Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I was just wandering for those of you who shoot aluminum, why do you stay with it? I went to carbon two years ago and I like it better for a couple of reasons: 1) they don't bend, I've shot them through deer and hit rocks with no damage to the arrow. 2) they're faster and lighter. Just wanted to know other people haven't switched.

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I switched a couple years ago, will NEVER go back to aluminum.

If I ain't huntin',I'm trappin',If I ain't trappin',I'm fishin'
If I ain't fishin',I'm wishin'!

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

A few reasons I still use aluminum.

1. I still like to keep the weight of the arrow at 9 or 10 grains per pound pulled. Just more accurate for me.

2. I like to use heavy broadheads (150-190 grain), about the only arrow that I have found to work very well with the setup are 2419's or 2613's. FOC is right around 14%. Again, more accurate for me.

3. I like to be able to get four helical fletchings on the shaft to stablize broadhead flight

4. More KE downrange

5. I like to be able to pull arrows out of my 3-d targets

From my experience, I just have not found any carbons to fly very well with my fixed bladed cut on contact broadheads.

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Well, I switched to carbons but keep aluminums for my back up bow. It's an older PSE and is noisy if you fire those light weight things in it. I call my back up my buffalo killer. XX78 Super Slams, 525 grains at 252 fps. Great penetration, K.E., cheaper and quieter. I'll keep it that way too. Lots of reasons to use aluminum.

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

This same question came up on the 29th last month in a thread titled 'Reasons?' and this is what I posted there:

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I can tune my bow to an aluminum arrow in less than 15 minutes and have it as good as it can get. I've spent HOURS tweaking around on carbons and not had them tune in. I can usually just screw ANY broadhead, on and have it spin true. And if it doesn't spin true, it's VERY easy to reposition the insert. With carbons, it's always been a chore for me to get broadheads to spin true, and most of the time there are only a few in each dozen that will do it. So, I can be hunt ready in minutes with aluminum vs too many hours of wasted time, tweaking with carbons.

My 2315's and 2317's weigh 100-150 grains more than the carbons I've tried. They make my bows much more pleasant to shoot - quieter, less shock and vibration. The heavier weight doesn't stress the cables and string as much, so less creep and less retuning and less frequent replacement. I lose 30 fps or so due to the weight, but I feel the gains in other areas are worth it.

Durability with my arrows is not quite as good as carbon maybe, but it's not far behind. Most of the arrows that do get bent, I can easily restraighten to factory tolerances with my arrow straightener. I've spent far more money on carbon than aluminum over the past 5 years and have yet to find any carbon arrows that shoot good for me. So, aluminum is cheaper for me over the long run.

My philosophy for hunting is, if I can't get within 30 yards of an animal, I have not earned the right to draw my bow. Trajectory differences between carbon and aluminum inside 30 yards are practically nil. For 3D, I have to be a bit more precise in my yardage estimates than carbon shooters but that's okay. Once I figured out that I didn't HAVE to win each tournament I entered, I started enjoying them more. And I still pick up an occasional trophy.

Penetration, I have no practical basis for comparison. All I know for sure is aluminum has never failed me and I have never been able to get carbons tuned up good enough for me to even consider hunting with them. As for how far carbon penetrates 3D targets vs aluminum, I've explained, in depth, many times on this forum why I feel trying to equate penetration in foam rubber to penetration on a living animal is a flawed idea.

However, since carbons do penetrate deeper in foam, and since the extra speed generates enough heat to weld them in, that brings up the primary reason I prefer aluminum. I don't have to smear on soaps, oils, ointments, lotions, potions or unguents to lubricate my arrows, nor do I have to wrestle with 3D targets to reclaim my property. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Add in less strain on the bow and better longevity for the bow and accessories (not too important for guys that have to have the hottest new bow on the market every year, but it's vital for me), the fact that aluminum causes less frustration and more enjoyment, and it shouldn't be too hard to understand why I don't mess with carbon any more.



Edited by - Arthur P on 02/03/2003 10:18:16

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

BobCo and Arthur P spelled the reasons out nice! Besides &quot;I like em, alot&quot;.

&quot;Semper Fi&quot;

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I guess my main reason is that I have never been told a good reason to switch. I am not a speed freak, could care less about speed.

Plus, I have never liked the warning that accomponied the carbons. You know the one that says if the arrow breaks don't consume any meat from that area. Why would I want to throw away a nice piece of shoulder meat because of carbon splinters. I know, I know....it takes a lot to break them, but you can't tell me that it don't happen.

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RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Cause they kill the deer when I shoot them.
I don't bend/break many so they do last me a long time. THey are cheap. My bow is already tuned for them. I get preformance that hasn't let me down yet. I see no reason to fix what isn't broken.

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I've been killing deer with aluminum arrows for years and see no reason to switch. I'm happy with 'em. I'm sure that carbons are as good as anyone says but I guess I'm just set in my ways <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I can't afford carbons <img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>



&quot;Hey ya'll, watch this&quot;

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I guess the main reason is I still have a lot of new aluminium arrows that I bought on sale . I will try something else when i use the aluminium up ,but that could be awhile .

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

So I can find them with my metal detector<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>.

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Like others have said; cost, time, and I don't have to change my string every year. There is NO noise from my bow that you can hear (a deer maybe) at a distance of 5 feet or more.

My shots are only 20 yards or less, so it wouldn't be worth it to me to change.

FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!

What if the &quot;Hokey Pokey&quot; really is what it's all about?

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

You guys make me feel special<img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle> I must be an arrow tuning machine <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Once and a while I shoot Alum. just to remind myself what SSSSLLLOOOOOOOWWWWW is. <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Then I pull them out of my 3d target to remind myself what the word BENT means <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

Then I shoot them again to reaquaint myself with the term FLYERS <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
2) they're faster and lighter

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


Without going into the scientific explanation that carbon flys milliseconds faster than aluminum by material.....CARBON ARROWS ARE NOT FASTER BECAUSE THEY ARE CARBON.....THEY ARE FASTER BECAUSE THEY ARE LIGHTER.. TAKE TWO ARROWS, ONE CARBON AND ONE ALUMINUM OF THE SAME WEIGHT, YOU'LL GET THE SAME SPEED. Okay, I'm done yelling...lol

I suppose it's a pet peeve of mine to hear someone say that carbon arrows are faster without explaining that is only so because they arel lighter. You can get the same stiffness as an aluminum arrow in a lighter weight because of the composition of material of the arrow.

I buy the reason of stiffness, the gain in speed because of the drop in weight, the durability factor but not the &quot;they are faster&quot; theory.

When considering carbons, do yourself a favor and go heavy as you can. You'll still get the speed, the penetration will be better and durability the same.....

And oh, I still bounce between carbon and aluminum and am currently shooting ACC's, Aluminum/Carbon Composite....and I've killed animals with all 3, won tournaments with all 3 and none is better than the other, it comes down to personal preference, pocketbook and what's on stock for most.

<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>

<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

No, R-A... You get tired of flattery and shoot them to remind yourself what the term ARCHery means.

Why are ya bending your arrows? Don'tcha know how to pull arrows out of a target??

Flyers with aluminum? You mean carbon keeps arrows in a group for people that don't know how to shoot? NO WONDER they're so darn popular!

<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>





Edited by - Arthur P on 02/03/2003 21:53:49

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Rob: Sorry for hitting your sensitive spot but I'm just a bow hack not a professional. This question wasn't meant to ruffle anyones feathers I was just curious. For those of you that mention cost I paid only $5 more for a dozen Easton Carbon Aeros Excels as for Easton XX78's.

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

After years of shooting aluminum, I switched to carbon for a couple years, but I switched back to aluminum again years ago. In addition to cost, there's a fear factor involved too. . .

An acquaintance of mine showed me pictures of a friend of his who shot a carbon arrow that he didn't know had a split in it. It literally <u>exploded</u> upon release and sent HUNDREDS of carbon splinters into his forearm, wrist and hand. He has had to endure numerous surgeries to remove the splinters and still cannot shoot normally. I've never heard of a similar problem with carbon, but I have heard several other stories about carbon.

And remember--I DID used to shoot carbon.

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Arthur,

You are 100% correct, Alums put the Arch into Archery.. LOL

You are also correct about the grouping capabilities of carbons, the more you shooting stinks, the tighter they group.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I have also heard of a carbon arrow breaking and going into someones arm. That has to hurt. Be sure to inspect them carefully after each shot.

&quot;Treat every gun as if it were loaded and every loaded person as if they have a gun.&quot; WThunter

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

My compound/Al setup works fine. Ain't broke = don't fix it...

My longbow shoots wood better than Al, Never tried the carbon for it, never expect to.

~Will Hunt For Food~

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Gutshot, fear not, no feathers ruffled, just making a bold statement to the facts.

<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>

<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Actually in my case I don't &quot;still&quot; shoot aluminums. I started with carbons and switched to aluminums. They are better arrows for the money. They are not always cheaper, like say super slam selects or X7's cost as much as average carbons do. But the tolerances and quality of the arrow from shaft to shaft is much better. I feel in order to get carbons that rival them you would have to spend close to $100 dozen.

Sure they can bend if your not careful with them, but have seen some poeple mess up some carbons in the same manor. And if you think a carbon is either straight or broken, you are sadly mistaken. I have seen quite a few that are warped or cracked from miss handleing or glancing off a target. I will admit that it takes much more doing with a carbon than an aluminum, but it happens. They also wear out in spine after a while because of the way they are made, that is if they are right when you take them out of the box to begin with. It is not uncommon for a few out of a dozen to not be right before you even shoot them. I personally have never worn a carbon out that I can tell, but I have heard it can be done buy guys much smarter than I am. I do have a few that are warped from wrenching on them too hard to get them out of my wood backstop.

Paul

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Paul,
Wood backstop? or bedroom wall<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Sorry brother...I couldn't pass that up!<img src=icon_smile_evil.gif border=0 align=middle>

Trushot }}------&gt;

Edited by - trushot_archer on 02/04/2003 19:26:16

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

i shoot good groups with my aluminum arrows i see no reason to switch

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Having to fight with them each time they are pulled from a target or else having to slather them with KY Jelly before each shot is reason enough not to use carbons. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I just visited Eastons website and they have a page full of warnings for carbon arrows, yet none for aluminum. Why is that? Because aluminum is safer!

FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!

What if the &quot;Hokey Pokey&quot; really is what it's all about?

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I gotta go with what IL_BOW_MAN said!! I have used carbons to & I was'nt overly impressed. Just my Opinion though!!:)

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Man Kelly, I had almost forgot about that one. Maybe I was blocking it from my memory. Actually that was an aluminum I did that with I think. And by the way, two finger removal, I didn't have to pull at all! I wonder how much penitration I would have got if the computer desk was not on the otherside of the wall? I am glad I didn't have your bowtech!! We probably wouldn't be talking on the computer right now.

Paul

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Hey Thundermug,
Your sitting 12-25 feet up a tree in the snow,sleet,rain and wind trying to shoot a metal stick on which the end is a razor honed to it's highest potential...and your worried about carbon fiber?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

It really is personal preference now isn't it guys, ya'll can argue the paint off the wall, but it comes down to what your comfortable and confident with.

Hey Paul,
I think of that story every time I draw indoors now!

Good shootin' everyone...

Trushot }}------>

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

trushot archer

1st of all you won't catch me in the rain sleet snow wind combo. I'm allergic to cold weather, thats why I live in Florida!



FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!

What if the &quot;Hokey Pokey&quot; really is what it's all about?

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I suppose I'll shut up than Thunder!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

BTW that &quot;Hokey Pokey&quot; thing CRACKS ME UP!

Trushot }}------>

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Yeah, I liked it too. I first saw it at a BMW garage I rewired.

FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!

What if the &quot;Hokey Pokey&quot; really is what it's all about?

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I just some game tracker carbons today, switching from easton 2317's alluminum. I have to say there is give and take on both sides of this debate. the flight of the carbon is by far faster 30 fps for me to be exact, and a flatter shooting arrow. we know the weight is the real reason but if carbon is the type that gives you this low wieght, fast, flat flying arrow then that is why I went with it and those are the good things I have found thus far. Now for the bad,. my bow is a little louder, was a tad bit more difficult to get the groups tight but once I did thats where they stayed.

I figure it like this, If i can get that much more speed and still group up tight, then the slight more noise and bi annual bow adjustments are worth it. alluminums bend and need replacing more often , but strings replacement annually and bow adjustments annually with carbons.. all balances out to me..

I'll stay with the faster, flatter flyer.

one more thought,, the deer is going to hear any bow shoot, but the arrow getting there before he reacts is where speed plays the roll.

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I shoot aluminum because that is what I have always shot. I have shot carbons, only because a friend gave me a dozen ICS hunters I shot one deer with them out of a recurve good penatration for only 45lbs. The deer went 40 yards and went down. The arrow broke in half when the deer fell on it but a aluminum arrow would of bent or broke in half to. It is all personal preference. If we all shot the same thing the archery companys would go out of business

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> one more thought,, the deer is going to hear any bow shoot, but the arrow getting there before he reacts is where speed plays the roll. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Without allowing for wind drag... Arrow A @ 280 fps will go 30 yards in .321 second. Arrow B @ 250 fps will go 30 yards in .360 second. I'd rather have the quieter bow, gambling on keeping the deer from reacting at all instead of gambling that 39 milliseconds will make up for the extra noise.


But, not all bows give extra noise with carbons. Like Silentassassin says, if your bow makes noise with lightweight carbons, then you sinply need to buy a different bow. (Actually, after exhaustive research, I've found that a dozen heavy aluminum arrows is much less expensive than a new bow.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>)

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

Some of you guys need to broaden your horizons and start reading a larger diversity of posts. Read the posts on Bowtech Patriot and the Mathews LX and the Hoyt Cybertec (yes they are still making compounds) you could read reviews about theses &quot;New Fangled Contraptions&quot; and how they already shoot quieter with 250 gr. arrow than the bows of 5 or 6 years ago did with an 800 gr. arrow. You read about new innovations such as parrallel limb design and read about the vibration disipating characteristics of this design. Then you could read about sandtrap limb pockets and the vibration deadening effects of the sand trap etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Without allowing for wind drag... Arrow A @ 280 fps will go 30 yards in .321 second. Arrow B @ 250 fps will go 30 yards in .360 second. I'd rather have the quieter bow, gambling on keeping the deer from reacting at all instead of gambling that 39 milliseconds will make up for the extra noise. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote> I would also be willing to gamble that my Patriot with a 400gr. is as quiet if not quieter than whatever compound that you are shooting is with a 800 gr. arrow. Heavy arrows don't simply wave a magic wand and make noise go away. If your bow is noisey and you shoot a 900 gr arrow and mine is quiet and I shoot a 400 gr. arrow then the quiet bow with the 400 gr. arrow may be even quieter than a noisier bow.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

I replied to &quot;It'll be a cold day in ...&quot; with the question I asked myself regarding the carbon vs. aluminum deal. &quot;What's the difference and does it really even matter?&quot;

Wood shafted arrows have taken more game than either. Heck, 1/3 of my archery deer harvest were along with my first gobbler and my only elk. Hopefully there will be more in my future.

Make your choice and be happy with it. I am with mine, so again, why change?





Shoot often - Hunt always

RE: Why do you still shoot Aluminum????
 

http://www.archeryhistory.com/compou...70/rigid78.jpg

Rigid bow, 1977. Parallel limb technology is a new innovation?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

The difference is, with my aluminum arrows, I don't NEED to pay extra money for sand traps, rubber whatsits, other vibration damping hooey, and old, failed ideas that have been revived from the grave, represented as new technology and given a fancy new name .

Edited by - Arthur P on 02/07/2003 13:18:05