My high fence experience
 

GMMAT:
After reading about your feelings re: high fence hunting I had to submit mine.....
Last year my new father in law called me and offered to take me to his brother's trophy ranch down in hill country Texas. They were doing their annual doe culling......I, of course, jumped at it. At the time I had no idea WHAT high fence hunting was........
I have to say, I have NEVER been to a nicer deer camp in my life.....They took me out to the blind in a covered Mule, I had my own guide, the blinds were carpeted with nice reclining chairs, and heated.....very, very decadent.
At six pm sharp, the feeder went off and about a hundred deer walked out. My guide said, "shoot that one, that one and that one".....and I did. It just wasn't right......almost like target shooting, except with deer. The guide told me that people call from Dallas and tell them that they want either a $10,000 deer or a $7,500 deer, they fly down and land on the ranch in their private plane, get taken to the blind, shoot the deer, go straight back to the plane without even getting close to the now dead deer and fly back to Dallas....all in about forty-five minutes!!!
I know they have to cull the Does out annually but I think I'm going to stay home next time. There's just something about the critters not being able to run away that gets to me.....

RE: My high fence experience
 

all though some high fenced hunts are no doubt easier than hunting in other places, most high fenced are on 1000s of acers so it doesnt really increase your chances by that much, and the deer can run for a very long time.
But i agree that kind of hunt you were on is wrong.

RE: My high fence experience
 

That pretty much sounds like all of the paid deer hunts that folks in my family have been on in Texas, and none of them were fenced operations. If it werent for timed feeders, there would be a LOT fewer big racks hanging on den walls.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Yea Bar, I don't mean to be critical of people that hunt that way.....It just wasn't for me......I think half of the enjoyment is going out knowing that there is a very very good chance you're not going to see anything, much less getto make a kill. On HF hunts, I think that percentage pretty much drops to nil........
They did do something cool, however. A couple of the hunters took some of the meat (I didn't) but most of the meat went to a local program there in the area. So I can see both sides of the story......If there's some idiot that would pay that much for a set of antlers here in Oklahoma, I don't think I would be raising cattle anymore..........

RE: My high fence experience
 

So if it doesn't increase you chancesmuch, why not take the fence down and make it fair chase. That excuse doesn'tfly with me. It's not hunting, it's a cheap excuse to go out and shoot a farm animal. I know a lot ofguys that will let you come shoot a cow for$10,000, and it's better eating. It shames me to think that"the greatest spokesman for our sport" takes part in this cowardice practice.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Another great "soul cleanser" is in the fact that we donated the meat to some worthy cause.B.S.[:'(]

What a joke! [:@]Like some how that justifies the unaccountable slaughter of a penned animal for your own fleeting moment of glory.

Why not go to the local Zoo and smoke a an old mature Polar bear. I'm sure your cost would be substantially lower than an actual licensed hunt an timesavings aloneit wouldmake it a no brainer.
And in your mind it could always be a fine trophy.Think of the stories you could tell.[:-]

RE: My high fence experience
 

i would much rather shoot targets than a live deer in a high fence

RE: My high fence experience
 

How can that even be enjoyable? I don't even have the mental capacity to see how it could be at all enjoyable or rewarding. I don't know what sickens me more...the act itself, or the fact that there's plenty of "clients" who see nothing wrong with it...actually they probably are PROUD of it.

I would love to simply say these people are killers, not hunters, and shouldn't be grouped with us, but unfortunately, the non-hunting public doesn't differentiate.[:@]

RE: My high fence experience
 

Well, it WAS a pretty good thread until the "I know everything", egotistical losers got involved......We really don't care WHAT your thoughts are on this. We're just amazed that you HAVE thoughts.......so bite me, banana boy.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Not you Mr. Hensler, the guy a couple of entries above you......

RE: My high fence experience
 

Leave your Internet balls at the door, I could be your neighbor and thats not how us big boys talk to one another.
I find stomping chicks on the day after Easter more rewarding than the unchallenged slaughter of hand feed deer. The two day old chicks still have some natural instincts to run when the killing starts.;)

RE: My high fence experience
 

I would like to hear more about opportunities to shoot polar bears at a zoo. I've always wanted to go polar bear hunting, but have heard that they can be really dangerous, and I am afraid of bears in general. So, it would be a wonderful confidence boost for me if i could shoot one in a cage. [:o]

And don't knock Easter chick stomping until you have tried it. I'm a real traditionalist in that I refuse to wear shoes or boots while doing it.[&:]

RE: My high fence experience
 

I'm not a big fan of high fenced hunts either...it just isn't hunting...but some people pay good money for those hunts and that is how some people make a living...its no different than a person that runs a farm for the animals to be slaughtered...and this guy was at least kind enough to donate some of the meat to the community...i think there are probably worse people out there my firend...just my thought on the topic.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Okie, it looks like that opened your eyes a bit to those operations. I have a friend who hunted in Texas recently and he said that method of hunting was to drive along on a mule with a sack of corn on the road. Follow the road out dropping corn every 10 yards or so until the bag is gone. Complete the circuit and walk the road back out and shoot the deer that have come into feed on the corn you just put out. Sounds more like a walk with a gun than a hunt to me.

BTW, did your guide said what happened to the $10K deer that the client left? Does it go to a taxidermist and get sent to the client or what?

RE: My high fence experience
 

IMHO Some high fence experiences are true hunts and some like yours aren't hunting at all. Now culling does in the herd wasn't really expected to be a true hunt ever in this story the way I see it. And if the this place caters to shooting instead of hunting then probably doesn't have much call for true hunting then you have to expect all the decadent stuff too. It might be interesting once you get to know the operation as to how large the acreage is if you can do a hunt.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Okieboy,
Obviously you haven't been on here much. There are a lot of opinions on this forum, and a lot of disagreements. But guess what, your opinions are just as important as anyone elses, and if you disagree, then keep your's to yourself. If you post on here and expect everyone to fall in behind you, you probably need to go somewhere else. Don't get me wrong, I encourage you to be a good member of this forum, but if you want to insult other people intelligence just because they disagree with something you did, take it elsewhere, because it's not welcome here. Just so you know, there are a lot of HUNTERS on here who disagree with high fence hunting, myself being one of them, and you should expect a post on this topic to generate a lot of speaking out against high fence hunting. Stick around, you'll learn.:D

RE: My high fence experience
 

High fence hunting is for ppl that don t know how to hunt.In other words rookies or sadists

RE: My high fence experience
 

while i don't agree with the fact they are using a fence to contain the once wild life, i don't no think that harsh reprarations are to be dealt upon okieboy, he said that he didn't enjoy the killing

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RE: My high fence experience
 

This is good stuff though. Great reading.

RE: My high fence experience
 

oh god not another ethics post

RE: My high fence experience
 

I'll tell all you macho hunters a story, and you dare to tell me this man was wrong.
A very dear friend of mine whose now 63yrs old, retired from the army special forces just 3yrs ago. He first joined the military at age 16, yes he got in illegally, but it was war time then. He's served in every major conflict since Vietnam. Been on many many secret missions, the ones you never hear about. He's done more for this country then most men alive today. Well he's had some health issues in past yr. , and was advised by his doctor to reduce his cholesterol intake, and suggested only eatting lean meat. He's always been a avid archery, muzzleloader, and rifle hunter. Him & I have pursued Elk w/bow in Colorado. With his health concerns he looked into purchasing Buffalo meat. Well its really expensive. So he looked into a high fenced hunt that had buffalo to shoot his own meat, and the price of this type hunt was a heck of alot cheaper for what he'd get, then buying it by the lb. So thats what he did. He'd never ever consider doing a high fenced hunt on a regular basis. But this made a heck of alot more sense for him in his state of condition. He told me he had a great time. Was treated excellent, and he did actually have to hunt theBuffalo several hrs, before he harvested it.
So to methere is a place for high fenced hunts in this world, and don't knock them until you understand every aspect of things.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Say its almost that time of the year again isn't it? Where are my rubber boots with the extra thick lug soles?

RE: My high fence experience
 

I've never hunted in a high fence before, but I have been inside of one.... Camp Peary (VA not Ohio.. spelled different). High fence is a realative term, you couldn't shoot a bullet from one end of this place to the other at a 45 degree angle... 10s of thousands of acres..... but the dogs, the poachers and the "other" deer are kept out. Its strictly managed and done well. I don't have the politcal swank to hunt on a FBI/CIA training facility, but my godfather does. He took me when I was fairly young, probably 16 in the summer time to help with a deer count (spotlighting and just counting.... no guns involved). I've never seen so many deer in my life. I think the lack of pressure, good nutrition (hundred acre plots of nothing but Bio Logic) and ability to control who and what comes and goes has a lot to do with it. So if you think about it that way..... anyone who has ever hunted on a military installation.... you are guilty of hunting inside a high fence...... hang your heads in shame the lot of you....:eek:

Most of the high fence operations that I know of have fences to keep things out.... not neccessarily to keep things in.... so long as the fence isn't playing a part in the hunt, I don't see the issue with it. You can hide a hell of a lot of deer on 1000 acres, nevermind 10,000.

If somebody wants to go shoot a deer in a pen (small inclosed area), hell I don't care go ahead if it makes you feel better. That way you can win the HNI big deer contest and impress all your friends and get your picture on a magazine cover to put in your avatar picture and write something about how big your nuts are in your signature line.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Some people were raised to hunt on public land, some were raised to hunt/shoot on high fenced land. For me my dad started me on public land at 9 years of age and to this day I have stayed with public land, I have hunted on private land here in California for hogs...but with no fences. For me, I would turn down a high fenced hunt. Just my opinion and beliefs.
There is a high fenced ranch here in Riverside County about 15 minutes from me where we can hunt hogs and exotics...I have lived here in California for 12 years, and we still drive 240mi north to hunt our hogs. I never think about going to hunt high fence..even though it would be easier and my kill is almost gaurenteed. On public land you have to do the scouting...and the hunt, how could you go without that! The preparation, and the going and the scouting are all key ingredients to the hunting experience.
IMO one is real hunting the other is target practice.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Of course 10,000 acres high fence in my mind is essentially no different than free range. I think some of the problem is when the acreage gets smaller. I'm not sure what would be the minimum but a friend of a friend with 1000 acres checked into high fencing it with a biologist and was told something to the effect that after about 7 years he would have deer inbreeding. I think any landowner has the right to make money with his land as he sees fit. However, and I'm assuming most states are same as Texas in this regard, the deer are a natural resource that belong to the people of the state of Texas. As landowners sees money to be made with high fence hunting, there are more and more going up each year, many only a few hundred acres. Its even getting to the point I'm aware of a few people who've considered it with less than 100 acres. As for feeders, anyone who's hunted them on any regularity can tell you the deer don't always come at all let alone on time. And when they do, you'll get does, yearlings, some small bucks. Once in a while a shooter. At least free range deer. I can see where some high fenced operations could be somewhat predictable. I don't like high fences at all and see no positive end results for the average hunter or hunting in general. I've thought about this and think what should happen is any landowner who wishes to high fence his land should be made to have his land cleared of native animals. He should be made to pay for a state biologist to certify his land clear, perhaps by helicopter, as that last fence goes up. Then he can buy animals to stock, with the money going to the state department of wildlife. Then he can have all the paid hunts he wants and anyone hunting would know up front they were "harvesting" artificial wildlife. I think the costs would deter some of the smaller landowners, would put money back into the departments, and "hunters" would be less likely to brag about their "trophies". What would be the drawbacks of all free range hunting? I can't think of any legitimate arguments. But if high fence was a good thing, one could surmise we would be well off with all land high fenced. Now think about that and would that be beneficial to us or our kids?

RE: My high fence experience
 

High fence is one hell of an expensive thing. In most parts of the world, surrounding your 1000+ acres with 8' high fence that would keep a deer out/in would cost more than your 1000+ acres did. In fact, I throughly suspect that is the plain and simple reason that you don't see more high fences.

RE: My high fence experience
 

I have hunted on a high fence place the last 4 years in West Texas that is around 3000 acres it is MLD and have only taken 2 does won't pay the price for the bucks but there are times the only thing you see are the birds. Maybe a black buck 100 yards away yea they no were the feeders are but if there are acorns on the ground they ain't coming to the feeders. And it is just as much hunting as free range 3000 acres is 3000 acres weather there is a fence around it or not most deer won't travel that far anyway. Just my 2 cents:)

RE: My high fence experience
 

I'm guessing you haven't traveled much through Texas. Lots of high fences and more going up yearly. And more and more are less than 1000 acres, some considerably. And there are quite a few people who will spend money when they think they can make it back. I can't see it going away anytime soon. At least here in Texas. There is a lot of scrub land that's not much good for anything but deer, turkey, and hogs. Not a lot of way to make money off of it.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Then why put a fence around it? If people want to go out and hunt high fence hunts go right ahead. But don't ever say they are just as much hunting as free range hunting, i dont care what the acres. I really dont care how people hunt but when people say high fenced hunts are just as challenging then why do they do them? Its because there is benefits to it. Plain and simple.

RE: My high fence experience
 

I like aeroslingers idea. If you want to do high fencing, fine, but do it with stocked deer that you have paid for, rather than trying to cofine public property. Of course, to be fair, one could also make the argument that any landowner who maintains a large amount of wild game habitat isdoing somewhat of a public serviceand perhaps is entitled to the special privilege of high fencing. Tough call.

RE: My high fence experience
 

Hunting is getting more and more commercial every year. Remember when people had to actually go out, learn about and have a high level of respect for the outdoors and all of its critters before having a chance to take an animal? Well i guess you can get a little more up close and personal understanding and respect for an animal when it can eat out of your hand. But what corporate big shot would want to get that close to a "dirty" little animal? Hell, he wont even go look at the damn thing after he kills it! Okieboy, this is in no waya remarktowards you, but most high fenced operations are a damn joke.

RE: My high fence experience
 

If they back them into the corner for you is it extra?????????

RE: My high fence experience
 

Pretty good, I'm glad we got back to the humor!!!

Yeah I had my felling hurt once by bj, can't take it too serious... Right sunshine!
Some folk lyk ta skru wit ya! I think it's all in fun, no worries.

What caliber is good for chick hunts???

RE: My high fence experience
 

The mystery to me is how can you call it "hunting" when just like "Ragu" you already know its in there.:eek:

But as far chick stomppin attire goes just about any boots that you deem appropriate foot wear for a barn dance will work just fine on chicks of either species.[:-]

RE: My high fence experience
 

Obviously it is not hunting just shooting. It is what it is.

RE: My high fence experience
 

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RE: My high fence experience
 

Bawa,

Using barn dancing boots for stomping Easter chicks is lightweight to the point of being a joke as a sport. If you had any cojones you would join the ranks of we elite traditionalists. Most of us stomp chicks barefooted. However, in some instances we will permit flip flops or very thin soled slip-on deck shoes. If you are afraid to run with the big dogs then keep your butt on the porch[:@]

RE: My high fence experience
 

Okieboy,

What it all boils down to: "who do you hunt for?" Trust me, nobody is getting in that coffin with you! You have to decide what makes you happy. You willface many trails and tribulations. In the end, You will have to makeyour ownjudgement calls.

I have hunted both inside and outsidehigh fence. Personally, I could care less whether I'm thought of as a hunter (just don't call me inexperienced). That's not why I hunt. I am here to challenge myself and no one else. I have hunted species of wildlife, inside high fence, which were exponentially more difficult to killthan any free ranging species.I have seen enough to know that most of these pre-conceived notions that many boneheads possess are incorrect!InTexas, for example, I have been to areas where the deer population outside the fence was 229 animals persq. mile. Whereas, inside the fence it was 15 animals per sq. mile. Now mind you, I have never hunted white-tailed deer behind fence inTexas (I have seen them while hunting exotics), but you tell me, of the two scenarios, which one do you think isgoing to be easier? In both scenarios, the deer have had minimal contact with humans and can eluded hunter's easily for days/weeks/months/years.I have experienced both ways... outside the fence was pretty darn easy.

I have hunted the state of New York during the shotgun/muzzy season. I have never been so afraid in my life. I counted "one thousand, two thousand,..." between gun shots. I never made it past three thousand andwas forced tostart over! This went on from sun up until three in the afternoon! I even had a slug hit the tree two feet above my head. Despite "no trespassing" signs on every tree 15 feet apart and completely surround the 700 acreas, we still had trespassers invading posted land. I sort of wished that land, at that point, was high fenced. It would have been a heck of a lot safer! The same thing happened to me while deer hunting with my bow in Pennsylvania. What a joke! I was there for a week. I huntedfour days on private land and watch as the neighboring hunt club trespassed by mytreestand on their numerous deer drives. Not once, not twice, but twice each day!The "posted no hunting" signs had little affect! The police were finally called! I spent the remainder of the week hunting public gound. Same story...a sea of hunters passing every ten minutes. There wasn't a deer to be had anywhere, especially near me! Hmmmm....take down the high fence...the short ones didn't seem to stop anything (poachers)...And neither do the high ones (read on)!

I hunted recently near and outsideWobern Abbey in the United Kingdom. Chinese water deer and Reeves Muntjac were released within the confines of the abbey back in 1870. Now, the walls around the abbey are twelve feethigh and three feet thick (I've seen them). These are little deer mind you. They stand no more than 30" above the ground. So, the question I pose is simple. If the deer cannot escape, then why did I shoot one water deer and two muntjac? They had to come from somewhere? Maybe aliens dropped them?

In Namibia, I watch three bull eland clear an eight foot high boundry fence with ease. Again, the fence was there to keep out poachers. In New Zealand, I killed a rogue fallow deer (from outside the fence)that wastrying to bred with the does located inside the fence. I watched it jump the fence and killed him within twenty yards of the fence-I was there to do that job. I also killed aferal billy goat that slide through the fence like a hot knife going through butter. If you know anything about pigs, then you know that man has yet to creat a fence to contain them. I could go on and on with the examples...

In eight attempts to hunt an axis deer. I have failed miserably. I will be going for my ninth at the end of May.

Let me set the scenario.

Axis deer are not indigenous to the United States. They are found scattered here and there, some are free ranging escapees, most are on game farms. They are actually so well managed that many are being exported back to their native country to replenish an almost extinct population.

I want the challenge of killing one with my bow and have modest means. I cannot fly to Australia, South America, nor Asia. I do not have the connections with private landowners and therefore cannot trespass to acquire one. My only present option is/was to hunt a game ranch. The hunter's spirit within me struggled with the concept of hunting behind fence. In the end, I came to grips with the fact that everything has a degree of confinement. The size of that confinement , in my opinion, certainly became a factor of "fair chase". I ,therefore, selected a ranch with an enclosed area encompassing about 100 square miles-maybe more. Animals literally are born and die of natural causes with minimal contact with humans. I then quietly sit and observe. While dabbling, I watch as deer move from one side of the fence to the other. I think to myself, "If this is the case, then where is the confinement?" I venture inside. I put my best stalking skills to work-camera in hand. What I found...the stalking of this beast is no easy task. The cover is extremely thick, the animals are extremely wary, and there is plenty of natural food and water distributed throughout the ranch. I decide to put the camera down and pick up the bow. If it were so easy, I would have an axis deer to show for my enormous efforts. Killing a free ranging white-tailed deer, elk, or caribouis again exponentially easier. Keep in mind., I could care less about the deer's antler size. I'd even shoot a doe!

I select a time of year when rainis abundant. Thus, food and waterare abundant. I elect to hunt where the coveris thick and the chances of sneaking an arrow throughare greatly reduced-animalscan easily elude me. It's had to be a clean shot or no shot. I elevated the degree of difficulty and it seems to work. When and if I am ever successful, I will in no way claim this to be a free-ranging animal. Is it a challenge? I would say very much so. I am patiently waiting for my chance to hunt a free ranging axis (I haven't received the invite yet).I wouldlove to have a basis for comparison!

I guess the point I'm trying to make, "I've been there done that". There hasn't been a single time when I thought the fence hunt was any easier than a free range hunt. I've been on Lion hunts both inside and outside fence. In both cases, I was accompanied by a conservation officer who was there to certify the hunt as fair chase. One was not any easier than the other. I have spent 42 days trying to kill a Zebra with my bow (in Namibia and S. Africa behind enormous high fence operations where the animals have plenty of room to elude hunters). Again, I have failed miserably. Killing one with a rifle would have been child's play and not for me.

I love a challenge, I love to hunt, but I hate spending money! There is only so much in one's own backyard. At some point, if you are like me, you will need to lauch yourself into another arena. Go have fun. Spend some go quality time with your friends and family. You should never let hunting become a pissing match competiton. Hunt for you!

In the end some animal dies...

You can call it hunting, culling, shooting, whatever. You have to be comfortable with you.

Good luck with your endeavors!

p.s Envy sucks!

RE: My high fence experience
 

I am with you brother! It's very sad what people will do for an image. You need not be ashamed my friend!