Gross vs Net
 

What is the point of a net score?

A buck grows what he grows and nothing is perfect in nature so why make all these deductions on antlers ?

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I've been trying to figure that out for a long time. Makes zero sense.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I don't know either. Why a drying period???

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I 100% agree. Nets are for fishing, soccer, hockey, basketball, etc......they have no place in the whitetail world in my opinion

RE: Gross vs Net
 

There is no point IMO.

I prob started out as a pissin' match. "My buck is bigger than yours because..."

But I have no idea.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I think the intent was to recognize symmetry and perfection but I personally dont agree with the idea of subtracting from the score.

As CarlieP said: A buck grows what he grows!

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Another thumbs down for deductions here, especially in scoring a non-typical! They deduct for differences in the mainframe while adding theinches that shouldn't be there at all anyway, howredundant is that!??While Iappreciate the beauty in a perfectly symmetrical rack, I'd prefer more antler inchesover symmetry any day of the week. Anytime I see a deer harvest published, I only pay attention to the gross score as that more accurately tells me what he actually looked like.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

There is a guy who owns an archery shop about 30 minutes from my house who has started his own scoring system that has no deductions. In order to be "typical" one side cannot be x-inches (I can't remember) different than the other. If it is it is just scored as a non-typical, but there are still no deductions. I really like that system. P&Y and B&C scoring systems are junk. The head of P&Y's score keeping actually stated that the more symmetric the rack, the better rack it was. Can you imagine that? Actually thinking that one rack is better than another. That is like judging snow flakes.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Gross score gives them credit where credit is due, thats forsure. Net was originally and still should be intended for horns, not antlers.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I never was to keen on the net score. I can see the drying period.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Not a fan of net score. I understand the intent, but think it is apoor way to give you an idea of the rack size.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I am a B&C scorer and a P&Y scorer and what we are taught by the hierarchy is that the intent of the scoring is to recognize the accomplishment of the animal and not the accomplishment of the hunter or owner of the antlers or horns. That is why all antlers and horns can be measured and recorded even road kill. When you think in line with this then you realize that both gross and net scores are important.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

The animal grew X inches of bone. That is his accomplishment. He shouldn't be 'deducted', or otherwiselooked down uponbecause one side is bigger than the other. That is simply nature at work.The desire of 'perfect symmetry' is a flaw of modern man in my opinion. If we are to follow the gospel of P&Y scoring,that is perect symmetry is the goal, then a non-typical such as the Beatty buck or a double-beam buck should actually be an undesireable harvest! Makes no sense in my world.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Forgive me if I misunderstand....but how does subtracting what an animal grows important?

You're right, it has nothing to do with the hunter. But, what P&Y and B&Care doing is an injustice to the animal.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I have never understood why we subtract from the animal.

Can you explain the reasoning for me? I would just like to know

RE: Gross vs Net
 

The accomplishment of the animal was to grow what is on his head,no matter how it turned out.

Net is a joke.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Makes no sense to me either..........if you are recognizing the accomplishments of the animal you would only record the gross score.............but it really makes no difference to me as I don't enter my deer in any record books except my own;)

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Yep nets are for fish!!! Walt

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Jayzus you guys, it's just a number, get over it! Net score is an indication of symetry, which is widely percieved as a desirable charachteristic. Nature is not perfect, so a high net score indicates a rare specimen, which is desirable.

It bugsme that nobody gets too excited about field dressed weight. To me, that's almost as much a trophy indicator as rack score.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

What Geronimo said has allot of good truth to it. When this scoring system was made up it was based on a perfect symmetrical rack. The point to it was to give credit to the most perfect typical rack. We all know there isn't a perfect rack but it is what it is and its something your all going to have to live with until or if it ever changes. There's many more important things to be worrying about in bow hunting then a score of a rack.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Allot of people are now weighing there animals live weight which makes no sence to me! Its pretty easy to figure out why most do it.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Say no to the net!

RE: Gross vs Net
 

They had a great article on this in the Fall edition of Pope and Young Newsletter/Magazine.

The people who came up with the scoring system did so to rank how "perfect" a rack is according to their vision, which was one wide but not too wide, and symetrical tines, and mass.

There is no such thing as a gross score, only the net counts. It is not listed on te\he B & C or P&Y score sheet anywhere. Only the net value. We only invented the term gross because it gives total antler lenght regardless of symmetry.

The net score is the ONLY way you can realistically compare two racks.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I agree with you pretty much on everything you said. That article was by Glen Hisey in the P@Y News letter, it was a damn good one! I talked with him on the 26th of December when I had my buck scored from a P@Y measurer down in Chatfield. Glen told me straight out he gets some pretty threatening phone calls on this, how pathetic can someone be to go as far as threaten someone over ways the P@Y scores there racks. Glen and his son Kevin and his wife run the P@Y museum in Chatfield Minnesota, they are some great people! By the way B@C now puts the gross score in the books along with the net score. The Net score still is the only one that counts. I didn't know that either until Fraley (One of the guys on HNI Forum, He's a good guy!) told me about the change of B@C doing both, it started back in August I guess.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

This is one of the main reasons why I will probably never enter any of my bucks.

I understand that you have to come up with a way to measure a deers antler size and for he most part I don't have a problem with what dimensions are measured: beam length, inside spread, tine length andcircumferences throughout the length of the antler. It may not be perfect but it pretty much covers it.

Where I have the problem is (like most of us) in the deductions. I think the problem is that a long time ago someone thought"symmetrical" is what everyone believes to be a perfect rack.

I for one, don't agree with that.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I think it was done so they could have a category for typical and non typical with some guidelines. If your buck has over so may inches of deductions then you can add them to the score and submit it as non typical. I mean you can't really say a buck is non typical because it has a 3" kicker off it's G2.It kinda makes it fair that way as far as having guidelines for what would be considered a non typical buck. I wish they would list the gross and net score though. That way you could see the numbers as far as how big the buck really is. If I remember right you can always enter it in the Buckmasters records. I don't think they deduct anything!...LOL

Darrall

RE: Gross vs Net
 

:eek:

RE: Gross vs Net
 

It is the Pope & Young CLUB and that being the keyword they have their own set of rules just like any other club would. If you do not like P&Y use Buckmasters scoring system and enter it there.
Do I agree with this no but it's the Club's rules plain and simple.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

But weight is much more variable than antler score based on geography. A 200 lbbuck may be really big for a state like Texas or Arkansas, where a 200 lb buck in Iowa or Canada is no big deal. The weights would have to be relative to the area the buck was harvested.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I hear tell they even have a secret hand shake.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

lol, I know where you are coming from John. At least Boone & Crockett now will include the gross score in the books along with the net score to get the whole picture.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I don't worry about net, just gross, but since P&Y and B&C are the most recognized scoring methods and record book holders we are at their mercy in terms of scoring methods. So, if you want to be in the club, you have to follow their rules. Otherwise, just look at gross.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I'll throw a couple more in there.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Guys, FRALEY (Edit to include HuntingBry:D)is right.......It's a club and if you choose to join it then you should probably be ready to abide by their scoring rules. If you don't agree you can either try to get them changed (good luck) or don't join and continue (as I do) going by gross score.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Pffft. There is infact a gross score on both scoresheets titled "Total" or "Subtotal" depending on which you are referring. That would be the the "total" or "gross" score before the human factor of nitpicking deductions in which we penalize the animal based on parts that those organizations have controversially deemed "unwanted" or "undesirable".
And to state that you can't realistically compare racks based on gross score couldn't be any further from the truth.The gross score give a much better mental picture of how big the rack actually was while net score greatly diminish the score of an otherwise truly giant buck.
To penalize a non-typical buck for differences in the G tines, yet reward him for a one sided drop tine is borderline ridiculous. Why is some of his bone "good" and scored while some is "bad" and deducted?? Makes no sense.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

If you don't like it don't join.
It's pretty simple I think.
I don't think posting about it on here is going to get them to change it...LOL
Have Buckmasters score it.

Darrall

RE: Gross vs Net
 

I enter all my bucks into P&Y. I prefer gross score as it more closely describes the size of the rack. I use the numbers only as a descripter. The net score, for me is only a means to make the book. When I am describing a huge buck that I saw to a friend I always use the gross.

In this pic, the buck on the right grosses 126 4/8 and nets125 4/8. quite symetrical. It field dressed at 160. Pretty deer. Gross, net what's the difference?

The buckinthe center grosses 138 and nets 116 as a 6 pointer. It actually has 9 points and field dresses at 220. He was the boss of the area and a real bull. On this one I think that gross better describes him, especially if you're talking over the phone!!

Which would you prefer? ................. I liked them both, so I shot them.[8D]

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Hey, I think a buck grew what he grew. Net and a drying period are, in my mind, not important and I have always, and will always score my buck as what he grew. No rack is better than another because of the symmetry, or lack of symmetry, that they have. I hate that B&C and P&Y score deer as their net score.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Remember, B&C and P&Y scoring methods are to establish standards for measurement. But in our eyes as hunters we should follow the advice of Greg and use the gross and net scores accordingly. when someone asks me about a buck of mine I always quote the gross score because it maximizes the animals antler and horn growth and also maximizes my accomplishment and good fortune.

RE: Gross vs Net
 

Tired of PnYoung n Boone & Crockett

Try the BTR system by Buckmasters. It called the fullcredit system and I've been a scorer for them for 13 years and I'll tell ya what. Every inch is counted and each deer is in a class of it's own % . You can score it imediately ,so no drying time is needed,the only thing they don't include in the score is the inside spread,in my mind I always thought this was a bunch of bull anyways as it's a measurement of air not antler. So if you got a deer with a 12 inch droptine and are ticked off cause it's going to lose inches in deductions,give the BTR system a shot. You'll like it specially if your buck has all type of crap hanging here n their. LOL So you guys that are tired of complaining about the other scoring systems ,give BTR a look see.
Rocky