Location--Location--Location
01-09-2008, 10:30 AM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
Posts: 6,679
RE: Location--Location--Location
ORIGINAL: atlasman
Not to hard to tell the seasons are over in most places
Just a matter of time before the scent lok and whisker biscuit threads start popping up [8D]
So we are debating location again huh??..........this has been going on for ages and will never stop I'm sure. After so many years of having this same discussion it is abundantly clear that what rubs everyone the wrong way is the hidden message in the debate..........those in prime locals feel slighted by the notion that their accomplishents are being diluted because of the suggestion that THEY are not the key to "success"...........and those in less friendly locals feel slighted because of the suggestion that THEY are the key to their "lack of success".This will probably never change.
Maybe the problem is the definition of "success" I shot two 3.5 year olds and one4.5 year old this year.........the 4.5 had the smallest rack of them all........+/- 100" and the other from NY is under 115" I'm sure. I shoot two deer that age in Kansas, Iowa, or Illinois and they would be 140"150" at least.........that is common sense based on what people describe as the "average" big deer for their areas. That is genetics and nutrition more then anything else.......so to compare deer based on racks only is about as useful as a rubber crutch. However, no one takes pictures of a deer's teeth or mounts jaw bones so I guess it's natural..........boys will be boys.
Here are some things to consider when wondering how important location is to putting a big rack on the ground.
In 20 years of hunting NY I have never even seen a deer that would make P+Y........3 days into an out of state hunt I had one on the ground.........you mean to tell me that is a coincidence?? Obviously my skills as a hunter were not the obstacle.
For somewhere in the ballpark of $2,500-$3,000 you can see and have legit shots to kill big deer EVERY year with your bow..........these are fair chase hunts. If you are average to above average in your skills you will have more heads then walls to hang them on. As the price goes up so do the rack sizes. $5,000 and 150" minimums are not uncommon out there.
When people pay the above quoted price it isn't to hunt the coast lines...........why?
Does anyone here REALLY think they couldn't kill a big deer on Hunsucker's land?? (Please don't turn this into an insult against Michael because it isn't)
Why does everyone want to know where greg hunts if location doesn't matter??
Why do greg and his friends (and everyone else with a brain) keep their mouth shut when they have a great place to hunt??
If someone called you tomorrow and offered you a lifelong chance to hunt Pike County would you be happy or sad??
Why do people guard their land so tightly if location doesn't matter??
Would POSTED signs even exist if location didn't matter??
Why do guys spend tens of thousands of dollars on hunting land??
Why are out of state licenses more in states with higher concentrations of big bucks??
Why is it that those who say location doesn't matter are always speaking from a location most would kill to be allowed to hunt??........the opposite of course being true as well.
Location matters...........A LOT.............Would greg and troy kill big deer wherever they lived?? Of course they would. Would their walls look different if they lived in Tampa??.........of course they would. Would I have bigger deer on the wall if I lived and hunted in the corn belt??.......of course I would.
You still have to know how to hunt and find these deer.........trying to find one in Florida is not the same as trying to find one in Kansas, I don't know how anyone could argue that point.
In closing.........I mentioned a few names in this post only because everyone knows them and nothing more. I am only gonna say this once.........I have nothing but the HIGHEST amount of respect for these guys as hunters and men and IN NO WAY included them in my write up to diminish what they have accomplished. I view them as fine hunters and excellent examples of the good in this sport.......I could have easily used other names in place of theirs so absolutely nothing personal should be implied.
I just find this discussion very interesting.
Not to hard to tell the seasons are over in most places
Just a matter of time before the scent lok and whisker biscuit threads start popping up [8D]So we are debating location again huh??..........this has been going on for ages and will never stop I'm sure. After so many years of having this same discussion it is abundantly clear that what rubs everyone the wrong way is the hidden message in the debate..........those in prime locals feel slighted by the notion that their accomplishents are being diluted because of the suggestion that THEY are not the key to "success"...........and those in less friendly locals feel slighted because of the suggestion that THEY are the key to their "lack of success".This will probably never change.
Maybe the problem is the definition of "success" I shot two 3.5 year olds and one4.5 year old this year.........the 4.5 had the smallest rack of them all........+/- 100" and the other from NY is under 115" I'm sure. I shoot two deer that age in Kansas, Iowa, or Illinois and they would be 140"150" at least.........that is common sense based on what people describe as the "average" big deer for their areas. That is genetics and nutrition more then anything else.......so to compare deer based on racks only is about as useful as a rubber crutch.
However, no one takes pictures of a deer's teeth or mounts jaw bones so I guess it's natural..........boys will be boys.Here are some things to consider when wondering how important location is to putting a big rack on the ground.
In 20 years of hunting NY I have never even seen a deer that would make P+Y........3 days into an out of state hunt I had one on the ground.........you mean to tell me that is a coincidence?? Obviously my skills as a hunter were not the obstacle.
For somewhere in the ballpark of $2,500-$3,000 you can see and have legit shots to kill big deer EVERY year with your bow..........these are fair chase hunts. If you are average to above average in your skills you will have more heads then walls to hang them on. As the price goes up so do the rack sizes. $5,000 and 150" minimums are not uncommon out there.
When people pay the above quoted price it isn't to hunt the coast lines...........why?
Does anyone here REALLY think they couldn't kill a big deer on Hunsucker's land?? (Please don't turn this into an insult against Michael because it isn't)
Why does everyone want to know where greg hunts if location doesn't matter??
Why do greg and his friends (and everyone else with a brain) keep their mouth shut when they have a great place to hunt??
If someone called you tomorrow and offered you a lifelong chance to hunt Pike County would you be happy or sad??
Why do people guard their land so tightly if location doesn't matter??
Would POSTED signs even exist if location didn't matter??
Why do guys spend tens of thousands of dollars on hunting land??
Why are out of state licenses more in states with higher concentrations of big bucks??
Why is it that those who say location doesn't matter are always speaking from a location most would kill to be allowed to hunt??........the opposite of course being true as well.
Location matters...........A LOT.............Would greg and troy kill big deer wherever they lived?? Of course they would. Would their walls look different if they lived in Tampa??.........of course they would. Would I have bigger deer on the wall if I lived and hunted in the corn belt??.......of course I would.
You still have to know how to hunt and find these deer.........trying to find one in Florida is not the same as trying to find one in Kansas, I don't know how anyone could argue that point.
In closing.........I mentioned a few names in this post only because everyone knows them and nothing more. I am only gonna say this once.........I have nothing but the HIGHEST amount of respect for these guys as hunters and men and IN NO WAY included them in my write up to diminish what they have accomplished. I view them as fine hunters and excellent examples of the good in this sport.......I could have easily used other names in place of theirs so absolutely nothing personal should be implied.
I just find this discussion very interesting.
01-09-2008, 10:33 AM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: May 2005
Location: One mile east of West Podunk Tx
Posts: 5,973
RE: Location--Location--Location
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
I don't know they make it pretty easy in Texas to kill big ones.
So does this mean I don't suck because I've never made a trip to the taxidermist? [8D]
01-09-2008, 10:33 AM
#14
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Michigan/Ohio
Posts: 11,682
RE: Location--Location--Location
ORIGINAL: Charlie P
A guy I know used to go to Alberta worked in a camp and would come back with some huge racks every year. Well now he has a house and family and too many responsibilities to go to Alberta every year but consistently kills huge racks for our area every year. Stilla really good hunter but the location he gets to hunt has changed.
A guy I know used to go to Alberta worked in a camp and would come back with some huge racks every year. Well now he has a house and family and too many responsibilities to go to Alberta every year but consistently kills huge racks for our area every year. Stilla really good hunter but the location he gets to hunt has changed.
Can a hunter kill the best bucks for his location!!
Can a hunter find a better locationis part of the puzzle as well
I think it is over looked as well. Guys like Gregh who do not own a property have a nack for finding those great spots in good location states. Joe Brooks best ground is 7 acers
Take a look at Atlas he took a gamble and changed locations this year
The new wrinkle and Atlas other favorite topic is making your current location better
I bet if Jeff keeps up what he is doing. He will shoot bigger bucks, not better, but bigger Look at Jeff success as an earlier bowhunter, It was JEFF who found those spots
01-09-2008, 10:43 AM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 7,208
RE: Location--Location--Location
Can a hunter kill the best bucks for his location!!
Can a hunter find a better locationis part of the puzzle as well
Can a hunter find a better locationis part of the puzzle as well
I feel ones effort to FIND good places to hunt, (without paying for them) is as commendable as the effort used in actually scouting and hunting those places.
01-09-2008, 10:47 AM
#16
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY
Posts: 4,668
RE: Location--Location--Location
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
Exactly....though I've never said it or implied such.
You and I don't agree often....but your post is spot on. Every bit of it.
those in prime locals feel slighted by the notion that their accomplishents are being diluted because of the suggestion that THEY are not the key to "success"
You and I don't agree often....but your post is spot on. Every bit of it.
We are just as guilty on this side of the fence.............some feel slighted to varying degrees when their 100" 3.5 year old bucks receive less fanfare then the 130"-140" shot in other areas........even though they are both what is considered a "good deer" for each area.
It's all about perceived accomplishment........I didn't care for your qualifying of my deer this year as a "gun kill" anymore then you cared for my reference to yours as a "suburbs kill". We all know how hard we have to work for our kills and any perceived attempt to lessen that feat is usually not taken well.
I can say with little doubt in my mind that if I hunted the corn belt I would not feel too good about guys on the east coast implying the only reason I bag big deer is where I live..........because the opposite is certainly true.
Of course, the easiest solution to this problem is we all just stop taking childish jabs at each other but being here for so many years leaves little hope for that in my mind.
01-09-2008, 10:49 AM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: May 2005
Location: One mile east of West Podunk Tx
Posts: 5,973
RE: Location--Location--Location
ORIGINAL: rybohunter
I've been trying to say that I'm just not very eloquent.
I feel ones effort to FIND good places to hunt, (without paying for them) is as commendable as the effort used in actually scouting and hunting those places.
Can a hunter kill the best bucks for his location!!
Can a hunter find a better locationis part of the puzzle as well
Can a hunter find a better locationis part of the puzzle as well
I feel ones effort to FIND good places to hunt, (without paying for them) is as commendable as the effort used in actually scouting and hunting those places.
