No most just think of ourselves, this is America

LCC I agree completely with you. If we took HCH view we could just delete the ethics thread that is 30 pages

I keep reading everyone's comments about hunting becoming a sport for the rich and people leasing hunting ground are the reason. I will tellyou that where I hunting in Illinois, leasing ground is the cheapest way for the common man to have good private ground to hunt. If you really want to start blaming people, start looking at the outfitters. They are the ones that are driving up the prices of leases. As I states, my first lease was for $1500 5 years ago. I have since lost that ground to an outfitter who came in and offered $8000 for it. The next season I was leased a different peice of property, 256 acres with only 13 acres of timber, paid $1500 for it. The very next season it was leased by a different outfitter for $5000. I then leased 165 acres with a buddy, we paid $5000 for the property. We hunted it 2 years. We were told in December that yet another outfitter has come in and offered $12,000 for the property, but he would lease it us for $10,000. Neither of us have that kind of money, so on a new piece of ground yet again. Outfitters are the ones that are paying stupid money for the leases, but then again that can. With people coming to Illinois paying $5000+ for a week of deer hunting per person. If you really want to look at what is ruining the sport, start looking there and not the local hunter that is just trying to secure a place to deer hunt.

Kickin,

Keep in mind that the ball starts rolling the minute that someone first offers someone money to lease their land for hunting. Right now, in the county where i own my land, leasing is still not very common and 10 to 20 bucks an acre is standard, which people should be able to afford. However, I have no doubts that the cost per acre will double or triple over the next decade.

Yea shame on my Relatives and me for becoming friends with our property owners and not leasing. Guys like youmake me glad to not live in MI.[:'(] Come on out elk hunting here in NM Germ, I will only charge you $300 a day for my walltent, and $10.00 a cup of coffee. Man's got a making a livin somehow and my coffee and tent weren't free.

I promise you that the cost will double and triple. That is way it started with me. However, the local guy leasing 100-200 acres is not the problem. The cost keeps going up because outfitters are leasing more and more ground. They can because they can charge more and more to the out-of-state hunter. Hadley Creek Outfitter has more than 30,000 acres they run hunts on. That is 30,000 acres that only those willing to pay $4,000 per week are allowed to hunt on. How many doors cannot be knocked on now in that 30,000 acres? The local guy is getting screwed and leasing ground is he last hope.

And for those people that think a land owner is double dipping because he is leaser are messed up in the head. If you are a carptener and build a deck on the side, are you double dipping? I don't think so. The land owner is just taking something that is of value and making a little money. Get rid of the outfitter and the out-of-state hunters and you will quickly see the lease prices drop and lot more doors to knock on to get free permission. But as long as The Drury Brothers and every other guy on T.V. is making a killing on big bucks, there will be outfitters and those willing to pay the stupid prices to kill a monster and lease prices will continue to climb.

Dude that was a complimate, meaning if what you stated above was true, we would not have to worry about crossing a property line[&:]
I live in reality, it is what it is, and I understand why. Not only the greed of some that is the issue, it's self entitlement mentality of some that is part of the bigger issue.
I am glad you do not live in MI either, but would gladly take you fishing or on a black bear hunt I am nice that way even though i live east of the Miss.

Working for them is payment. You are a leaser, you just don't call it that

Kickin,

I dont have a problem with a farmer double dipping by farming and leasing as long as it doesnt involve subsidies. If they do do that then it is kind of like that same carpenter working fulltime at the same time that he is drawing unemployment and food stamps.

Pretty soon he will not want to live in Ohio either[8D]

Property Taxes 5000 dollars
Fuel Bill 3600 dollars
Combine 100,000 dollars

Getting a load of would from HCH for hunting, Priceless

Good analogy, can't put it any better.

And by the way Kickin - it is if the Union catches the carpenter.