It'll be a cold day in he....
02-06-2003, 07:44 PM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
hc4runner,no,I am a toolmaker in Henderson and we grind carbon for electrodes to burn steel.
Thundermug,you are correct there is a difference between fiber and dust.I would think that a pure dust would be more dangerous than a mixture but I could be mistaken.The rest of your comments actually backed up what I was saying about splintering and cutting you.
This whole argument about the dangers is like saying not to eat a deer shot with a lead bullet because you might get lead poison.
Come on guys get a grip.Use what you want and have confidence in it.
The best long range shooters in the world use a combination of carbon and aluminum because there are positives to both.
Thundermug,you are correct there is a difference between fiber and dust.I would think that a pure dust would be more dangerous than a mixture but I could be mistaken.The rest of your comments actually backed up what I was saying about splintering and cutting you.
This whole argument about the dangers is like saying not to eat a deer shot with a lead bullet because you might get lead poison.
Come on guys get a grip.Use what you want and have confidence in it.
The best long range shooters in the world use a combination of carbon and aluminum because there are positives to both.
02-06-2003, 08:22 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Your odds of splintering a Gold Tip on an animal are roughly equivalant to the odds of building a snow man in the bowls of hell!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
There must be an occassional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they?
Your odds of splintering a Gold Tip on an animal are roughly equivalant to the odds of building a snow man in the bowls of hell!
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
There must be an occassional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they?
02-06-2003, 09:04 PM
#23
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vernon Hills IL USA
Posts: 382
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
[/quote]
There must be an occassional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they?
[/quote]
I've had one goldtip break when I spined a doe and she fell on it. It cracked(splintered) rather than broke. That was on a 5575. That was the only carbon I've broken on an animal. Though it hasn't happened on an animal. I have noticed that on the 7595's when they do break they don't splinter, they seem to break clean. While I certainly wouldn't avoid carbons for safety reasons, I do think that the heavier spine, thickness of the 7595's are less likely to splinter. Although that wasn't why I selected that shaft I do feel more comfortable with that choice in that regard.
There must be an occassional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they?
[/quote]
I've had one goldtip break when I spined a doe and she fell on it. It cracked(splintered) rather than broke. That was on a 5575. That was the only carbon I've broken on an animal. Though it hasn't happened on an animal. I have noticed that on the 7595's when they do break they don't splinter, they seem to break clean. While I certainly wouldn't avoid carbons for safety reasons, I do think that the heavier spine, thickness of the 7595's are less likely to splinter. Although that wasn't why I selected that shaft I do feel more comfortable with that choice in that regard.
02-07-2003, 03:25 AM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jax beach Fl. usa
Posts: 4,031
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Actually I haven't switched yet cause my setup is fine with me. I was just surprised at the data my research uncovered! However you have me curious once again. Is anyone avoiding carbons out of fear?
FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!
What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about?
I dont think anyone is seriously avoiding carbons for safety reasons. Are they?
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Actually I haven't switched yet cause my setup is fine with me. I was just surprised at the data my research uncovered! However you have me curious once again. Is anyone avoiding carbons out of fear?
FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!
What if the "Hokey Pokey" really is what it's all about?
02-07-2003, 05:07 AM
#25
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lehigh County PA USA
Posts: 12,157
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
IBM,
Yes, I had a carbon arrow explode on me last year..as I was releasing the bowstring. The actual cause though is uncertain....ie, whether it was the cable that snapped thus breaking the arrow or whether the carbon arrow actually failed. The folks at Hoyt did an analysis of string/cable as well as the cable guard. Their take was that the carbon arrow broke, thus causing the cable damage...but I am not so sure. Regardless, that is the only time I have had that happen in all the years I have shot carbons and I was in no way injured...other than my pride...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.
On the other hand, I have seen plenty of ICS carbons from all of the big companies that were bent and not broken. One or more of the internal layers of carbon broke. This was not visible by bending the arrow to check for splintering but it was visible by looking down the full length of the arrow from the nock end.
I have been experimenting with Beman ICS hunters for the last month or two and haven't run into that problem with them yet. However, I am sure that I will over time as I believe the problem to be because of degradation of the carbon fiber over time with use.
My opinion...if you shoot alot of ICS carbons then I think it is smart to replace them every year.
Yes, I had a carbon arrow explode on me last year..as I was releasing the bowstring. The actual cause though is uncertain....ie, whether it was the cable that snapped thus breaking the arrow or whether the carbon arrow actually failed. The folks at Hoyt did an analysis of string/cable as well as the cable guard. Their take was that the carbon arrow broke, thus causing the cable damage...but I am not so sure. Regardless, that is the only time I have had that happen in all the years I have shot carbons and I was in no way injured...other than my pride...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>.
On the other hand, I have seen plenty of ICS carbons from all of the big companies that were bent and not broken. One or more of the internal layers of carbon broke. This was not visible by bending the arrow to check for splintering but it was visible by looking down the full length of the arrow from the nock end.
I have been experimenting with Beman ICS hunters for the last month or two and haven't run into that problem with them yet. However, I am sure that I will over time as I believe the problem to be because of degradation of the carbon fiber over time with use.
My opinion...if you shoot alot of ICS carbons then I think it is smart to replace them every year.
02-07-2003, 07:11 AM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Memphis TN USA
Posts: 3,445
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>There must be an occasional snow storm in hell! I''m sure I'm not the only one who's had a goldtip shatter (splinter) by hitting the opposite leg of a deer (no passthru) and having the deer shatter it when it takes off running. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
You probably better wait a while before you call Satan and tell him that you are heading his way with a snow shovel<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I personally just don't believe that. I don't believe that you took a <font color=blue>perfectly good </font id=blue>Gold Tip arrow and had it splinter on a deer. With out a signed confession from God I won't ever believe it. I have just seen to many Gold Tips hit trees, steel drums, and concrete. You may have shot a Gold Tip that was already cracked or that had internal layers broke and you continued to shoot it or some other extenuating circumstance. Hell, I even bought some beach front property from a guy in Arizona but I ain't buying that<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
You probably better wait a while before you call Satan and tell him that you are heading his way with a snow shovel<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I personally just don't believe that. I don't believe that you took a <font color=blue>perfectly good </font id=blue>Gold Tip arrow and had it splinter on a deer. With out a signed confession from God I won't ever believe it. I have just seen to many Gold Tips hit trees, steel drums, and concrete. You may have shot a Gold Tip that was already cracked or that had internal layers broke and you continued to shoot it or some other extenuating circumstance. Hell, I even bought some beach front property from a guy in Arizona but I ain't buying that<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."
02-07-2003, 08:02 AM
#27
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: McCall Idaho USA
Posts: 753
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
My son and I have been hunting with carbons now for 6yrs and have never had a problem with them , for that matter our whole hunting camp has used them for years also, again never a problem. The only carbons I've seen break (never bend ) have been when we hit a rock, and not just a glancing blow I mean dead on. They're defenitley 10 times stronger than any aluminum I've ever owned. And I have nothing against aluminum. If one did blow up for some unknown reason would I quit using them, no, no more than I would quit hunting with a bow if a bow blew up on me at full draw. That has happened to me twice, both times the top limbs went south, lucky I was'nt hurt, but it did'nt stop me from hunting with a bow. Dang old PSE anyway. I'll bet it would'nt stop none of you either. elknut1.
www.elknut.com
Bugling Bulls & Beyond!
www.elknut.com
Bugling Bulls & Beyond!
02-07-2003, 08:58 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Onamia,MN.
Posts: 1,375
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
I would like to point out that when it comes time to get the broadheads tuned for hunting and your are practicing with them--DO NOT SHOOT TWO CARBON ARROWS AT THE SAME SPOT WITH BROADHEADS--you can cut the shaft and not know it until it is too late.
02-07-2003, 09:23 AM
#29
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fort Wayne Indiana USA
Posts: 574
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
Last spring at a 3D shoot; heard a "dry fire", turned in time to see a shooter at the forth station reaching for his face. A Carbon Express shattered at the fletching end upon release. Looked like a kitten had scratched his cheek. Later while talking with him he said that he didn't check for damage prior to shooting. So the injury, while mild, was his fault not the arrows.
As for the debate on carbon vs. aluminum, both have advantages and disadvantages. With that in mind I just ask myself 'what's the difference and does it really even matter?'
It's a personal preference choice, I'm perfectly happy with my setup so why change.
Shoot often - Hunt always
As for the debate on carbon vs. aluminum, both have advantages and disadvantages. With that in mind I just ask myself 'what's the difference and does it really even matter?'
It's a personal preference choice, I'm perfectly happy with my setup so why change.
Shoot often - Hunt always
02-07-2003, 01:54 PM
#30
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rochester, MN USA
Posts: 107
RE: It'll be a cold day in he....
Gforce, I just think we have been so brainwashed by the manufacturers into thinking that carbons are indestructible...so why bother checking! Not smart, but I have to admit I can count the number of times I have checked them prior to shooting on about two fingers...that is until I had one explode!
Chad
Chad