RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

Tell it to someone who believes you. I have been a dealer for most every brand out there, and I am still good friends with dealers from most brands. I trust the info they give me over your observations;)

Dan

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

could this be due to sales numbers though? I have absolutely no idea, but I'd be willing to bet BT sells atleast 5 x the bows HCA does. this would kind of even out the skewed numbers.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

The PSE X Force is the fastest bow that I have personally saw shot threw the chrono.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

So you have seen more limb fractures with High Country bows than with Bowtech bows?

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

I fully suspect that has something to do with it. Under that line of thinking... which is quite honestly truth, you could also say that there are more satisfied Bowtech customers than TOTAL HCA customers. At least in the last 10 years (which is as long as BT has been around anyhow).

Seems to me here lately that Bowtech is the new Mathews when it comes to over-zealous clientel...... [popcorn]

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

GEE REALLY.... OH MY GOD....

Yes Rob I know that. But the point here that no one will ever accept is that one company has enough confidence in their product to go beyond what the industry has set as their "standard" (which changes every 10 years or so... and you know that), and raised the bar for everyone else.

I'm a big fan of bowtechs... I shoot the HCA Iron Mace for a couple of reasons though:

1) I was due for a new bow in 2007... not everyone gets free bowtechs... I don't know what a corporate staff is... but if you are in need of waterfowl or turkey hunters... I asked first.

2) A very good friend of mine started a sort of shade tree bowshop, and one of the lines he decided to carry was HCA as there are no dealers in our state (though there are now three). In order to help him get established, I bought one of the two bows they required him to pre-order.

3) The trinary cam on the HCA is very similar (if not the same, but I'm sure you know) to the binary cam Bowtech uses.

Honestly, if Dean wouldn't have gotten into HCA... I'd probably be shooting an 07 Alligence right now. I just enjoy playing the devil's advocate. I'm really being objective here.... I could care less what anyone shoots.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

My view from the Peanut Gallery:

It's real simple, HCA says (with their actions):"Go ahead and shoot 3 gpp, we're confident that it won't explode. If it does, we got your back."

Everybody elsesays (with their actions): "Shooting under 5 gpp puts our product at-risk of failure, so we refuse to extend the warranty beyond that threshold."

Actions > Words

I trust that the manufacturers have conducted sufficient testing to be keenly aware of what their products can withstand before experiencing an increased risk of limb failure. Those confidences are reflected in their warranty. Plain and simple. [:-]

From my understanding, Elite was razor-close to doing a 3-4 gpp warranty on their '08's, but decided to back out at the last second, when they realized that they would barely be able to keep up with existing orders already (they didn't need the added sales incentive). In the near future, I don't think they'll hesitate to make theleap. I also understand that PSE was strongly considering extending their warranty to the 4-4.25 range.

The thing is, arrow manufacturers are going to force the bow manufacturers' collective hands . . . soon. There are several manufacturers who already have great hunting shafts hitting the market that you simply can't shoot out of a 5 gpp bow (Victory HV, Gold Tip UL). These shafts will provide ridiculous performance at around 4.5 gpp in a hunting scenario. Eventually, people are going to figure that out. It's the biggest "secret" that the mainstream manufacturers don't wanttheir core consumersto know.

That's why the bowtech blowhards (especially the guys with vested financial interests) are so quick to scoff at my test results and try to dismiss it as some kind of nonsense.I think it's kinda comical . . . and pathetic. All at the same time.

Trust me, Ihave no allegiance to HCA.The fact is, they're the only company out there right now who is providing a product that can maximize current arrow technology. That's why I bought their bow.The only thing I ever got from HCA was a few arrows to try out - the owner sent me an email and said "try these, trust me." I did andI did. 369.

A while back, somebody developed a 3.5" turkey load, but there were only a few guns on the market chambered to handle that round. Guess what? I bought one. It doesn't matter what comes first, the chicken or the egg. All that matters is that you get there.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

QS, I used to be an Oregon dealer. They dry fired their bows umpteen gillion times. Did I ever have one Blow up? You bet!! Where are they today? I was also an HC dealer and saw 3 times the limb failures on HC than I did on Oregons...................

O wait a minute! That could be because I sold 10 times the HC bows. You keep beating on concrete with a sledge hammer and it Will Break;)

Enjoy!![8D]

Dan

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

That's why they abandoned their old limbmaking operation and went to Barnsdale limbs, Dan. But you knew that. You always seem to ignore facts that undermine your own "financially-biased" opinions. LOL

HCA's old limb construction method is very similar to Bowtech's current method (you knew that, but intentionally omitted that fact). Barnsdale (Elite/HCA) and Hoyt are lightyears ahead of Bowtech in limb construction. (you knew that too.)

I guess that's why they bribe internet blowhards with free bows to come online and sing the praises of their products all day everyday. Sad.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

Did I say I had an unusual amount of limb failures from HC?? Read it again! I imagine new owners has more to do with their current limb choice than anything else. You would not believe some of the stories I could tell you about Limb Failures!! and they were warranted anyway. Another time maybe;)

My Opinions are not financially based[8D]Shows you know very little about me:D

Dan

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

I shot for HCA for 7 years (93-00), I still have 4 of their bows, the newest one being a 1998 model. I used to hot rod them for 3-d, shooting 321fps @ 5gpp. I have never had a limb failure in the 15 years I've owned them.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

Those are the old HCA limbs right Greg? I had very few limb failures when I sold HCA and there are some stories behind some of the few I did see. Like I stated before I am sure the switch in limbs had more to do with switch in owners than any other factor. Any Limb problems I experienced as a dealer was warranted by HCA even when they should not have been. I've seen Bows Dry fired, Slammed in Truck doors, and melted in front of a kerosene heater. Sometimes you wonder what guys are thinking. All limbs made today will take a lot of punishment, but that doesn't mean we should punish them. Really!! What's the use in it?

Dan

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

But if they're made to withstand the "punishment" then they aren't really being punished. Just...used.

Right?

If a bow is waranteed under 5gpp then the bow can, by all means, be shot with an arrow under 5gpp. Without it being considered punishment.

If a bow is said to only be able to withstand 5gpp and no less, then that would be considered punishment.

Right?

I'm just making sure I have my facts straight.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

You really believe Bow limbs today don't take punishment?? Everybody has their theories on marketing.I've seen lots of Bows(all brands)dry fired with No Ill effects. Does that mean we should dry fire our bow? I won't argue this fact but all limbs fail, and neither is largely superior in failure rates over the other. Honestly most of the True Limb failures I've seen were operator errors. If anyone is comfortable shooting 3gpp out of their Bow. I wouldn't be spouting off about wearing armor or flying pieces. You know what they say about living in Glass houses and throwing rocks;)

Not sure what facts you think you have? I believe all limbs are absorbing punishment on every shot. If you shoot 5gpp or over you are just hitting them with a smaller hammer. You think concrete won't break? Hit ita few times with a sledge hammer everyday in the same spotand eventually....................

Dan

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

Of course all limbs take punishment, you would have to be an idiot to not understand that. (And I know you're not calling me an idiot.)

Its just what degree of punishment they're taking.

Is concrete waranteed to withstand being hammered on by a sledgehammer? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make there, Dan. Concrete isn't made to withstand being hammered on by a sledgehammer.

HCA's/Elite's limbs are waranteed to take the level of "punishment" dealt out by arrows weighing under 5gpp. Right?

Not an argument I'm getting into. I'm backing out now, have fun.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

I guess by your own conclusions some Limbs shooting 3gpp are just being use, and others are being punished:eek::eek:

Dan

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

lmao

I love how anytime someone wants to argue on here they nitpick about the words someone uses when they honestly don't have anything left to say.

Way to be awesome, Dan.

Have a super day. :eek:

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

You said it I didn't;)I've had a lot of experience in warranties of all kinds in several different fields. If it makes anyone feel comfortable having a warranty that says.............................................. ..

That's a good thing I suppose;)

Dan

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

Yep. From Webster's: Punishment: "Harsh or injurous treatment".

If something is designed, intended or warrantied to take that level of use then it is not being "punished". If it wasn't, then it is... it's that simple.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

Isn't it Hoyt's new Katara that is advertised as being able to withstand 1,000 dry fires without a hitch? It would follow that this bow would be rated for arrows lighter than 5 gpp . . . . . .

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

It sure didn't take long for this topic to turn into a my limbs bigger oops I mean faster than yours thread.:D

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

My bow is not that fast, but it does have a pretty good size stabilizer on it.

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

590 fps out of the 2015 Black Ice GTR prototype. [8D]

And uh, oh yeah, there was like this loud sonic boom noise and the target caught on fire. It was cool!

I know you don't believe me but I don't know what else to tell ya.....

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

X-Force, 344fps

RE: What is the fastest you ever saw??
 

Hilarious to see all the Blowtech panties get in a wad over something so stupid..................the speed game is over. Tons of bows out there are capable of pushing arrows 340+............I saw a guy in his 60's last month shooting an APABlack Mamba at 342fps........and shooting it WELL!!!