big one cross the road there....again, he only seen deer during the rut..

yes it still takes some woodsmanship, shooting skills, etc etc....but it would be hard to argue that my thoughts are WAY off base.....

what do you guys say...? just curious...dont jump on me or attack me [X(] no right or wrong answers...im new at this archery stuff...but thats my observations...

Welcome to my world!! [:@] Bow season in VT runs 1st Saturday of October (all crops cut by then = no summer feeding patterns) until generally the last Sunday of October (before the chasing starts). This year is October 4th thru October 26th.

Like you said "just plain ole deer hunting like the middle of october... ". That's all I get, which is one reason why on the success rate poll my buck rate is less than 5%! I shoot does whenever I can, but the bucks just aren't moving. It's tough hunting.

... Shockwave

You gotta shorten up your questions man[8D]

Long story short if there was no more hunting during the rut, I could still kill bucks, but they'd most likely not be old ones.

I'm old enough to remember the PA bow season stopping at the end of october. THAT was some tough times.

You'd definitely see a dramatic decrease in the number and average size of the bucks taken - nationwide.

Yeah but you gotta think about something guys......(and don't get me wrong....I agree with you all on MOST everything you've said).....

If we didn't kill so many of them during the rut......there would be more of them around the next year. Maybe those 1.5yr olds and occasional 2.5yr olds we see now would be 3.5 and maybe even 4.5 yr olds during that time of year......IF the sheer numbers of them were up.

How would it affect the herd dynamica to have that many more bucks around......in lieu of so many of them being killed during that time every year???

Something to think about, huh?

Does this mean I can't call you Captain Obvious?

We have the rut end of story.

LOL peakrut!

Hence, antler restrictions.

You have to remember also that "just plain ole deer hunting in the middle of October" is still apart of the rut. Granted the deer are not chasing up and down the country side in broad daylight like teenagers on prom night, but their primary focus is on does. If you really do mean the middle of October then many does are bred during that time, making the bucks almost as ceceptible as they would be during the chase phase.