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Situation Ethics????........2 Part Question .....**UPDATED WITH twils real life situation
11-06-2008, 08:30 PM
#331
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 150
RE: Ok Ethics Police ........2 Part Question .................................................
My property buts up to the neighbors with a single row of tree's seperating the two. The owner lives in another state and in 10 years I have seen him here once. I see deer on his property all the time,(and turkeys)just on the other side of those tree's. My wife is always telling me to shoot one, but I always refuse. I put my stand in the seperating row of trees, but turn it in to face my property and take my chances that one will cross over. It may be a little frustrating knowing there right there and I could take one and no one would know, But I will not ever lauch an arrow past that tree line no matter the size of the deer. I wouldnt be setting a very good example for my kids, who are very interested in my hunting. If I cant do it the right way, Id rather not do it than have to explain why it was o.k. to shoot a deer on someone elses property. If one ran in there after being shot though, I would have no problem retrieving it. ( even if he said to keep out.)
11-11-2012, 12:54 PM
#332
Spike
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2
Because I'm a good guy, I'd ask first. . . that's just how I roll.BUT if I asked politely and was stilldenied, I'd boldly stroll rightpast thePOSTED signsand retrieve what is mine, as I am legally entitled to do.
Let me explain:
Hurdle #1: Isadeer carcassreally "yours" if you haven't recovered it yet? I say it is. Read Pierson v. Post. Personally, I believe that the Pierson case (and its progeny) unequivocally establishesa hunter's property right in the animal as soon as it has been mortally wounded.So, yourrights vest at the precise instant thatthe arrow piercesthe vitals - long before you ever unsheath your knife or harness up the drag rope.
[blockquote]quote:
GAME "‘- ANIMALS "‘- HUNTING "‘- LEGAL RIGHT OF HUNTERS TO TAG ANIMALS SHOT BY OTHER HUNTERS "‘-CRIMES "‘- LARCENY "‘- TAGGING OF AN ANIMAL BAGGED BY ANOTHER.
1. A hunter who lawfully shoots a game animal acquires a vested legal right in such animal provided he continues to manifest an immediate intention to possess it by exercising actual physical possession and by tagging.
2. Where a second hunter shoots and tags a dying animal bagged by another while the first hunter is attempting to reduce it to possession, the second hunter is guilty of larceny if all other elements of the crime are present.
[/blockquote]
This interpretation (authored by the Attorney General's office) states that a hunter has a vested property right (for larceny purposes)in an animal as soon as he SHOOTS it.Note: you don't have to retrieve it, or tag it. As long as you manifest the immediate intent to do so, the property rights attach once the lethal wound is present. If you go back and read the Pierson case, you'll see where the AG is coming from. It's all in there.
So for those keeping score at home, we now have A, who shoots a deer on his property, mortally wounding it, and it staggers into B's lot and expires. A has a vested property right in that deer - tagged or not. He is "entitled" to it. It is his personal property. But, can he trespass to get it?
__________________________________________
Hurdle #2: Now, let's talk about "Waste." Legal Waste.
In most jurisdictions, an unauthorized entry (you guys would probably call it a "trespass")by A onto B's land to prevent the waste of A's personal propertyis a permissible entry by necessity.A's meat rotting away on B's landwould constitute such a "waste." This doctrine has been in use since the dark ages.
Why? It's a private necessity, facilitated bythe exigent circumstances surroundingmy need to recover the animal (my personal property) quickly so as to prevent waste and spoilage of my meat. "Waste" is a legal term, and the courts actively protect a property owners' right to prevent his own assets from going to waste. Necessity is a complete defense to "tresspassing."
Let me explain:
Hurdle #1: Isadeer carcassreally "yours" if you haven't recovered it yet? I say it is. Read Pierson v. Post. Personally, I believe that the Pierson case (and its progeny) unequivocally establishesa hunter's property right in the animal as soon as it has been mortally wounded.So, yourrights vest at the precise instant thatthe arrow piercesthe vitals - long before you ever unsheath your knife or harness up the drag rope.
[blockquote]quote:
GAME "‘- ANIMALS "‘- HUNTING "‘- LEGAL RIGHT OF HUNTERS TO TAG ANIMALS SHOT BY OTHER HUNTERS "‘-CRIMES "‘- LARCENY "‘- TAGGING OF AN ANIMAL BAGGED BY ANOTHER.
1. A hunter who lawfully shoots a game animal acquires a vested legal right in such animal provided he continues to manifest an immediate intention to possess it by exercising actual physical possession and by tagging.
2. Where a second hunter shoots and tags a dying animal bagged by another while the first hunter is attempting to reduce it to possession, the second hunter is guilty of larceny if all other elements of the crime are present.
[/blockquote]
This interpretation (authored by the Attorney General's office) states that a hunter has a vested property right (for larceny purposes)in an animal as soon as he SHOOTS it.Note: you don't have to retrieve it, or tag it. As long as you manifest the immediate intent to do so, the property rights attach once the lethal wound is present. If you go back and read the Pierson case, you'll see where the AG is coming from. It's all in there.
So for those keeping score at home, we now have A, who shoots a deer on his property, mortally wounding it, and it staggers into B's lot and expires. A has a vested property right in that deer - tagged or not. He is "entitled" to it. It is his personal property. But, can he trespass to get it?
__________________________________________
Hurdle #2: Now, let's talk about "Waste." Legal Waste.
In most jurisdictions, an unauthorized entry (you guys would probably call it a "trespass")by A onto B's land to prevent the waste of A's personal propertyis a permissible entry by necessity.A's meat rotting away on B's landwould constitute such a "waste." This doctrine has been in use since the dark ages.
Why? It's a private necessity, facilitated bythe exigent circumstances surroundingmy need to recover the animal (my personal property) quickly so as to prevent waste and spoilage of my meat. "Waste" is a legal term, and the courts actively protect a property owners' right to prevent his own assets from going to waste. Necessity is a complete defense to "tresspassing."
You are definitely right on re: the law. I just had this happen to me - double lung/heart shot deer ran onto state-owned ground after the shot and was taken by some hunters hunting the state ground right near the border of our property (private). Just out of curiousity, what was the state in question that had the Attorney General's opinion that you cited.
Thanks.
11-11-2012, 07:20 PM
#333
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: columbus,indiana
Posts: 182
Im not going to sugar coat it ya the politically correct answer is no I wont shoot that 200 inch giant ill let him walk and tell a story so everyone will say im an idiot. The temptation would be great and if you shoot him how do you know he doesnt jump the fence to your side? The right thing would be not to shoot but myself like several others here probably couldnt control themselves and would take the kill shot o the BIGGEST buck weve ever seen. LOL gotta love the scenario questions theres your honest answer.
12-09-2012, 06:12 PM
#335
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 214
I simply would not put myself in either situation... If you know a piece of property is posted why would you put a stand that close to it? I am sure that with a little scouting you may find that big deer crossing the fence or better yet... Put a small food plot in so as to pull that deer away from the fenced/posted property! Put that food plot far enough away that the deer will expire long before he reaches the fence!!!!
12-09-2012, 10:41 PM
#336
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Very S. Indiana
Posts: 155
1: Don't shoot, but I would deffinately be giving him a reason to cross that line to give me the chance (Has been played out this year with me already)
2: Shoot and call the Game warden (Fair chase laws in my state allow HIM to go recover my deer and possibly repremand the a$$ neighbor that laws do affect him) and wait till he arrives to help get that hoss across the line.
2: Shoot and call the Game warden (Fair chase laws in my state allow HIM to go recover my deer and possibly repremand the a$$ neighbor that laws do affect him) and wait till he arrives to help get that hoss across the line.
